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'15 CO ATH Andrew Wingard (Verbal to Wyoming)

The Ogre said:
Good for him.

Gentry and now Wingard. Two in-state kids who would have preferred to wear the Black and Gold, but ended up in mustard and brown, and weren't seriously pursued. There are plenty of other similar examples. I recall MacIntyre's big show of having staff visit most Colorado high schools, but did they come to the same wrong conclusion that so many ABers have?

It's an in exact science, sure. All things equal, Colorado kids on the field help fill the seats and create interest that matters. The fact that some here don't give two ****s where a kid is from doesn't change that.
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I've mentioned this before, but CU had 2 recruiting spots for safeties that recruiting class. One for a JUCO who could backfill and one for a freshman to develop. CU signed Laguda and Fisher. I think this worked out well for all parties.
 
The Ogre said:
Good for him.

Gentry and now Wingard. Two in-state kids who would have preferred to wear the Black and Gold, but ended up in mustard and brown, and weren't seriously pursued. There are plenty of other similar examples. I recall MacIntyre's big show of having staff visit most Colorado high schools, but did they come to the same wrong conclusion that so many ABers have?

It's an in exact science, sure. All things equal, Colorado kids on the field help fill the seats and create interest that matters. The fact that some here don't give two ****s where a kid is from doesn't change that.
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Two things.

There will always be a couple of kids who "got away." State of Colorado produces what 15-18 kids a year who end up at the G5 or FCS level. Odds are that at least one or two of those kids is going to shine, great when they do. We can't afford to fill our recruiting classes with these kids hoping not to miss on the kids who outperform expectations.

Secondly, success for a kid like this is often a product of his fit into a system and a level of competition. The notice he is getting here is about his run support, looks a lot like he would be a good fit at the Buff Backer spot we are running but would he be playing ahead of Moeller and Worthington there. We have already seen how PAC offenses have gone after those two taking advantage of them on coverage, would Wingard be able to stay with and cover the talent level of receivers week to week in the PAC?

Great to see him do well. Who knows he might even find himself in an NFL system where he can stick and contribute. That doesn't mean that he would have been a great success at CU.
 
MtnBuff said:
Two things.

There will always be a couple of kids who "got away." State of Colorado produces what 15-18 kids a year who end up at the G5 or FCS level. Odds are that at least one or two of those kids is going to shine, great when they do. We can't afford to fill our recruiting classes with these kids hoping not to miss on the kids who outperform expectations.

Secondly, success for a kid like this is often a product of his fit into a system and a level of competition. The notice he is getting here is about his run support, looks a lot like he would be a good fit at the Buff Backer spot we are running but would he be playing ahead of Moeller and Worthington there. We have already seen how PAC offenses have gone after those two taking advantage of them on coverage, would Wingard be able to stay with and cover the talent level of receivers week to week in the PAC?

Great to see him do well. Who knows he might even find himself in an NFL system where he can stick and contribute. That doesn't mean that he would have been a great success at CU.
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You continue to make things up as you go... Sigh.

Wingard is currently tied for 5th in the country with 4 INTs this season (#1 has 6), and has the 4th most total tackles among all FBS Safeties. He is also a 3 year starter and was a 1st team Freshman All-American in 2015.

You can talk about in-state kids getting away, the lack of offers, no spots left for DBs in that class, etc. I understand all of that and the more I've been around this site and paid attention to recruiting, the more clear it has become. Just stop making things up or trying to force a narrative that doesn't exist.
 
TSchekler said:
You continue to make things up as you go... Sigh.

Wingard is currently tied for 5th in the country with 4 INTs this season (#1 has 6), and has the 4th most total tackles among all FBS Safeties. He is also a 3 year starter and was a 1st team Freshman All-American in 2015.

You can talk about in-state kids getting away, the lack of offers, no spots left for DBs in that class, etc. I understand all of that and the more I've been around this site and paid attention to recruiting, the more clear it has become. Just stop making things up or trying to force a narrative that doesn't exist.
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Are you nucking futz? I said nothing about spots left in the class, offers, etc. those were other posters. You are trying to force a narrative and make stuff up.

No question that Wingard has done great. All I stated is that coming out of HS he was comparable by the coaches to a bunch of other guys who also went to non-P5 schools. Come up with a 100% sure way of knowing which of those kids are going to develop into outstanding players and you could make a lot of money. I don't think you are smarter than all the P5 coaching staffs, including ours, that decided to pass on Wingard. I would still ask how many winning P5 programs would he be starting for, the MWC is not P5 football. He would start for many but certainly not close to all.

There are a bunch of kids in the NFL who played at other than P5 schools, who didn't get recruited by their home state flagship university. They don't mean that those schools should go out and fill their classes with home state kids who aren't recruited by other P5 schools hoping to not miss the ones who turn out better than expected.
 
MtnBuff said:
Are you nucking futz? I said nothing about spots left in the class, offers, etc. those were other posters. You are trying to force a narrative and make stuff up.

No question that Wingard has done great. All I stated is that coming out of HS he was comparable by the coaches to a bunch of other guys who also went to non-P5 schools. Come up with a 100% sure way of knowing which of those kids are going to develop into outstanding players and you could make a lot of money. I don't think you are smarter than all the P5 coaching staffs, including ours, that decided to pass on Wingard. I would still ask how many winning P5 programs would he be starting for, the MWC is not P5 football. He would start for many but certainly not close to all.

There are a bunch of kids in the NFL who played at other than P5 schools, who didn't get recruited by their home state flagship university. They don't mean that those schools should go out and fill their classes with home state kids who aren't recruited by other P5 schools hoping to not miss the ones who turn out better than expected.
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You missed his point. His point was that the stuff about spots in the class, offers, etc. are valid points because you can't take everybody. His issue was with the other ideas you proposed regarding Wingard. Dude's a good D1 football player. Period.
 
Buffnik said:
You missed his point. His point was that the stuff about spots in the class, offers, etc. are valid points because you can't take everybody. His issue was with the other ideas you proposed regarding Wingard. Dude's a good D1 football player. Period.
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Yes, thank you.
MtnBuff said:
I don't think you are smarter than all the P5 coaching staffs, including ours, that decided to pass on Wingard
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In my younger, more immature days on Allbuffs, I actually argued pretty hard about taking Wingard. My argument may have been misguided at the time, without knowing more about recruiting, class/positional balance, offers, etc. but I had really good reason to believe he was going to be a stud.
 
Buffnik said:
You missed his point. His point was that the stuff about spots in the class, offers, etc. are valid points because you can't take everybody. His issue was with the other ideas you proposed regarding Wingard. Dude's a good D1 football player. Period.
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Didn't say he wasn't, in fact said he was. Mentioned a potential future in the NFL.

My post which drew the first response was in response to @Ogre posting how CU had basically missed on Wingard and Gentry. CU did miss on Wingard and Gentry, if they could go back and do it again based on what we know now they would have found a way to make space for them.

Fact is though that Wingard didn't get a CU offer, he also didn't get an offer from other P5 programs and even from some other local/regional G5 programs, Wyoming took a chance on him that has obviously worked out.

Now I will still stand by though the idea that part of his success is because of the level of competition and the system he plays in. For what he does most winning P5 schools have guys who measure better, part of why they didn't go after him in the first place.

Again, he is a very good player and as I stated to start with it is great to see him doing well. Point is that because a couple of Colorado kids do well at Wyoming doesn't mean that we should start giving this level of kids in Colorado priority over out of state kids who the staff projects as being better.

Not bashing him at all, just saying CU can't bring in 15-20 in-state kids a year trying to make sure Wyoming doesn't end up the couple who turn out to be much better than they were projected to be.
 
Buffnik said:
I've mentioned this before, but CU had 2 recruiting spots for safeties that recruiting class. One for a JUCO who could backfill and one for a freshman to develop. CU signed Laguda and Fisher. I think this worked out well for all parties.
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I don't disagree. You roll the dice and hope your analysis is right, some classes allow for more finagling than others.

My broader point seems lost on some who didn't grow up and stay in one state (Colorado, for instance). No world beater, but even Meuller wasn't offered; that's worked out fairly well. There is plenty of dead weight on the roster from can't-miss football factory states.

People who have spent most of their lives in Colorado react to local kids, BMac took quite a few, even from tiny schools, over the years. At the margins, it helps broaden the fan base. Nobody is asking to bring in "15-20" or even 10 in-state kids. It's kind of like watching two NFL teams I don't particularly care about - Buffs on the roster weigh heavily on my rooting interest.
 
The Ogre said:
I don't disagree. You roll the dice and hope your analysis is right, some classes allow for more finagling than others.

My broader point seems lost on some who didn't grow up and stay in one state (Colorado, for instance). No world beater, but even Meuller wasn't offered; that's worked out fairly well. There is plenty of dead weight on the roster from can't-miss football factory states.

People who have spent most of their lives in Colorado react to local kids, BMac took quite a few, even from tiny schools, over the years. At the margins, it helps broaden the fan base. Nobody is asking to bring in "15-20" or even 10 in-state kids. It's kind of like watching two NFL teams I don't particularly care about - Buffs on the roster weigh heavily on my rooting interest.
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I will take all the Phil Lindsays we can get. Give me the Isaac Millers of the world, the Tim Lynotts. Number of others as well.

I don't like it when a Colorado kid who is clearly good enough to play for us leaves, I know some will but I want them to stay.

The problem is that nobody knows exactly who will be good and who won't. They have to look at what they see, what they can project and do the best they can. Wingard is certainly a player who ended up much better than the coaches though he would. It wasn't just them, he played in a league that gets attention from plenty of out of state schools and they didn't offer him either. I can guarantee you that Nebraska would probably rather have Wingard than either of the two CO kids they took from Pine Creek as DBs.

CU should go hard after the CO kids who look to be good enough to play at the PAC level. Sometimes they are going to miss (both directions) but I don't blame them for not taking a kid that didn't even have multiple G5 offers much less P5.
 
MtnBuff said:
The problem is that nobody knows exactly who will be good and who won't. They have to look at what they see, what they can project and do the best they can. Wingard is certainly a player who ended up much . I can guarantee you that Nebraska would probably rather have Wingard than either of the two CO kids they took from Pine Creek as DBs.
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Stop passing off your opinion as fact!
Mac absolutely knew Wingard was a stud and he recruited him to the end. He just couldn't take another safety.

And Nebraska is ok with Lee. Your statement above is not a fact.
 
The Ogre said:
I don't disagree. You roll the dice and hope your analysis is right, some classes allow for more finagling than others.

My broader point seems lost on some who didn't grow up and stay in one state (Colorado, for instance). No world beater, but even Meuller wasn't offered; that's worked out fairly well. There is plenty of dead weight on the roster from can't-miss football factory states.

People who have spent most of their lives in Colorado react to local kids, BMac took quite a few, even from tiny schools, over the years. At the margins, it helps broaden the fan base. Nobody is asking to bring in "15-20" or even 10 in-state kids. It's kind of like watching two NFL teams I don't particularly care about - Buffs on the roster weigh heavily on my rooting interest.
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Sounds like MacIntyre is doing exactly what you want him to do with in-state players.
 
buffaholic said:
Stop passing off your opinion as fact!
Mac absolutely knew Wingard was a stud and he recruited him to the end. He just couldn't take another safety.

And Nebraska is ok with Lee. Your statement above is not a fact.
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So he knew he was a stud but didn't find a spot for him? Interesting, the coaches told you that. Seems strange.
And Nebraska is good with Lee but had they known Wingard was going to play this well they would have gladly taken him, as would a bunch of other schools that also passed on him at the time.

Fact is that he was good enough to get looked at coming out of HS but has far outperformed the expectations coaches had for him, or they would have found a way to offer him a scholly.

Love that a Colorado kid is doing great proving everybody wrong but don't act like the coaches expected him to do this.
 
Wingard not garnering P5 offers wasn’t due to other programs doing a thorough evaluation and deciding he wasn’t good enough. There just wasn’t much to evaluate him on the defensive side of the ball as he probably only played 15-20% of the defensive snaps in high school (he was never going to be given a look on offense). Mac had obviously seen enough of him to recruit him until the end, but unfortunately for Wingard, the numbers didn’t work out at CU.

He could have easily chosen to go the Ryan Moeller route and walked on and hoped he was able earn a scholarship one day, but decided to take his full ride to a place that really wanted him. It’s working out for all parties involved, but he should not be viewed as a guy who “just wasn’t good enough to play at the P5 level”. He is/was.
 
The Ogre said:
People who have spent most of their lives in Colorado react to local kids, BMac took quite a few, even from tiny schools, over the years. At the margins, it helps broaden the fan base. Nobody is asking to bring in "15-20" or even 10 in-state kids. It's kind of like watching two NFL teams I don't particularly care about - Buffs on the roster weigh heavily on my rooting interest.
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Completely agree - across all sports.
 
Duff Man said:
Sounds like MacIntyre is doing exactly what you want him to do with in-state players.
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No. Close, but there are some misses I find frustrating - especially going back a couple years when more of the guys he took weren't sought by many other P5 programs.

You and Mountain are really tenacious on this one. We don't need to agree on how - just that we enjoy following the Buffs.
 
The Ogre said:
No. Close, but there are some misses I find frustrating - especially going back a couple years when more of the guys he took weren't sought by many other P5 programs.

You and Mountain are really tenacious on this one. We don't need to agree on how - just that we enjoy following the Buffs.
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I just think the misses are going to happen, you cannot let that distract from the bigger picture. The in-state strategy is going pretty well, especially in numbers.

I think there are areas in recruiting to feel like the staff is not measuring up, in-state recruiting is well down the list.
 
I have met his dad and spoken to him a few times. He has said that his size coming out of HS was the biggest factor. He was only 170ish as a senior and most P5's don't want to develop as much as they all lead on. The ability was never in question by anyone but most of the family members are average size at best. Washington loved him in their camp and offered a PWO saying that "he would need a little more meat on his bones" in order to get a schollie. Wyo's roster now shows him at 209 lbs. He doesn't blame anyone for not pulling the trigger and has said that he doesn't think those that missed have batted an eye (as far as a "miss" goes) as they go with what they feel at the time based on their own needs/criteria. It has been a great fit and he has most certainly excelled in Laramie.
 
PokeBuff said:
I have met his dad and spoken to him a few times. He has said that his size coming out of HS was the biggest factor. He was only 170ish as a senior and most P5's don't want to develop as much as they all lead on. The ability was never in question by anyone but most of the family members are average size at best. Washington loved him in their camp and offered a PWO saying that "he would need a little more meat on his bones" in order to get a schollie. Wyo's roster now shows him at 209 lbs. He doesn't blame anyone for not pulling the trigger and has said that he doesn't think those that missed have batted an eye (as far as a "miss" goes) as they go with what they feel at the time based on their own needs/criteria. It has been a great fit and he has most certainly excelled in Laramie.
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Yeah, he looks like a completely different guy now, physically, compared to when he was in high school. Added like 15-20 lbs of muscle during his first year in Laramie. Very similar in that area to Nick Fisher, IMO.
 
A quick and probably inaccurate count on the Wyoming roster gave me 24 players from Colorado spread over all classes. Don't know if any are walk-ons but it confirms what we have seen for a long time. Wyoming has had a lot of success in giving Colorado HS kids a chance to play college football. The people I have met who went to school there almost always had a great experience. Makes them easy to pull for.

When we see a guy like Wingard who has not only been successful but exceeded expectations it is hard not to cheer for him and them.
 
JMBuffs said:
Worthington will jump up this list as the season gets rolling. I love his transformation!
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Worthington is going to be popular with the pros because he has the size and physicality to have the versatility that the league likes.
 
That’s the last time I’ll listen to Flounder and Quat...umm.....’tini for recruiting recommendations!
 
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