WSU QB Hilinski dead in apparent suicide

[Buffnik]

Your examples in the first paragraph are different and seem to be a justification for continuing your fandom. It's technically illegal to watch porn and go to strip clubs when you're under the age of 18. Your son would have to be a certain age to legally participate in a daredevil show, and would need a certain level of coordination and competency as a human. There is no age restriction on playing football. Saying you wouldn't allow your son to play football, even if that's what he really wanted to do, and then turning around and showing him the sport first hand and the resources, time, etc you put into the sport is hypocritical. "As long as it's not my son" kind of mentality.

The military part is also different. A more apt comparison is whether or not you would cast a vote to send troops to war, but never allow your son to enlist if that's what he wanted to do (which again doesn't really compare because he can't enlist in the military prior to being 18 years old, without your consent).

I thought you asked about being a fan of college and the NFL, where they are all adults?

There are plenty of things that are fine occupations or avocations but may be dangerous and/or not a good fit for a person. I don't find any hypocrisy at all in saying that one of those things may not be right for someone you know and is in your care while still passionately enjoying that thing. I played football. I have no regrets and would do it again. My son is not me.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I thought you asked about being a fan of college and the NFL, where they are all adults?

There are plenty of things that are fine occupations or avocations but may be dangerous and/or not a good fit for a person. I don't find any hypocrisy at all in saying that one of those things may not be right for someone you know and is in your care while still passionately enjoying that thing. I played football. I have no regrets and would do it again. My son is not me.

But if your son decided he wanted to play football, like you did and like the players he watches at Folsom or on TV, you're saying you wouldn't let him.

 

[Buffnik]

But if your son decided he wanted to play football, like you did and like the players he watches at Folsom or on TV, you're saying you wouldn't let him.

I'm saying I would discourage it for a multitude of reasons, the dangers of the sport being one of them. I wouldn't ban it, though. And I have avoided signing him up for flag football since he hasn't asked to do it and I'd rather him not get into it, instead pushing him into other sports that I think are better suited to him. That has included rock climbing, martial arts and parkour so it's not like I've encased him in bubble wrap. His team sport love and focus is basketball, fwiw.

Edit: I'm probably not who you want to have this conversation with because it's not a good fit for your point. I'd have to go to a hypothetical of if I had a son who was a fan of football (he likes the tailgates and being with me, but he's not really a fan) and that he was someone who had interest in playing. Not our situation. Our situation is that I'm not going to push something on him that I love and the fact that it's dangerous makes it easier to accept that he won't be a football player like I was.

 

[BuffLuke80]

With my son, I told him he could play whatever sport he wanted as long as grades came first. He's worked hard at that and didn't have anything below a 94 so he held up his end of it. I can't tell him no now, he's earned it. He actually likes baseball and basketball more than anything but he wants to play football. That's what he wants to do so I'll get his back with it. We've discussed the risks of it ad nauseam. I just told him not to be stupid about it like I was and I will be watching.

 

[leftybuff]

If you have truly stopped or limited your time, $$, etc spent on the sport than I commend you and have nothing really to say. With that said, I agree you can be a fan of something you choose not to participate in, but that's not the debate at all. The debate is whether or not you'd be a hypocrite for being a die hard fan of a sport you choose not to let your son participate in. Any way you slice this, it's hypocritical, and any attempt to deny that is simply justifying your own behavior.

I really don't mean this response as an attack on either of you personally, btw. I hope that's not how you took it. I was listening to a conversation the other day about where the line is with the NFL/NCAA football that they'd have to cross to lose your viewership and money. The idea was that NFL players (and college players) have committed some of the worst crimes imaginable (Ray Rice, Joe Mixon, Rae Caruth, Aaron Hernandez, Greg Hardy, Aldon Smith, Riley Cooper, Ray Lewis, OJ Simpson, etc. etc. etc.) and the NFL hasn't always done the "moral" thing by keeping them out of the league, unless the law has done that for them. Have those situations, CTE, rule implementations, anthem policies, NCAA hypocrisy and sanctions (lack of when dealing with high profile programs), etc really deterred viewership or slowed revenues? The sport is bulletproof in this country and I think it's fascinating.

I didn't take it as an offense.

Is it hypocritical? Yeah, probably. No more hypocritical than many human behaviors. Show me someone without hypocrisy sometime...they don't exist. If that is the point you wish to make, that watching FB while not laying my son on the pigskin altar as a sacrifice to George Halas, then consider your point conceded.

BTW, I did not forbid my son, he actually took a pass after watching me hobble around.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I didn't take it as an offense.

Is it hypocritical? Yeah, probably. No more hypocritical than many human behaviors. Show me someone without hypocrisy sometime...they don't exist. If that is the point you wish to make, that watching FB while not laying my son on the pigskin altar as a sacrifice to George Halas, then consider your point conceded.

BTW, I did not forbid my son, he actually took a pass after watching me hobble around.

A little dramatic...

As someone who has grown up around the sport, played the sport, coached the sport and am admittedly slightly obsessed with the sport, this discussion has become one of my biggest pet peeves. I can't tell you how many times I'd be over at my sister and BIL's house last Fall watching a Buffs/Broncos game and hear them say they'd never let their sons play. They buy them jerseys, host watch parties, take them to games, and have them both playing flag football, yet they'll "never allow them to play". I understand we are all hypocrites in one way or another, but it doesn't make it any less irritating for me in this situation.

I was also just pointing out while so many of us voice displeasure with so many aspects of football, including the health issues, nothing has really stopped people from tuning in each Saturday and Sunday.

 

[leftybuff]

A little dramatic...

As someone who has grown up around the sport, played the sport, coached the sport and am admittedly slightly obsessed with the sport, this discussion has become one of my biggest pet peeves. I can't tell you how many times I'd be over at my sister and BIL's house last Fall watching a Buffs/Broncos game and hear them say they'd never let their sons play. They buy them jerseys, host watch parties, take them to games, and have them both playing flag football, yet they'll "never allow them to play". I understand we are all hypocrites in one way or another, but it doesn't make it any less irritating for me in this situation.

I was also just pointing out while so many of us voice displeasure with so many aspects of football, including the health issues, nothing has really stopped people from tuning in each Saturday and Sunday.

It was meant to hyperbolic...I am close to a former NFL'er, I know a few more guys who played in the NFL, friends who made it to college, and I played a bit myself. I like the game because it is the one I played the most and understand the best. Sorry it is a peeve for you. I think it is a sport on the decline...I am not alone in thinking that amongst the people I speak to. FWIW.

 

[Gary Indiana]

A little dramatic...

As someone who has grown up around the sport, played the sport, coached the sport and am admittedly slightly obsessed with the sport, this discussion has become one of my biggest pet peeves. I can't tell you how many times I'd be over at my sister and BIL's house last Fall watching a Buffs/Broncos game and hear them say they'd never let their sons play. They buy them jerseys, host watch parties, take them to games, and have them both playing flag football, yet they'll "never allow them to play". I understand we are all hypocrites in one way or another, but it doesn't make it any less irritating for me in this situation.

I was also just pointing out while so many of us voice displeasure with so many aspects of football, including the health issues, nothing has really stopped people from tuning in each Saturday and Sunday.

I have actually stopped tuning in on Sundays due to the NFL's attempts to wriggle their way out of the court ordered CTE settlement and the blind eye they turned to the situation for too long.

I still tune in for CU games because I truly think that most of the coaches on our staff truly have these kids' best interests at heart and would not put them in harms way (like we have seen Leach do with Faulk, Harbaugh w/ his QB etc.). Plus a lot of these kids would not have the great opportunity put in front of them to better themselves if not for football, so some of that balances out for me.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I watch Denver and Dallas but not much else as far as the NFL is concerned. Of course, I'll tune in for the bigger games like NE and Pittsburgh for example. When I grew up watching it, you got to see the best of the best at the qb position imho. Montana, Elway, Marino, Kelly, Moon, Young, etc. I loved that era much more than today's game. Hell, the game doesn't even hardly resemble that era except for parts of it. I'm a college football fan at heart though, always have been really.

 

[Buffnik]

I watch Denver and Dallas but not much else as far as the NFL is concerned. Of course, I'll tune in for the bigger games like NE and Pittsburgh for example. When I grew up watching it, you got to see the best of the best at the qb position imho. Montana, Elway, Marino, Kelly, Moon, Young, etc. I loved that era much more than today's game. Hell, the game doesn't even hardly resemble that era except for parts of it. I'm a college football fan at heart though, always have been really.

I loved that era, too.

In hindsight, I doubt that it was better football or more entertaining. I just happened to be of an age when I cared a lot more about pro sports. It's become less interesting to me as I've gotten older. I'm pretty sure that it's mostly because I have changed with having more stuff in my life to care about.

 

[BuffLuke80]

I loved that era, too.

In hindsight, I doubt that it was better football or more entertaining. I just happened to be of an age when I cared a lot more about pro sports. It's become less interesting to me as I've gotten older. I'm pretty sure that it's mostly because I have changed with having more stuff in my life to care about.

Kids change a lot of things brotha. I agree with what you said above that. It is also so hard to compare the eras of qbs even. We've had this same talk about basketball as well. To me, the games have changed, as a whole anyway.

 

[Buffnik]

Kids change a lot of things brotha. I agree with what you said above that. It is also so hard to compare the eras of qbs even. We've had this same talk about basketball as well. To me, the games have changed, as a whole anyway.

If I'm being honest, the only sport where the talent and excitement hasn't increased since I was a teenager is boxing. Good ole days are now for the rest of the sports.

 

[leftybuff]

I watch Denver and Dallas but not much else as far as the NFL is concerned. Of course, I'll tune in for the bigger games like NE and Pittsburgh for example. When I grew up watching it, you got to see the best of the best at the qb position imho. Montana, Elway, Marino, Kelly, Moon, Young, etc. I loved that era much more than today's game. Hell, the game doesn't even hardly resemble that era except for parts of it. I'm a college football fan at heart though, always have been really.

The NFl veers towards unwatchable. I don't watch much of it anymore.

 

[MtnBuff]

The NFl veers towards unwatchable. I don't watch much of it anymore.

It has gotten boring to watch. Don't know if that is because every game looks the same and every team looks the same or if it is simply that after years of watching it the story lines have all been repeated.

 

[BuffLuke80]

If I'm being honest, the only sport where the talent and excitement hasn't increased since I was a teenager is boxing. Good ole days are now for the rest of the sports.

I'm hoping nothing happens to **** up this heavyweight fight coming up. Is it as hyped as like a Tyson vs Holyfield? No, but maybe it'll be a slug fest to get it back to, at least, getting you to want to watch it. For the most part, I agree with you on sports in general.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

It has gotten boring to watch. Don't know if that is because every game looks the same and every team looks the same or if it is simply that after years of watching it the story lines have all been repeated.

Yet, you keep watching...

 

[MtnBuff]

Yet, you keep watching...

Nowhere close to what I used to.

I used to watch the Broncos game plus one other on Sundays along with all the Monday night games and the Thursday games. Also watched every playoff game. If I was going to be unable to watch I recorded it and watched it later.

Now I watch most of the Broncos games and a few others if I am bored but there can be a game on and I have the TV off.

I do watch a lot more college games now but will miss a weekend here or there for other things (still record and watch the Buffs game.)

 

[Burrito]

No nfl.

 

[CUFan]

CTE has changed my interest level. I remain interested in the Broncos, but I watch fewer and fewer games every year. I also pretty much never watch any other NFL games. Just don’t care enough anymore. Same goes for CFB. Buffs games when I can, but nothing else. I used to watch every college football game I could.

But I don’t think CTE is the whole reason for me. The money in both college and pro has gotten out of control and really changed the game. Personal brands for players are also off-putting to me. Covering up bad deeds and special treatment for players is disappointing at best. I also think when I was younger I looked up to some of the players and that stopped pretty quickly right after college. So, lots of reasons my interest is dimished, CTE just being one of them.

I think football has reached it’s peak and will decline soon. This opinion is anecdotal, but I know very few people that allow their kids to play football anymore.

 

[Bison]

CTE and the anthem controversy really curtailed my interest in football. Only sport that is growing for me is soccer and CU might soon become the only football team I watch on TV. Only have CSU and Nubs that I really want to watch this season.

 

[BerkeleyBuff]

I'll watch every Buffs game I possibly can, every week, every year for as long as I'm still alive.

 

[Not Sure]

Ill never stop watching the Buffs, but I’ll admit my interest in the NFL has waned considerably over the last several years. Probably due more to the homogenization of the game than to anything else. The game is just not as exciting to me as it once was. The CTE issue will kill the game from within, IMO. Eventually there just won’t be enough players to make it viable. It’ll start at the high school level (already started) and make its way up the chain. DIII programs will start to disappear, then DII programs, and eventually DI programs. The NFL probably won’t go anywhere, but the talent level will decline.

Of course, I’ll be long dead by the time any of this comes to pass, so I guess I really don’t care one way or the other.

 

[MtnBuff]

Ill never stop watching the Buffs, but I’ll admit my interest in the NFL has waned considerably over the last several years. Probably due more to the homogenization of the game than to anything else. The game is just not as exciting to me as it once was. The CTE issue will kill the game from within, IMO. Eventually there just won’t be enough players to make it viable. It’ll start at the high school level (already started) and make its way up the chain. DIII programs will start to disappear, then DII programs, and eventually DI programs. The NFL probably won’t go anywhere, but the talent level will decline.

Of course, I’ll be long dead by the time any of this comes to pass, so I guess I really don’t care one way or the other.

Agree with you on the homogenization of the game.

I don't think CTE will be the end of the game any more that the rash of knee injuries were in the 70' and 80's.

There is a decline in participation at the high school level but not a huge percentage. There is also a decline in participation in all HS sports. Kids who do not focus on one sport are getting pushed aside in many cases.

There also could be a decline in the number of college programs, especially at the D3 and D2 levels because the cost of participating just keeps going up and those programs don't generate a lot of revenue. We are not far from $1000 helmets and unlike the past when they could be refurbished every few years these will have a fairly short lifespan then need replacing.

While there are fewer kids overall playing HS football there are more playing it at a higher level. The schools in the top leagues that have traditionally produced most D1 players are still strong and those kids are now training year around. The talent is not going to dry up.

 

[DBT]

I was a rabid sports fan when I was young. I think a lot of that is the competitive nature of young males which is inate. A human trait. But as we age that inate competitive nature changes. Our testosterone levels drop. Our priorities change. It’s a pretty interesting dynamic which effects much more than our sports viewing habits. There is a reason we have 18 to 25 year old males fight our wars.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Agree with you on the homogenization of the game.

I don't think CTE will be the end of the game any more that the rash of knee injuries were in the 70' and 80's.

There is a decline in participation at the high school level but not a huge percentage. There is also a decline in participation in all HS sports. Kids who do not focus on one sport are getting pushed aside in many cases.

There also could be a decline in the number of college programs, especially at the D3 and D2 levels because the cost of participating just keeps going up and those programs don't generate a lot of revenue. We are not far from $1000 helmets and unlike the past when they could be refurbished every few years these will have a fairly short lifespan then need replacing.

While there are fewer kids overall playing HS football there are more playing it at a higher level. The schools in the top leagues that have traditionally produced most D1 players are still strong and those kids are now training year around. The talent is not going to dry up.

Especially when you consider that less than 2% of all college players actually make it to the NFL, it's absurd to think the talent pool is just going to dry up and create a shortage of NFL-caliber players.

 

[8Jah]

For me, there is reason for big concern and honesty about potential harm, but the jury is still out. When they have good ways to scan the brains of all living players and a big cross section of the population, then we will know much more.

If data comes in that says all aspects of football (blocking/tackling/hitting turf) cause CTE in all participants, then it could possibly end football...or at least make it unwatchable. I think this is very possible.

It could just as easily be that only certain people are susceptible to CTE and these people can be screened out before they play.

It could also be the case that there is some new technology to heal the brain.

We may find that CTE is a bigger problem in public health. Maybe the cause of PTSD in soldiers, depression, some forms of psychopathy, etc... Maybe people prone to CTE are more likely to want to play football, and we are confusing correlation with causation. Maybe I have CTE...

Time to put the kind of big-time dough that goes into things like the NFL and college sports into the needed medical research.

 

[MtnBuff]

For me, there is reason for big concern and honesty about potential harm, but the jury is still out. When they have good ways to scan the brains of all living players and a big cross section of the population, then we will know much more.

If data comes in that says all aspects of football (blocking/tackling/hitting turf) cause CTE in all participants, then it could possibly end football...or at least make it unwatchable. I think this is very possible.

It could just as easily be that only certain people are susceptible to CTE and these people can be screened out before they play.

It could also be the case that there is some new technology to heal the brain.

We may find that CTE is a bigger problem in public health. Maybe the cause of PTSD in soldiers, depression, some forms of psychopathy, etc... Maybe people prone to CTE are more likely to want to play football, and we are confusing correlation with causation. Maybe I have CTE...

Time to put the kind of big-time dough that goes into things like the NFL and college sports into the needed medical research.

You hit on an important point. I think that as time goes by we are going to find the CTE is much more common than we are now aware.

It makes sense that the bumps and jars from playing football would cause the brain to bounce around and damage itself. So many other things though could as well. How about somebody riding a dirt bike with the constant bumping and jarring, how about someone who runs with a stiff gait transferring the shock from the heel up through the spine, what about the movement to the brain while riding a horse, how about people who swing their heads violently to music?

Maybe even commonplace things like the jarring of sitting in a bus going over rough streets every day. As populations live longer we see a lot more memory loss and other neurological disorders. How much of this will be traced back the the CTE we are focused on or other similar but less obvious damage.

Could be a game changer for many people.

 

[SerenityBuff]

A little dramatic...

As someone who has grown up around the sport, played the sport, coached the sport and am admittedly slightly obsessed with the sport, this discussion has become one of my biggest pet peeves. I can't tell you how many times I'd be over at my sister and BIL's house last Fall watching a Buffs/Broncos game and hear them say they'd never let their sons play. They buy them jerseys, host watch parties, take them to games, and have them both playing flag football, yet they'll "never allow them to play". I understand we are all hypocrites in one way or another, but it doesn't make it any less irritating for me in this situation.

I was also just pointing out while so many of us voice displeasure with so many aspects of football, including the health issues, nothing has really stopped people from tuning in each Saturday and Sunday.

Just curious. Do you have sons? Before I did, I thought more like you do now. Now that I have a son, I completely understand the protection aspect of it. I don't think buying your child a jersey or watching a game with them while at the same time not wanting to subject them to years of repeated head trauma makes you a hypocrite.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Just curious. Do you have sons? Before I did, I thought more like you do now. Now that I have a son, I completely understand the protection aspect of it. I don't think buying your child a jersey or watching a game with them while at the same time not wanting to subject them to years of repeated head trauma makes you a hypocrite.

I don't have kids. There's a difference between not wanting to subject them to injury (of course not) and strictly not allowing them to play football, even if that's what they specifically want to do.

 

[onealcd]

Just shows you how little we actually know about CTE but there as an article yesterday talking about how they found CTE in a patient who had no history of concussions. Sorry that I didn't save the link when I saw it.