I hope so.
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'19 TNFR QB Jalen Hurts (Committed to Oklahoma)
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
WarBuff
Club Member
Really hoping the new staff can run an offense where opposing defenses aren’t yelling out the play that we will be running. Hard enough competing when the opposition doesn’t quite know the play, but almost impossible when they do. I have to believe that the line got so discouraged by the lack of deception that their will to
compete completely collapsed.
I don't think for most people it's a matter if no respect. For some obviously, but for the most part I think a lot of the people on this board see a average QB who will never live up to what his physical potential is because he doesn't read defenses well and he panics when he is under pressure. I think Hurts can read defenses just as well as Montez if not better and he's more athletic. Not as talented with his arm but I think if either one is playing here next year, very good chance to get to a bowl game.
Agreed. The fact that Montez was still turning his back and retreating for 20 yard sacks as a junior rather than stepping up in the pocket or moving laterally while keeping his eyes downfield tells me he's not likely stop those drive killing awful plays. Two different QB coaches failed to break that habit. He does a lot well but he just doesn't have that natural pocket presence you want to see and doesn't read defenses well. Montez has a better arm and may be viewed as a better pro prospect, but I do believe that Jalen Hurts is a better college QB.
If Montez is the guy in 2019 as he very likely will be then I hope the third QB coach is the charm and he lives up to his potential. I have my criticisms but of course I want to see him be great.
(Confession: When I woke up and groggily checked Allbuffs the day Jalen Harris committed to transfer here I thought for just a minute that it said Jalen Hurts. My heart fluttered a little.
)
Ouch!
You lost me at serious upgrade. Might be a better fit for the scheme Johnson wants to run but he has major limitations that could be exposed on a team like CU
I think the leadership void Montez has largely contributed to cannot be ignored in this situation. 0-10 in bowl eligibility games is straight up dysfunctional. A big shakeup, not just the coaching staff but with players as well, could pay off nicely for a team realistically just looking to win 6-7 games in 2019.
After watching every Bama game this season, I think it’s safe to say Hurts’ limitations as a passer were significantly improved this season. He was much more accurate and threw with more anticipation. Hurts’ skills as a runner far exceed anybody’s on the current QB roster. In the new scheme (which I see as a pistol spread with a ton of RPO & ZR), I think this is why he’d be a major upgrade over Montez or anybody else. Remember, Montez is generally accurate but not accurate in what are safe throws in most offenses (crossers and slants). For whatever reason, on these throws, Montez is less accurate because he throws behind route runners going diagonally.
Yeah I watched plenty of his games too and I just don’t agree with that. He is still a one read and tuck it guy who struggles throwing in tight windows or throwing people open. Yes he is a great runner but he isn’t going to have near the same blocking and open boxes that he did at bama.
As a backup, Hurts posted major improvement in his career passing numbers. His completion rate was way higher, as were yards per attempt and attempted yards per attempt. It is weird that you claim that you watched every Bama game in 2018 but didn’t notice Hurts as a dramatically better passer than he was in previous seasons.
Our terrible OL from LY will have way better coaching and a scheme that will minimize their deficiencies. Hurts fits that scheme better Montez and is more accurate in the common throws of the new scheme than Montez. Plus, Hurts is a way better runner than Montez.
lawdogg
Club Member
I’m probably higher on Montez than some others, but behind if the concern is how a QB is going to perform behind a spotty offensive line, wouldn’t you think the one with superior mobility gives your offense a better chance to be successful?
He went from a starter to a backup playing in garbage time and spot duty in injury situations.
Not necessarily. Quarterbacks that get the ball out of their hands quickly are more effective in helping an offensive line than a mobile guy with limited passing ability.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
Hurts is still a one read passer. He was playing against back ups in all but the Georgia game.
lawdogg
Club Member
Are you arguing that getting the ball out of his hands quickly was an area of strength for Montez? I guess my question, and I really don’t know the answer, is which skill set is more likely to succeed behind the offensive line CU is going to roll out in 2019—Montez’s, or Hurts’s?
brettden
Well-Known Member
Hurts > Montez if both competed on 2018 CU team. Hurts > Montez probable if both competed with 2019 CU team. Neither will stun you with accuracy or decision making. Hurts is a better playmaker in both the passing game and the running game because he is a better athlete. Now if Montez could settle down in pressure situations and make the plays that are there to be made, and look as good at the end of the year against USC as he does at the beginning of the year against CSU the analysis would change. Based strictly off performance thus far no way you chose Montez over Hurts.
I don't really think it matters much in the end but more upside with Montez if the coaches can get the line figured out. I have been complaining about the way they use Montez for the past two years though so hopefully that changed this year.
I watched all of the games. I understand what happened. Hurts didn’t play against backups even when Bama was up big. My only contentions are: 1) Hurts improved as a passer in 2019. This is not in doubt. 2) Hurts is way better than Montez at the new scheme. That’s because Hurts is much more competent at making slant and crossing throws (the actual ones the new offense will feature). Montez was abysmal at these types of throws in 2018, as he typically threw behind his targets when attempting these passes. In 2019, Colorado will be running a new offense (pistol with RPO and Zone Read). It is a one or two read offense. It is irrelevant if Hurts isn’t a nuanced pocket passer. The new offense does not demand a nuanced pocket passer.
You don’t want to acknowledge or offer any facts/data to advance the discussion, so best wishes.
JMBuffs
Well-Known Member
I often refer to others as 'experts' because I am, at the best, a fan and observer of the game and not an expert. At times I struggle to interpret and disseminate true talent and skill versus systems and situational success.
In this argument I stand on the side of Hurts being an upgrade plug-in to our new offensive system (no disrespect to Montez) upon which the opposing side seems to believe that Hurts is a marginal QB who would not be an upgrade to our program compared to the talent we have. I can respect the opposition as I have barely observed 10% of the games Hurts has played. BUT, nobody has compared stats as a identifiable data point to support this...so here we go.
Hurts
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Montez
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In this argument I stand on the side of Hurts being an upgrade plug-in to our new offensive system (no disrespect to Montez) upon which the opposing side seems to believe that Hurts is a marginal QB who would not be an upgrade to our program compared to the talent we have. I can respect the opposition as I have barely observed 10% of the games Hurts has played. BUT, nobody has compared stats as a identifiable data point to support this...so here we go.
Hurts
| Passing | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Year | School | Conf | Class | Pos | G | Cmp | Att | Pct | Yds | Y/A | AY/A | TD | Int | Rate |
| *2016 | Alabama | SEC | FR | QB | 15 | 240 | 382 | 62.8 | 2780 | 7.3 | 7.4 | 23 | 9 | 139.1 |
| *2017 | Alabama | SEC | SO | QB | 14 | 154 | 255 | 60.4 | 2081 | 8.2 | 9.3 | 17 | 1 | 150.2 |
| *2018 | Alabama | SEC | JR | QB | 13 | 51 | 70 | 72.9 | 765 | 10.9 | 11.9 | 8 | 2 | 196.7 |
| Career | Alabama | 445 | 707 | 62.9 | 5626 | 8.0 | 8.6 | 48 | 12 | 148.8 |
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| Year | School | Conf | Class | Pos | G | Att | Yds | Avg | TD | Rec | Yds | Avg | TD | Plays | Yds | Avg | TD |
| *2016 | Alabama | SEC | FR | QB | 15 | 191 | 954 | 5.0 | 13 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 191 | 954 | 5.0 | 13 | |
| *2017 | Alabama | SEC | SO | QB | 14 | 154 | 855 | 5.6 | 8 | 1 | -1 | -1.0 | 0 | 155 | 854 | 5.5 | 8 |
| *2018 | Alabama | SEC | JR | QB | 13 | 36 | 167 | 4.6 | 2 | 2 | 16 | 8.0 | 0 | 38 | 183 | 4.8 | 2 |
| Career | Alabama | 381 | 1976 | 5.2 | 23 | 3 | 15 | 5.0 | 0 | 384 | 1991 | 5.2 | 23 |
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Montez
| Passing | ||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Year | School | Conf | Class | Pos | G | Cmp | Att | Pct | Yds | Y/A | AY/A | TD | Int | Rate |
| 2015 | Colorado | Pac-12 | FR | QB | ||||||||||
| *2016 | Colorado | Pac-12 | SO | QB | 9 | 83 | 140 | 59.3 | 1078 | 7.7 | 7.4 | 9 | 5 | 138.0 |
| 2017 | Colorado | Pac-12 | SO | QB | 12 | 228 | 377 | 60.5 | 2975 | 7.9 | 7.8 | 18 | 9 | 137.7 |
| 2018 | Colorado | Pac-12 | JR | QB | 12 | 258 | 399 | 64.7 | 2849 | 7.1 | 7.1 | 19 | 9 | 135.8 |
| Career | Colorado | 569 | 916 | 62.1 | 6902 | 7.5 | 7.4 | 46 | 23 | 137.0 |
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| Year | School | Conf | Class | Pos | G | Att | Yds | Avg | TD | Rec | Yds | Avg | TD | Plays | Yds | Avg | TD |
| 2015 | Colorado | Pac-12 | FR | QB | 0 | 0 | 0 | ||||||||||
| *2016 | Colorado | Pac-12 | SO | QB | 9 | 52 | 231 | 4.4 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 52 | 231 | 4.4 | 1 | |
| 2017 | Colorado | Pac-12 | SO | QB | 12 | 132 | 338 | 2.6 | 3 | 1 | 11 | 11.0 | 1 | 133 | 349 | 2.6 | 4 |
| 2018 | Colorado | Pac-12 | JR | QB | 12 | 94 | 238 | 2.5 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 94 | 238 | 2.5 | 4 | |
| Career | Colorado | 278 | 807 | 2.9 | 8 | 1 | 11 | 11.0 | 1 | 279 | 818 | 2.9 | 9 |
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Oh here come the stats/facts arguments again when you don't put any perspective on them. Is bama playing against backups when they are up that many points? Yes, there are definitely some guys in there in garbage time that wouldn't be in there at the beginning of the game. Is Alabama getting the same amount of effort in a game in which they are up 40 points? No they clearly aren't. Hurts had basically the same passer rating as Tua but you can tell they aren't anywhere near one another watching the games. Did he improve a little bit? Of course he did, that is a natural progression but he is still a one read and run QB. Hurts is an amazing runner, like I said before and could be a better fit in the new offense, again like I said before, but Montez can also run, has a better arm, is more accurate and throws a better deep ball. People acting like he would be some huge upgrade are out of touch with who Hurts really is.
Exactly.
Out of curiosity, does anyone here actually think we have a real chance at getting Jalen?
Im not a huge football guy, but best I can tell, doesn't seem like much of a debate who the better player is between Montez and Hurts. I like Montez, but seems like a bit of a leap saying that he is better.
Im not a huge football guy, but best I can tell, doesn't seem like much of a debate who the better player is between Montez and Hurts. I like Montez, but seems like a bit of a leap saying that he is better.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
Airwave pilots in this quadrant are reporting it will be between Maryland, OU, TCU and 1 other (I think I heard Miami, but I was making a left turn, so don't quote me).
TCU and Maryland make a lot of sense. The favorite out of Vegas yesterday was Houston. I think it would be really interesting to see him fun Riley's system at OU, that doesn't seem like the best fit and I would think they would go young with some of the talent they are bringing in/brought in.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
Him at OU would be a terrible fit.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
TCU was in the hunt during his hs recruitment and since he's from tejass it wouldn't surprise me if that's where he goes. Houston might be more in play now that Holgo is there.
Maryland is the one I don't get.
Just based on his OC becoming the head coach there, that’s all.