Why did you turn on Hawk so much so fast?

[buffs04]

I never expected 10 wins. I expected 8 or 9, however, because I truly thought this team would turn the corner.

I started this year probably in group 3. I was not impressed with the performance of the team and the staff last year. If you will recall, the expectations going into 2008 were not dissimilar to the expectations going into this year, and to say that they were not realized would be a bit of an understatement.

As another poster mentioned, I definitely would much rather be wrong and have CU win than have CU lose and be right.

 

[leftybuff]

after it became apparent the "Boise Playbook"/"You blitz, we score" talk of preseason #1 was BS (even behind the BJax at QB murkiness, the O gameplan seemed like it was made up week by week)....i thought Hawk had some Big Talk vs. credibility issues. those have really come to the fore this season thus far. like others, i don't put much credence in anything he says....and don't like being treated like i'm a internet scummy moron who deserves the lamest, most blithe answers to direct questions that pertain to his very questionable wins and losses job performance. other coaches get in front of the mic and take some blame, Hawk seems to refer back to a set of platitudes that are circular with the bottom line that the platitudes and the losing remain constant.

i remember watching the Year 1 CU All Access show. they devoted a lot of time to Hawk's pregame/postgame motivational speeches. i remember a lot of players looking at their shoes or the ceiling with bored looks on their faces. as silly as the speeches were (about going through the fire, getting your horns out and the crucible, etc.), at the time i chalked it up to the coaching transition and some of Barney's guys not "buying in".

now, it seems all too familiar when i hear the guy deflect every criticism with a bunch of hooey, the all-purpose media scapegoat, or PR friendly jive.

.

I watched that last night on DVR, the day before MSU he said "I'm not one of those we'll see guys, I want to go NOW, (i.e. win). Now his mantra is we just gotta hang in there and one day (Who knows when) this thing will pop.

I never expected 10 wins. I expected 8 or 9, however, because I truly thought this team would turn the corner.

I started this year probably in group 3. I was not impressed with the performance of the team and the staff last year. If you will recall, the expectations going into 2008 were not dissimilar to the expectations going into this year, and to say that they were not realized would be a bit of an understatement.

As another poster mentioned, I definitely would much rather be wrong and have CU win than have CU lose and be right.

I went from 2 to three. IMO he can still pull it out if he wins 7-8 games, bu that ain't happening.
Why did I slide?

Year 1: we're gonna win now, we're gonna be electric on ST, you blitz we score, BSU mojo 2-10

Year 2: OK first year mulligan. Win over OK, but by mid season everybody figured out how to stop the O. You know what I am saying.

Year 3: O designed around the biggest limitation on O, goes nowhere. Not kicking the FG v. Mizzou? WTF? Chalked up to nothing but a HUGE ego of the HC.

Year 4: Injury bug bit last year, told 10 wins (I don't think he menat it like that necessarily to be fair) but sched sets up nicely for a 8 W season, maybe 7. Teams gets head kicked in by two teams CU should beat like the neighbor's rented mule. Put me in category three at that point.

 

[sackman]

I was all set with Hawkins in 2006 except I didn't like his hires for the coordinator positions. I was amazed at what happened with his first game. I let 2006 go. Some good things happened in 2007, but some reservations crept in. I wasn't
happy in 2008 and the reservations about him increased. Helfrich,
the player groupings, constant excuses, and his strange comments
piled up.

I was willing to give 2009 a try and then the first 2 games opened
my eyes that he does not have what it takes. The offense is still
sputtering. The offense looks like it always has, that is, completely designed around what Cody Hawkins can do rather than what the TEAM can do. Unfortunately the offense continues to demonstrate that the quarterback has not improved from 2007 even though it is designed around him. (none of that criticism is personal, by the way) Dan Hawkins eliminated competition for the quarterback position and lied about it. He lied about Darrell Scott's condition. We all found out the ridiculous player grouping concept has been his because the defense started using it on top of the offense. Who knows what his criteria are for players to show what he thinks is the proper attitude in practice to earn playing time?? His snide comments about a former player (Klatt) and supporters of the program who use the usual and customary communication network of the day. His snide comments to the media. It goes on and on until Bohn finally cuts the losses.

What the hell do you know, you've never played a game of.... hold on...

never mind.



For me, it all changed at the end of the first half against CSU. A head coach that doesn't know how to use his timeouts is incompetent. After I looked back on it, Hawk has never been very good at time management, which is inexcusable.

 

[Buffarino]

I started in #1, but moved to #2 after his first season. I have been a #2 up until the loss to CSU, at which point I moved to #3.

Not only did they lose to CSU and Toledo, but they looked BAD doing it. No passion, no intensity, no sense of urgency. That and the fact that they are not improving. The youth excuse only holds water if the team gets better as the players mature. I don't see that happening yet.

If he starts winning, I will move back to #2. If he keeps losing, I will move to #4. I like Hawk the person. I think he's done a good job cleaning up the football program and he has helped restore the program's image. But Hawk the coach needs to win games.

 

[fatbuff]

Some here think I am a Hawk apologist, but really Ive always been kind of lukewarm to the guy. You have to remember, when Barney was canned we didnt exactly have coaches standing in line to take on the brain damage that fixing the program was going to take. Rebuilding the program from where it was would be tough anywhere, but with the administration in Boulder we are talking damn near impossible. There are a lot of dumb****s in Regent that would just as soon we dont have any athletics, and use Folsom for interpretive dance instead. A good football team is as important to the university as any of the Nobel prizes that the faculty has, because of the money that comes in. Until the ivory tower haters realize this, and support the program, winning is going to be less and less likely.
I respect Hawk for taking on the challenge, and he has done his best, but maybe he just wasnt up to it. I kind of talked myself into thinking he could get it done. He has won at every level he has been at until he got here, and he has the kind of personality that our clueless liberal hippy acadamia could embrace. Unfortunately, I think the job has worn Hawk down. He knows better than to get into it with the media, and that is something I never expected, and probably signals the end.
In the end Im kind of like Alfred. I support him as long as he is CU's head coach, and Im going to root for him to turn things around. If he doesnt though, Im not going to turn on the guy and blame him for our ills. Because, we already were in a bad place, and he was willing to step up and try to turn it around. If we do decide to go with another coach next year, I really do believe that the program is now in better shape than when Hawk got here. There are some good young players waiting to put together something special.

 

[fatbuff]

What the hell do you know, you've never played a game of.... hold on...

never mind.



For me, it all changed at the end of the first half against CSU. A head coach that doesn't know how to use his timeouts is incompetent. After I looked back on it, Hawk has never been very good at time management, which is inexcusable.

Coach Mac had his share of brain farts with the clock as well, but I would say he was a pretty good coach.

 

[Chilly]

I started in #1, but moved to #2 after his first season. I have been a #2 up until the loss to CSU, at which point I moved to #3.

Not only did they lose to CSU and Toledo, but they looked BAD doing it. No passion, no intensity, no sense of urgency. That and the fact that they are not improving. The youth excuse only holds water if the team gets better as the players mature. I don't see that happening yet.

If he starts winning, I will move back to #2. If he keeps losing, I will move to #4. I like Hawk the person. I think he's done a good job cleaning up the football program and he has helped restore the program's image. But Hawk the coach needs to win games.

So you didn't see any improvement on the O-line and D play during the Wyoming game?

I find it ironical that when we lose to push-overs we suck, but then when we shut one out, it was suppose to happen.

If we would managed to come back and beat CSU in the 2nd half, people would still be complaining because we didn't shut them out. When we shut out a team, people complain that it was a nobody and that is what you should do.

I don't care who you are playing, shutting out a team on D is a very hard thing to do and doesn't happen very often. I am not saying the team is "There", but surely there must have been some kind of improvement between Toledo and Wyoming to go from giving up 50 to none.

 

[canbuff]

Did his 10 win speech really change your expectations for this year? I'll admit it was a bit bold but if you look at our schedule it wasn't that unrealistic if we showed some expected improvement fromlast year.
This team had a third year starting QB coming back, a great set of running backs, a third year returning WR and anothervery talented one that had been in the system for 2 years, a bunch of talented senior TEs and a highly recruited o-line with lots of game experience even if they are young. Sounds like an offence that should move the ball and win us some games. But for the fourth year in a row they have no identity, confidence, efficiency or true understanding. That is on the coaches, especially Hawk.
I felt he did a horrible job last year and said as much and got neg repped for it, iwas at #3 last year and am still there. I don't hate him cause i don't know him but I
think he is all talk and no substance.

 

[leftybuff]

So you didn't see any improvement on the O-line and D play during the Wyoming game?

I find it ironical that when we lose to push-overs we suck, but then when we shut one out, it was suppose to happen.

If we would managed to come back and beat CSU in the 2nd half, people would still be complaining because we didn't shut them out. When we shut out a team, people complain that it was a nobody and that is what you should do.

I don't care who you are playing, shutting out a team on D is a very hard thing to do and doesn't happen very often. I am not saying the team is "There", but surely there must have been some kind of improvement between Toledo and Wyoming to go from giving up 50 to none.

The Wyo. shut out was as much a product of Wyo.'s woeful kicker as anything else. Let's be honest. I am glad they won, and glad for the shutout, but yes, CU should be hammering weak MWC teams. That's what teams competitive in BCS conferences do.

 

[leftybuff]

Did his 10 win speech really change your expectations for this year? .

I heard the ten win thing and kind of rolled my eyes. I thought 8 wins was a good season, 7 was expected.

 

[Chilly]

The Wyo. shut out was as much a product of Wyo.'s woeful kicker as anything else. Let's be honest. I am glad they won, and glad for the shutout, but yes, CU should be hammering weak MWC teams. That's what teams competitive in BCS conferences do.

I agree this what they should do. The point is they didn't do this in weeks 1 and 2.

So if they couldn't do it the first 2 weeks, but then manage to come back and shut out a team in week three. Wouldn't that mean we are seeing some improvement on the field with the young players?

 

[Buffarino]

So you didn't see any improvement on the O-line and D play during the Wyoming game?

I find it ironical that when we lose to push-overs we suck, but then when we shut one out, it was suppose to happen.

If we would managed to come back and beat CSU in the 2nd half, people would still be complaining because we didn't shut them out. When we shut out a team, people complain that it was a nobody and that is what you should do.

I don't care who you are playing, shutting out a team on D is a very hard thing to do and doesn't happen very often. I am not saying the team is "There", but surely there must have been some kind of improvement between Toledo and Wyoming to go from giving up 50 to none.

The team is 1-2 when by any rational account they should be 3-0, or 2-1 at a minimum. The OL looked marginally better against Wyo. I agree the DL looked better. But was that because Wyo is so bad, or were there real gains made? The offense sputtered through much of that game. They did not look good. We're gonna find out how much the team has really improved next Thursday. No more pushovers on this schedule.

My expectations for this season have not changed. If he wins 7+, I think he should stay. If he wins 6 or less, I think he should go. That's how I felt before the season started and that's how I still feel.

The schedule doesn't get any easier than it is this year. If he can't have a winning season now, I fear he never will at CU.

Chilly, you often take people to task for putting words in your mouth. I would kindly ask that you hold yourself to the same standard. I never said any of the **** you attributed to me in that post.

 

[Chilly]

The team is 1-2 when by any rational account they should be 3-0, or 2-1 at a minimum. The OL looked marginally better against Wyo. I agree the DL looked better. But was that because Wyo is so bad, or were there real gains made? The offense sputtered through much of that game. They did not look good. We're gonna find out how much the team has really improved next Thursday. No more pushovers on this schedule.

My expectations for this season have not changed. If he wins 7+, I think he should stay. If he wins 6 or less, I think he should go. That's how I felt before the season started and that's how I still feel.

The schedule doesn't get any easier than it is this year. If he can't have a winning season now, I fear he never will at CU.

Chilly, you often take people to task for putting words in your mouth. I would kindly ask that you hold yourself to the same standard. I never said any of the **** you attributed to me in that post.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth.

if you are referring to this

"If we would managed to come back and beat CSU in the 2nd half, people would still be complaining because we didn't shut them out. When we shut out a team, people complain that it was a nobody and that is what you should do."

There was a reason I said "people" and not "you".

I was simply trying to make a point that, even though it is only 1 game against a bad team, we did see some improvement in a few area during the Wyoming game and that we should not dismiss it as simple being because it was against Wyoming.

Yes they are a bad team, but by all accounts the general consensus is that Toledo and CSU are bad teams as well, and yet the burned our secondary left and right all game long.

So yes. Wyoming is a bad team and yes we saw some improvement because we did what we couldn't do the first two weeks and that is beat a bad team.

 

[leftybuff]

I agree this what they should do. The point is they didn't do this in weeks 1 and 2.

So if they couldn't do it the first 2 weeks, but then manage to come back and shut out a team in week three. Wouldn't that mean we are seeing some improvement on the field with the young players?

A W is an improvement. Is it because WY is a terrible team or CU has improved? I'd say a little of both. The D played with an intensity not seen before, I'd definitely say that. The O looked pretty inept to me. Speedy was the real bright spot. The pass game remains anemic, for reasons that have been hashed over ad nauseam...

 

[Chilly]

A W is an improvement. Is it because WY is a terrible team or CU has improved? I'd say a little of both. The D played with an intensity not seen before, I'd definitely say that. The O looked pretty inept to me. Speedy was the real bright spot. The pass game remains anemic, for reasons that have been hashed over ad nauseam...

I am really hoping a healthy Simas help out our passing game. Because I agree Cody did not look good at all against Wyoming at times.

 

[Buffarino]

A W is an improvement. Is it because WY is a terrible team or CU has improved? I'd say a little of both. The D played with an intensity not seen before, I'd definitely say that. The O looked pretty inept to me. Speedy was the real bright spot. The pass game remains anemic, for reasons that have been hashed over ad nauseam...

Yep. The Defense played better vs Wyo. I don't think I'm ready to say the offense did as well, though.

 

[BuckinFuffs]

I think there's a great amount of 'pendelum swing' by fans... we get to fired up, then we get to down... we need to stay balanced emotionally.

We need to hold the course and see what happens at the end of the year. There is no reason to jump off a cliff right now... its distracting and unproductive.

I'm not happy with the start by any means but getting a new coach and all that entails would be much worse IMHO.

 

[BlackNGold]

I don't feel I belong in any of those categories. To me it is not a matter of loving or hating the coach. I love CU and the CU football program. If the coach is making things more successful then I support him, if I feel he is hurting the program then I want him gone.

An I have not had a sudden change of opinion. I have had concerns about Hawkins coaching for a long time - and each year those concerns have grown. I believe that fundamentally he is not the guy to compete at the Big 12 level. The early things that he did well are now going in reverse - PR and recruiting.

He now has 10 games to disprove those concerns which seems to now be shared with a growing number of fans.

 

[somebody]

I am really hoping a healthy Simas help out our passing game. Because I agree Cody did not look good at all against Wyoming at times.

Except even Wyoming got a pass rush, and Cody couldn't get the ball to the outlet guy. The OL has to do a better job, and Cody has to do a better job. Adding talent at WR doesn't help the first two problems.

BTW, the d did look better, but we still have issues with basic stuff like tackling.

 

[NashBuff]

I don't feel I belong in any of those categories. To me it is not a matter of loving or hating the coach. I love CU and the CU football program. If the coach is making things more successful then I support him, if I feel he is hurting the program then I want him gone.

An I have not had a sudden change of opinion. I have had concerns about Hawkins coaching for a long time - and each year those concerns have grown. I believe that fundamentally he is not the guy to compete at the Big 12 level. The early things that he did well are now going in reverse - PR and recruiting.

He now has 10 games to disprove those concerns which seems to now be shared with a growing number of fans.

The same here. Those catergories don't fit me very well.

When Big Mac asked CU fans to give Hawk three years, I had no problems with that. How many of you guys read about that Big Mac quote and give Hawk three years?

This year's team has a lot of juniors on the team and that is when you expect the team to start showing results on the football field and use this season as a springboard to a season where the Buffs contend for the Big 12 title where there are more upperclassmen starters on offense. CU is supposed to be making a move towards the top half of the Big 12 and clearly that isn't happening. The next few games will tell us if we need to look for a new coach. WVU, UT, and KU are top teams from their respective conferences. Then we got MU and A&M at home along with road games at KSU & ISU (teams that we barely beat at home last year).

I have been a patient CU fan for more than three seasons but it's gone.

 

[Junction]

Yes they are a bad team, but by all accounts the general consensus is that Toledo and CSU are bad teams as well, and yet the burned our secondary left and right all game long.

So yes. Wyoming is a bad team and yes we saw some improvement because we did what we couldn't do the first two weeks and that is beat a bad team.

I think the difference is that Wyo was a much worse team than CSU or Toledo, and especially on offense. More than one Wyo fan at the game mentioned to me that the only times they scored on UT resulted from UT screw ups in the kicking game. Even at the start of the game, they were discouraged about the state of their offense.

The other thing is that CSU and Toledo did most of their damage against our defense on deep passes. Wyo's QB was simply no passing threat AT ALL. While the defense was certainly better and I don't want to take away from that, I will be interested to see how that improvement looks up against another team with the ability to throw the ball downfield... :huh:

 

[NW Buff]

This make no sense to me in all honesty. The reason we want to fire Hawkins is because he was saying good things about his team. Had he not said good things about this team you would be willing to give the extra year?

I mean what did you want him to say. Yeah we are 1 year away so don't count on much this year? That would have been a great way to motivate his team.

Others have made this point. To me it's not just about saying good things about your program. I do understand that.

It's a combination of two things:
1. The very lofty statements he was making before the season.
2. Just how bad the team looked in those first two games.

So, I'm left feeling like Hawkins flat out lied to me about what I should expect this season. Or, and this is probably worse, I'm left with the feeling that he simply doesn't have a clue. He truly believed all of the stuff he said and cannot figure out what the heck is going on.

I understand and can handle losing, even to CSU. What I am struggling with is seeing my Buffs looking that bad on the field.

I was happy when we made this hire and I'm still not in the fire Hawkins camp. I want to see us do well and I'm looking for signs that the ship is headed in the right direction.

 

[Junction]

I was all set with Hawkins in 2006 except I didn't like his hires for the coordinator positions. I was amazed at what happened with his first game. I let 2006 go. Some good things happened in 2007, but some reservations crept in. I wasn't
happy in 2008 and the reservations about him increased. Helfrich,
the player groupings, constant excuses, and his strange comments
piled up.

I was willing to give 2009 a try and then the first 2 games opened
my eyes that he does not have what it takes. The offense is still
sputtering. The offense looks like it always has, that is, completely designed around what Cody Hawkins can do rather than what the TEAM can do. Unfortunately the offense continues to demonstrate that the quarterback has not improved from 2007 even though it is designed around him. (none of that criticism is personal, by the way) Dan Hawkins eliminated competition for the quarterback position and lied about it. He lied about Darrell Scott's condition. We all found out the ridiculous player grouping concept has been his because the defense started using it on top of the offense. Who knows what his criteria are for players to show what he thinks is the proper attitude in practice to earn playing time?? His snide comments about a former player (Klatt) and supporters of the program who use the usual and customary communication network of the day. His snide comments to the media. It goes on and on until Bohn finally cuts the losses.

:congrats:

This pretty well sums up how I got from a 1.5 to a very solid 3.25.

Last season I started to have serious questions about the gameday coaching, but tried to chalk it up to injuries. This year there have just been too many things, from day one, that leave me scratching my head and asking :wtf: to have any confidence remaining in Hawk at all at this point...

 

[77buff]

I don''t really fit into any category. Mac said give Juicebox 4 years. This is year 4. He can still redeem himself, but no year 5 if he does not.

 

[DBT]

I don''t really fit into any category. Mac said give Juicebox 4 years. This is year 4. He can still redeem himself, but no year 5 if he does not.

I'm not sure what Mac said regarding "4 years." All I know is that Mac still supports Hawk, unlike half this board (based on a recent, unscientific poll).

 

[BroncoBuff]

Clock management ... that's something even a junior high team can do well ... that's a head coach thing.

Clock management against CSU ... unforgiveable.

 

[66BUFF]

I'm not sure what Mac said regarding "4 years." All I know is that Mac still supports Hawk, unlike half this board (based on a recent, unscientific poll).

does Mac still support hawk?

 

[El Gringo]

does Mac still support hawk?

http://www.allbuffs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38945

 

[buffwings]

I didnt turn on DH very fast. It took 2 1/2 seasons. I started at no 2, moved to 3 after 2-10, then back to 2 after 2007. Half way through 08 I moved back to 3 and haved stayed there until this year's 0-2 start which moved me to almost 4. It wasnt instant hate, it was gradual disillusionment.

 

[west coast]

last two years have been letdowns. and the start to this season has been really really ugly. recruiting scott coming out of the scandal and beating ou i thought we were ointo something. but the slow developing offense and then this year we look like a division 2 team out there. i don't mean to bag on the players but just looking at them , their soft