Wow. Mizzou LB Michael Sam: "I'm gay."

[goalline]

First off: I don't have any issue with Sam coming out and playing in the NFL.

to argue the other side - having been through someone's 'coming out' in a different organization, these are the issues:

1. There will probably be someone in the organization who is, at best, uncomfortable with sharing meetings, lockers, showers etc. This person or persons will create some friction. Hopefully, they can be professional about it, but as the Incognito case shows, the locker room is not always professional. At worst, there could be significant hazing or team issues. I'm glad to see that the MO locker room seems to have handled it quite well.

2. There will be media pressure on the team that will have nothing to do with play. This is similar to the Tebow fracas.

3. There may be a over-emphasis on lifestyle for a while, but that's just everyone reacting to the situation and trying to find out where the new 'normal' is. Again, this is a distraction to the team goals.

4. Other people outside the organization may use the information as a weapon. This can and probably will bleed over to all members of the team, not just Sam.

Having said all that, I think it is high time for the NFL to deal with these issues.

 

[leftybuff]

I thought the bulk of these issues were settled when Manti Teo hit the League....

 

[Yung Buffalo]

As the parent of an 11 year-old, my concern is how to explain to her, that for much of the world, sexual and romantic relationships between people of the same sex, are just as valid/reasonable/acceptable, as "normal" relationships. At this point, it's hard for me to imagine explaining that, without making my prejudice in favor of normal relationships clear to her - which to a child may make the 'forbidden' area more attractive. I needed another headache.

You're right, we should force gay athletes to continue to lie about themselves to save you from a headache. God forbid you have to worry about explaining something uncomfortable to your child.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[DBT]

I knew there were marijuana deaths.

~DBT

Well, don't say I didn't warn ya!

 

[NWD Buff]

As the parent of an 11 year-old, my concern is how to explain to her, that for much of the world, sexual and romantic relationships between people of the same sex, are just as valid/reasonable/acceptable, as "normal" relationships. At this point, it's hard for me to imagine explaining that, without making my prejudice in favor of normal relationships clear to her - which to a child may make the 'forbidden' area more attractive. I needed another headache.

In other words, you are dreading having to be a parent.

I have friends with kids who come home from school and talk about their friends with two mommies or two daddies. It is nothing to them. I bet your 11-year-old is more comfortable with it than you are.

 

[Waldo]

If that was supposed to be a response to my question (which was directed to Walter White btw), you missed. I'm not here to argue with your belief system. I'm interested in what Walter believes the consequences should be (on this Earth, not in the after life).

ok I won't answer your question, I'll let wally speak for wally

 

[rolandftw]

It'd be great if we got to the point where this was a non-issue that got no media attention. I think the amount of media attention it gets, is likely to hurt and not help Sam's draft stock.

 

[sackman]

 

[TimmyDUBs]

Who isn't a sinner? Only one sin, according to the book, separates and that sin that separates in not same sex partnership, period end of story. If a christian says anything different he or she has a problem with the author of the book

which corrupt pope or maniacal king are you referring to?

 

[Burrito]

I'm not dude, but I could've been. My parents navigated that minefield like champs apparently. Now I'm 28 and have sucked 0 dicks!

In a row?

Semper Gumby

 

[Burrito]

Look at Walter suddenly getting shy. Now we know what topic makes a troll blush.

Walter Pink?

Semper Gumby

 

[Walter White]

I can totally appreciate that you and others may have traditional views on the subject (which I understand to mean the view that homosexuality is a sin), but the way that I read your post (and maybe I'm reading it wrong) you think that, because Michael Sam is a sinner, he should not have come out of the closet, and since he did come out, he should not be pursuing his chosen profession.

Do you hold that same view for other jobs? Should gay doctor's stay in the closet, or not practice medicine?

Well, if you're going to talk about the Bible and what it says about sin or wrong doing or whatever you want to call it... Jesus says don't do it....and stop if you are doing it...whatever it is.

 

[TimmyDUBs]

stupidity is what happens when people take religions literally.

 

[JJBuff]

In other words, you are dreading having to be a parent.

I have friends with kids who come home from school and talk about their friends with two mommies or two daddies. It is nothing to them. I bet your 11-year-old is more comfortable with it than you are.

Start at 1:00

[video=youtube;yPvVnrV1tow]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPvVnrV1tow#t=80[/video]

 

[Walter White]

So what would Jesus say to Michael Sam? We haven't touched on that. Would he stone him? Would he love him unconditionally?

That's a legit question and I believe the Bible answers it directly. What does Jesus do when the woman is caught in adultery (john 8)? Two things: 1) He basically tells the others not to cast stones and 2) he tells the woman to stop her wrong doing. He does not say, "hey whatever you feel is right for you, keep on doing that".

For sure, nobody should "cast stones" at this football player. If they do, that's by far a worse "sin".

 

[Junction]

I wasn't aware that the right to play in the NFL, or to live openly, was predicated on being free from sin.

 

[Walter White]

If that was supposed to be a response to my question (which was directed to Walter White btw), you missed. I'm not here to argue with your belief system. I'm interested in what Walter believes the consequences should be (on this Earth, not in the after life).

No consequences at all. We live in a free country. At the same time, I don't have to agree that what he is doing is right, but that does not give me license to be unkind to him or anyone else. All belief systems are subjective, conservative or liberal. You can take any issue. Why can't we have polygamy? Who's to say it's right or wrong?

 

[Walter White]

I wasn't aware that the right to play in the NFL, or to live openly, was predicated on being free from sin.

Who said that?

 

[Junction]

Who said that?

Well, if it isn't, then who the hell cares whether what he does in his private life is a sin or not?

 

[Walter White]

Well, if it isn't, then who the hell cares whether what he does in his private life is a sin or not?

It looks like a lot of people do. It's front page news and he felt the need to tell everyone. You are reading a thread about it. If you didn't have interest would you be reading the thread?

 

[Burrito]

Who said that?

Tebow.

Semper Gumby

 

[Waldo]

which corrupt pope or maniacal king are you referring to?

Who said anything about a man being the author besides that would be unpossible as it is written.

The book is merely a road map, it won't take you anywhere by itself.

 

[cubuffs85]

It'd be great if we got to the point where this was a non-issue that got no media attention. I think the amount of media attention it gets, is likely to hurt and not help Sam's draft stock.

Yeah the media circus likely will hurt more than the actual issue. That said, someone has to be the first and this was bound to be a big deal when it happened.

 

[Buffnik]

Christians will be some of Sam's strongest teammates. They won't condone his homosexuality any more than they condone other teammates who party too much, cheat on their spouses, follow a religion other than Christianity (or are atheist), etc., etc. But a big part of Christianity is caring for and respecting your brothers no matter their sins.

So I don't worry about the Christians in the locker room. It's the ignorant, insecure and bigoted who will be the problem. Some of them may happen to call themselves Christian, but it wouldn't be a Christian thing.

Honestly, I think the biggest issue on a team will probably be some guys getting over the fact that they're uncomfortable changing and showering with a gay man. That's a very different dynamic than having an office cubicle next to a gay man. Some of that's going to be on Michael Sam and whether he's got a sense of humor about the "eyes up" jokes that go on every day whether or not there's a gay man in the locker room.

 

[Junction]

It looks like a lot of people do. It's front page news and he felt the need to tell everyone. You are reading a thread about it. If you didn't have interest would you be reading the thread?

A lot of people care about the fact that a gay man can finally be honest about who he is and still hope to play in the NFL. It's front page news because that hasn't been the case in the past. Whether or not what he does is a sin is something that has nothing to do with any of that, except in the minds of people looking for reasons to keep pushing people who make them uncomfortable back in the closet.

 

[sackman]

Tebow.

Semper Gumby

 

[Deleted member 807]

A lot of people care about the fact that a gay man can finally be honest about who he is and still hope to play in the NFL. It's front page news because that hasn't been the case in the past. Whether or not what he does is a sin is something that has nothing to do with any of that, except in the minds of people looking for reasons to keep pushing people who make them uncomfortable back in the closet.

I prefer to think that this controversy is fabricated by NFL draft war rooms in a diabolical plan to pick up Sam later in the draft.

 

[leftybuff]

Christians will be some of Sam's strongest teammates. They won't condone his homosexuality any more than they condone other teammates who party too much, cheat on their spouses, follow a religion other than Christianity (or are atheist), etc., etc. But a big part of Christianity is caring for and respecting your brothers no matter their sins.

So I don't worry about the Christians in the locker room. It's the ignorant, insecure and bigoted who will be the problem. Some of them may happen to call themselves Christian, but it wouldn't be a Christian thing.

Honestly, I think the biggest issue on a team will probably be some guys getting over the fact that they're uncomfortable changing and showering with a gay man. That's a very different dynamic than having an office cubicle next to a gay man. Some of that's going to be on Michael Sam and whether he's got a sense of humor about the "eyes up" jokes that go on every day whether or not there's a gay man in the locker room.

Very well said.

 

[Waldo]

Christians will be some of Sam's strongest teammates. They won't condone his homosexuality any more than they condone other teammates who party too much, cheat on their spouses, follow a religion other than Christianity (or are atheist), etc., etc. But a big part of Christianity is caring for and respecting your brothers no matter their sins.

So I don't worry about the Christians in the locker room. It's the ignorant, insecure and bigoted who will be the problem. Some of them may happen to call themselves Christian, but it wouldn't be a Christian thing.

Honestly, I think the biggest issue on a team will probably be some guys getting over the fact that they're uncomfortable changing and showering with a gay man. That's a very different dynamic than having an office cubicle next to a gay man. Some of that's going to be on Michael Sam and whether he's got a sense of humor about the "eyes up" jokes that go on every day whether or not there's a gay man in the locker room.

That is correct in theory but not practiced in reality by many. Example: if you are divorced you become a second class citizen in many of the denominations with emphasis on Baptist attitudes towards those who have been through a divorce even for scriptural reasons ie adultery or cheating. There are several other issues that move you to being a second class citizen in the minds of the self righteous religitards. Other than that spot on.

 

[Denver_sc]

Not to take this too off topic, but I believe Walter Wink (not our own Whitey) to be a very intelligent theologian. Here's what he has to say. If you are interested in the subject (homosexuality in the bible) I think it's worth 10 minutes to read.

That said, I like the closing paragraph the best:

We in the church need to get our priorities straight. We have not reached a consensus about who is right on the issue of homosexuality. But what is clear, utterly clear, is that we are commanded to love one another. Love not just our gay sisters and brothers, who are often sitting beside us, unacknowledged, in church, but all of us who are involved in this debate.