Who will red shirt?

[BIGEZ321]

You're not getting it. Tad is recruiting above Stalzer already. Nothing against the kid, but redshirting him means he's taking a scholarship from a more talented player down the line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I get it and I agree wit ya. If he doesn't get better we don't really need him around. But if Tad sees something in him, maybe he redshirts.

 

[Buffnik]

I get it and I agree wit ya. If he doesn't get better we don't really need him around. But if Tad sees something in him, maybe he redshirts.

Everything you've said is valid. What makes the idea of redshirting Stalzer a logistic nightmare (and why it absolutely shouldn't happen) is that we already have 6 guys in our freshman class. Redshirting Stalzer now would bump that number to 7. We'd then have to redshirt 2 or 3 or the true freshmen in order to balance things out. It just doesn't work for the program.

 

[wyobuff]

Everything you've said is valid. What makes the idea of redshirting Stalzer a logistic nightmare (and why it absolutely shouldn't happen) is that we already have 6 guys in our freshman class. Redshirting Stalzer now would bump that number to 7. We'd then have to redshirt 2 or 3 or the true freshmen in order to balance things out. It just doesn't work for the program.

^^^ this. the class is already 6, we'd need to redshirt 2 from this class (and cant tag flash gordon or jenkins) so it has to be one of the incoming 4. After dustins performance in the pro-am, I doubt it'll be him.

Everyone seems to agree that king will get one of the Redshirts, and since dustin fills a team need at the 4, that leaves fletch or hopkins to take the other one.

So, which one will it be?

 

[Goose]

Why do we have to redshirt two?

 

[Hoops Fan]

There are 13 scholarship players ... the least talented on paper are Mills, Stalzer and Talton. So, if you play a 10 man rotation, that leaves these three with only token minutes. But, a rotation of the other 10 scholarship players splitting 200 minutes per game might be something like this; top six average 25 minutes (take up 150 minutes of the 200 minute game) that leaves 50 minutes for the last 4 guys (an average of 12.5 minutes per game (less maybe some garbage time when the other three and walk-ons play). This scenario won't change too much next year when Spencer exits and Collier comes in. But if a guy like King red shirted this year, he would be trading what is at best around 10 minutes a game now (arguably a lot less) for an extra year after the departure of guys who are now sophomores, when he would be bigger stronger and better. I agree with the comments so far that Tad will let the pecking order sort out and then suggest, but not force anyone to redshirt. If I were King, I would do it ... and possibly also Fletcher. I think that Tomas will be to big of an offensive factor to redshirt at this time and Hopkins will see some time point and possibly the 2, ahead of Stalzer and Talton . So, I am betting King redshirts and possibly Fletcher.

 

[mattrob]

I'm not convinced anyone needs to redshirt next year. Class balance is overrated, particularly in basketball, and tends to work itself out. I'd be pretty surprised if all 6 freshmen graduated from CU in 2016. Somebody's going to get buried on the depth chart, get injured or explode into an NBA prospect and declare early, transfer, etc. Just look at last year's class. Does anyone honestly believe XJ, Scott, Stalzer and Talton all graduate in 2015? If I was a betting man, I'd say the odds of all 4 graduating are probably less than the odds of only 1 of them graduating.

As for playing time, I think most here agree that the rotation will go at least 9, probably even 10 deep. I'm in the camp that thinks there's a good chance Mills sits the bench again this year, along with at least one of Talton and Stalzer. That leaves 11 (unless Nelson finds a role) and it wouldn't be all that surprising to see a couple of the freshmen fight for playing time, with Tad going with the hot hand for 8-10 minutes a game, a la Talton and Stalzer last year.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to see someone redshirt, but I just don't see where we HAVE to redshirt 1, and especially 2, of the freshmen next year.

 

[J-R-K]

If anyone is red-shirting why didn't we just add a transfer instead? If it's someone eligible to play right away we would have them this year whereas a red shirt would do nothing and then we could just add a new freshman in '14, I'm sure someone good given how Boyle has been recruiting. And if they have to sit out a year like a red-shirt they still will presumably be able to make more of an immediate impact then a red-shirt and are more of a sure thing, a freshman could bust. Yes I realize I sound like a broken record but I won't stop until everyone bows down to my superior wisdom and agrees.

 

[Buffnik]

If anyone is red-shirting why didn't we just add a transfer instead? If it's someone eligible to play right away we would have them this year whereas a red shirt would do nothing and then we could just add a new freshman in '14, I'm sure someone good given how Boyle has been recruiting. And if they have to sit out a year like a red-shirt they still will presumably be able to make more of an immediate impact then a red-shirt and are more of a sure thing, a freshman could bust. Yes I realize I sound like a broken record but I won't stop until everyone bows down to my superior wisdom and agrees.

You're impatient.

There is a lot to be said for building a program with guys who spend up to 5 years in the systems.

This is the only way CU can have an advantage over Arizona and UCLA. We can't out-recruit them. It will take a decade to get there - if it ever does. But what we can do is play Top 150 upperclassmen against their Top 20 freshmen. With that, we can beat them. It's basically taking the Gonzaga approach and doing it with better players than the Zags get.

Besides, Tad showing the interest in thinking 5 years ahead tells us a lot of good things about his professional plans for the future, no?

 

[Medford M.]

If anyone is red-shirting why didn't we just add a transfer instead? If it's someone eligible to play right away we would have them this year whereas a red shirt would do nothing and then we could just add a new freshman in '14, I'm sure someone good given how Boyle has been recruiting. And if they have to sit out a year like a red-shirt they still will presumably be able to make more of an immediate impact then a red-shirt and are more of a sure thing, a freshman could bust. Yes I realize I sound like a broken record but I won't stop until everyone bows down to my superior wisdom and agrees.

There was no one on the transfer market that fit our need for a big outside of three guys we weren't going to get.

I'll say one guy redshift, and the most likely is King. I'll add though that the CU boards are vastly under rating him just because he isn't a top 150 guy and didn't have offers. King is as good as anyone we signed. The film doesn't lie.

 

[J-R-K]

You're impatient.

There is a lot to be said for building a program with guys who spend up to 5 years in the systems.

This is the only way CU can have an advantage over Arizona and UCLA. We can't out-recruit them. It will take a decade to get there - if it ever does. But what we can do is play Top 150 upperclassmen against their Top 20 freshmen. With that, we can beat them. It's basically taking the Gonzaga approach and doing it with better players than the Zags get.

Besides, Tad showing the interest in thinking 5 years ahead tells us a lot of good things about his professional plans for the future, no?

You make it sound like these are mutually exclusive options-win now or win later. You can do both, have a team of mostly freshman recruits and mix in a transfer or two every year to fill holes and provide some instant impact and reliability. Why do I have to be patient to win? Is our team better off this year or in future years with Eli Stalzer or if we had instead used his scholarship to add a double-digit scoring transfer who would be playing for us the next two years?

 

[Buffnik]

You make it sound like these are mutually exclusive options-win now or win later. You can do both, have a team of mostly freshman recruits and mix in a transfer or two every year to fill holes and provide some instant impact and reliability. Why do I have to be patient to win? Is our team better off this year or in future years with Eli Stalzer or if we had instead used his scholarship to add a double-digit scoring transfer who would be playing for us the next two years?

Have we not been winning to an unprecedented degree?

Every year, there are probably a couple transfers who fit an immediate team need while also fitting in with the culture & systems. Tad has pursued those guys and should continue to do so. I'd love to see some success in that area. It's a piece to the puzzle.

Looking back over the past several years, transfers have benefited the program. Crawford won us a game (against Iowa State, iirc) and played well in some others, Relphorde won us that Okie Lite game (and was a great contributor for 2 years), Carlon led us to a Pac-12 title, Adams was key to some victories, and Chen was a great glue guy who started a bunch of games while providing leadership in some key wins.

No one here is opposed to bringing in transfers. But we trust Tad and like the way he is building the program. I much prefer the way he is doing it to what Altman has going on at Oregon. The level of success has been about the same for both in the short-term and I believe Tad's way is more stable with greater long-term upside. Whichever floats your boat, though. Neither way is "wrong".

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I seem to recall most of us being surprised when the 2 redshirts were announced last year. I have no clue what's gonna happen this year.

 

[Goose]

I'm sorry, but are we turning down double digit scorers that want to transfer to CU? Because JRK you keep talking about it like it's a fact, and I've heard nothing of the sort. I've heard of Tad pursuing numerous transfers, but we haven't always been able to land them. That's the game.

 

[Darth Snow]

I'm sorry, but are we turning down double digit scorers that want to transfer to CU? Because JRK you keep talking about it like it's a fact, and I've heard nothing of the sort. I've heard of Tad pursuing numerous transfers, but we haven't always been able to land them. That's the game.

You don't understand. They exist, and have gone to other schools. Therefore, they automatically (a) were realistically interested in Colorado; and (b) would have fit into CU's existing team/plan. Therefore, Tad has failed by not getting them to CU.

 

[Goose]

You don't understand. They exist, and have gone to other schools. Therefore, they automatically (a) were realistically interested in Colorado; and (b) would have fit into CU's existing team/plan. Therefore, Tad has failed by getting them to CU.

Oh.

My bad.

Thanks.

 

[Johnny Juzang]

King is the only one who really makes sense.

 

[jgisland]

2 things:

Can somebody tell me why anybody has to RS?

And I can't believe they extended Tad with his inability to land double digit transfers every year.......

 

[Buffnik]

2 things:

Can somebody tell me why anybody has to RS?

And I can't believe they extended Tad with his inability to land double digit transfers every year.......

No reason anyone has to redshirt. None at all.

With 6 freshmen, though, if they find that any of the 6 need some time in the weight room in order to play in the Pac-12 then we have the luxury of allowing him to redshirt this year the way we did with Gordon and Jenkins last year. If a guy doesn't make the rotation, I think he should consider the opportunity for that 5th year. "Star" in 2017 is better than "Scrub" in 2013, so it's a good trade.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I doubt any of us know if one of the 4 incoming frosh need the extra year of classroom and/or academic adjustment time.


At any rate, I trust Boyle and his staff to do what's best.

 

[rolandftw]

It's not that I think someone HAS to redshirt, but that just seems to be how Boyle's handled it in the past with Jenkins and Gordon. It's also what he's hinted could have happened to Dustin Thomas had Roberson returned for his senior season.

If you have players that are probably not going to be NBA talents, but are going to be very good contributors at the college level for 4 seasons... an extra year can definitely be useful. Obviously a lot of college coaches disagree, and would prefer to see their players get any kind of game action. CU is very loaded at the wing for the next couple seasons and there isn't enough minutes to go around if CU were to have a traditional 8-9 man rotation

Maybe we press a lot and give a lot of our freshmen 8-10 minutes to keep everyone fresh, but that would certainly go against the typical college rotation

 

[mattrob]

It's not that I think someone HAS to redshirt, but that just seems to be how Boyle's handled it in the past with Jenkins and Gordon. It's also what he's hinted could have happened to Dustin Thomas had Roberson returned for his senior season.

If you have players that are probably not going to be NBA talents, but are going to be very good contributors at the college level for 4 seasons... an extra year can definitely be useful. Obviously a lot of college coaches disagree, and would prefer to see their players get any kind of game action. CU is very loaded at the wing for the next couple seasons and there isn't enough minutes to go around if CU were to have a traditional 8-9 man rotation

Maybe we press a lot and give a lot of our freshmen 8-10 minutes to keep everyone fresh, but that would certainly go against the typical college rotation

Playing devils advocate, redshirting multiple highly-regarded freshmen is also very much against the grain in college basketball.

The problem with redshirting, to me, is this: the players who redshirt will be those least prepared to contribute. While it makes sense on the surface, all that you end up doing is widening the gap by giving an extra year of experience to the players who were already ahead of the pack. Considering the wings on the roster all have at least three years of eligibility remaining, there's a good chance a kid who redshirts this year would not see the court until at least their junior year. A lot of kids in that situation in other programs have seen the writing on the wall and transferred out before they ever saw significant time. In that case, the redshirt year really does not benefit the program, and I'd rather see a kid get the opportunity to prove his worth on the court his freshman year, albeit in limited minutes, and possibly help us win an extra game or two.

Last year, the individual situations for Gordon and Jenkins both made them good redshirt candidates, albeit for different reasons, but I don't see the same thing with this year's class. They all appear physically ready to play and, barring anyone having adjustment issues to college, just seem more prepared overall for the PAC 12 game.

 

[rolandftw]

Playing devils advocate, redshirting multiple highly-regarded freshmen is also very much against the grain in college basketball.

The problem with redshirting, to me, is this: the players who redshirt will be those least prepared to contribute. While it makes sense on the surface, all that you end up doing is widening the gap by giving an extra year of experience to the players who were already ahead of the pack. Considering the wings on the roster all have at least three years of eligibility remaining, there's a good chance a kid who redshirts this year would not see the court until at least their junior year. A lot of kids in that situation in other programs have seen the writing on the wall and transferred out before they ever saw significant time. In that case, the redshirt year really does not benefit the program, and I'd rather see a kid get the opportunity to prove his worth on the court his freshman year, albeit in limited minutes, and possibly help us win an extra game or two.

Last year, the individual situations for Gordon and Jenkins both made them good redshirt candidates, albeit for different reasons, but I don't see the same thing with this year's class. They all appear physically ready to play and, barring anyone having adjustment issues to college, just seem more prepared overall for the PAC 12 game.

I do agree that it is not the normal thing that most coaches do. But it does appear to at least be a consideration for Tad Boyle, and I do believe it will continue to be so going forward. I can't say for sure what specific reasons went into the Gordon and Jenkins redshirts. Some people have hinted that it had something to do with academics, but that is certainly not something that Boyle hinted at any point. I'm not close enough to the situation to know if Boyle was merely protecting a couple of his players or if it really came down to playing time.

I do think sometimes a player can be immensely talented but sometimes they need to work on something in particular to get minutes. Personally, I think very highly of Xavier Johnson and it wouldn't surprise me if he has the attention of NBA teams by the end of his junior year. Between him and Askia's graduation, I see playing time for everyone in our wing group by their sophomore (RS) or Junior (not redshirt year). While I may not necessarily agree with the idea of redshirting, I do think there are some advantages (as well as disadvantages) in doing so.

 

[mattrob]

I do agree that it is not the normal thing that most coaches do. But it does appear to at least be a consideration for Tad Boyle, and I do believe it will continue to be so going forward. I can't say for sure what specific reasons went into the Gordon and Jenkins redshirts. Some people have hinted that it had something to do with academics, but that is certainly not something that Boyle hinted at any point. I'm not close enough to the situation to know if Boyle was merely protecting a couple of his players or if it really came down to playing time.

I do think sometimes a player can be immensely talented but sometimes they need to work on something in particular to get minutes. Personally, I think very highly of Xavier Johnson and it wouldn't surprise me if he has the attention of NBA teams by the end of his junior year. Between him and Askia's graduation, I see playing time for everyone in our wing group by their sophomore (RS) or Junior (not redshirt year). While I may not necessarily agree with the idea of redshirting, I do think there are some advantages (as well as disadvantages) in doing so.

Overall, I think we're on the same page here. More than anything, I'm referring to the premise of the OP, and others who are talking about WHO will redshirt, not IF anyone will redshirt. Jenkins and Gordon were pretty unique situations and I do believe their redshirts were more about their own personal development, not playing time or rotation spots. While Tad may be more liberal with the use of redshirts than others, I think we need to be careful about assuming that last year is the new normal and we'll see multiple redshirts every year. That said, it wouldn't shock me at all if one of the freshmen did decide to redshirt if they don't appear to be in line for regular minutes.

As for XJ, I agree, he's probably a 3 year player, but even in that situation, you'd still have the four true freshmen, plus Jenkins vying for playing time in 2015. And that's assuming no one gets recruited over in the next 2 classes. If DJ Wilson commits, or Zylan Cheatham has a change of heart and takes a serious look at CU, that changes the situation once again. Finally, for the kid to want to stay, he'd have to be OK with the idea of being patient redshirting for a year, then seeing limited minutes as a freshman before moving into a bigger role as a sophomore, assuming XJ leaves early and he doesn't get recruited over. That may be asking a lot of an 18 year old kid who was a highly regarded prospect and likely has at least some idea of potentially making a living playing basketball.

 

[buffaholic]

When did Tad Boyle hint that he would redshirt Thomas (or any recruit)?

 

[Buffenuf]

When did Tad Boyle hint that he would redshirt Thomas (or any recruit)?

He didn't! Its the kid's option, some are smarter than others in recognizing what's best for their individual situations, "highly regarded" or less than.
Gordon needed the academic adjustment time, Jenkins was pencil thin, likely to be broken in half against the likes of D-1 oppos. Each to his credit made the choice to RS, in hopes of furthering their chances with BB as a career.

Excellent coachs like to redshirt if they can. It takes huge pressure off a kid who may be a few pounds or solid practice competition away for truly competing for time on the floor during games. Competing "on the floor" first means competing well in practice. That's where minutes are earned in college, particularly when you have roughly equivalent talent competing for all spots in the rotation as CU does now (except for the 5 spot). Fresman like Fletcher and Hopkins will learn a tremendous amout more going agaist NBA prospects Scott, Dinwiddie and XJ everyday in practice, than in 4-8 minutes against lesser talent in a game against the likes of No. Arizona!

 

[rolandftw]

When did Tad Boyle hint that he would redshirt Thomas (or any recruit)?

There was an NBCsports.com article where the author says Boyle talked about Andre Roberson and the effect his decision to enter the draft effected Dustin Thomas. That had he returned, Thomas was likely facing either a redshirt season or a year with limited minutes. But because he entered, Thomas would get an opportunity right away

Boyle is not going to force a redshirt on anyone, but many coaches see a redshirt as something only done for a medical or academic reason (partial qualifiers). Boyle seems to at least take into consideration minutes. Still going to be the kid's decision whether to play their freshmen year and hope for an opportunity for more minutes as the season progresses or to take a redshirt though.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I know it's not the topic of the thread but I didn't wanna start a new one. Wiltjer might be transferring from Kentucky. He can knock down 3s plus he's about 6'9" 6'10". Sure could use a dude like that.

 

[Medford M.]

I know it's not the topic of the thread but I didn't wanna start a new one. Wiltjer might be transferring from Kentucky. He can knock down 3s plus he's about 6'9" 6'10". Sure could use a dude like that.

Does he want to pay his own way for a year while he sits out?

 

[CVilleBuff]

2 things:

Can somebody tell me why anybody has to RS?

And I can't believe they extended Tad with his inability to land double digit transfers every year.......

Wondering the same thing about why we have to RS some guys. It's not really the norm in college basketball, more reserved for special cases largely involving injury. Just because it happened last year (largely due to a very special situation), doesn't mean it's going to be the new norm where 2 or 3 guys redshirt for CU every year.

 

[Goose]

I know it's not the topic of the thread but I didn't wanna start a new one. Wiltjer might be transferring from Kentucky. He can knock down 3s plus he's about 6'9" 6'10". Sure could use a dude like that.

From the Pacific Northwest. Hoping he's looking more at Gonzaga than Oregon/Washington. Plus, if he went to Gonzaga, it might be enough to convince Josh Perkins to head there. Win/win.