Andre (Edit: LEAVING FOR NBA)

[tante]

Which is what I'd expect on an internet sports forum... Anyway, you speak the truth. I just tend to think his senior year would've been extremely valuable (in a number of ways), and more valuable than a D league season. Seems like Coach Boyle felt that way also.

Would you agree he had a better chance getting drafted this year versus next year?

 

[Medford M.]

Would you agree he had a better chance getting drafted this year versus next year?

I would say no, but he'd have his degree finished up if he left after next year. The numbers are surprisingly low for kids who leave early, even after 3 years, coming back to get their degrees.

 

[tante]

I would say no, but he'd have his degree finished up if he left after next year. The numbers are surprisingly low for kids who leave early, even after 3 years, coming back to get their degrees.

I agree on your degree statement but his dream is not to get a degree from CU, it is to play in the NBA. If it was me, I would be working on achieving my NBA dream and worry about school later.

 

[Medford M.]

I agree on your degree statement but his dream is not to get a degree from CU, it is to play in the NBA. If it was me, I would be working on achieving my NBA dream and worry about school later.

Wouldn't you say that's rather short sighted thinking though?

 

[tante]

Wouldn't you say that's rather short sighted thinking though?

I don't think it was a hastily made decision and I'm sure the pros and cons were both made. Did Bill Gates or Zuckerberg miss their college degrees? They also took risks to chase their dreams.

Dre appears to have a great support system at home and that family understands what it means to go pro. So for him I don't think it was short sided and if I wanted to play in the NBA then yes.

 

[absinthe]

Wouldn't you say that's rather short sighted thinking though?

speaking as the relative of someone who left early to play professionally, no it isnt, you take your shot when you have it, you may never get another.

 

[COhoops]

Would you agree he had a better chance getting drafted this year versus next year?

I don't think leaving early gave him much of an advantage. He's leaving on a year where he shot 55% from FT line, 33% from 3, and FG 48%. Every single one of those is down from the year before. Especially when assessing him as a small forward. Those are not NBA small forward numbers. That is the definition of "stock down". I understand the argument that another year without improvement would've assured him of not being drafted.... But if he thinks he peaked as a sophomore in college, and doesn't believe development would be possible, that speaks for itself. I believe he could've improved those shooting %'s, but I agree that doesn't guarantee his draft status... He would have to drastically improve his shooting and that may not have happened.

So basically, I think he's in the same spot either year. The difference being the value of finishing at CU on and off the floor.

 

[Quattro]

I don't think leaving early gave him much of an advantage. He's leaving on a year where he shot 55% from FT line, 33% from 3, and FG 48%. Every single one of those is down from the year before. Especially when assessing him as a small forward. Those are not NBA small forward numbers. That is the definition of "stock down". I understand the argument that another year without improvement would've assured him of not being drafted.... But if he thinks he peaked as a sophomore in college, and doesn't believe development would be possible, that speaks for itself. I believe he could've improved those shooting %'s, but I agree that doesn't guarantee his draft status... He would have to drastically improve his shooting and that may not have happened.

So basically, I think he's in the same spot either year. The difference being the value of finishing at CU on and off the floor.

You're assuming that the talent level in each draft is constant, which it isn't. This is a weak draft, next years is not.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Ya know what we can do with this situation? We can root him on, no matter where this road leads. Bantering about whether the decision was right, wrong, or indifferent, is kinda moot now.

 

[COhoops]

You're assuming that the talent level in each draft is constant, which it isn't. This is a weak draft, next years is not.

The talent level in the NBA is consistent, so is the roster space. Getting drafted in the late second round doesn't guarantee you make the team, which is the important part since there isn't much difference between those picks and free agents.

 

[Buffnik]

Ya know what we can do with this situation? We can root him on, no matter where this road leads. Bantering about whether the decision was right, wrong, or indifferent, is kinda moot now.

That's where I'm at.

 

[wyobuff]

Agreed. He's leaving, and yesterday when I looked at the nba big board he was #38, so he's moving up a bit.
I wish him the best of luck and know he'll work hard.
I'm just not sure WTF Im gonna do when mark johnson says something other than "roberson with the rebound" next year.
that's ​what is going to take some getting used to.

 

[Quattro]

The talent level in the NBA is consistent, so is the roster space. Getting drafted in the late second round doesn't guarantee you make the team, which is the important part since there isn't much difference between those picks and free agents.

The talent being drafted is absolutely not constant. Are you saying this class is as strong as the 2003 class with Melo, LBJ, and Wade? Or the 1998 class right Dirk, Paul Pierce, and Vince Carter to name a few players?

A lot of good player a decided to come back for the 2013-2014 season, like the guy from Louisville and the guy from Oklahoma State. Those types of players will be in the draft next year and with each of them they take up a draft spot which could, and probably would, bump Dre down.

 

[tante]

The talent being drafted is absolutely not constant. Are you saying this class is as strong as the 2003 class with Melo, LBJ, and Wade? Or the 1998 class right Dirk, Paul Pierce, and Vince Carter to name a few players?

A lot of good player a decided to come back for the 2013-2014 season, like the guy from Louisville and the guy from Oklahoma State. Those types of players will be in the draft next year and with each of them they take up a draft spot which could, and probably would, bump Dre down.

it would be interesting to see if there was a metric that showed total minutes played by draft class. The 2003 was very top heavy, but maybe some other class had a bunch of quality players but few studs. I think dre has a unique skill set that doesn't fit with every team (kinda silly that not every team would covet a good defender and rebounder) but most teams can afford one guy like him and perhaps two. So it is not just the overall talent in the draft, it is comparable talent in the draft, teams that have a need for your skills (and an available draft pick), and making teams don't have a higher need than the skills you possess.

 

[COhoops]

The talent being drafted is absolutely not constant. Are you saying this class is as strong as the 2003 class with Melo, LBJ, and Wade? Or the 1998 class right Dirk, Paul Pierce, and Vince Carter to name a few players?

A lot of good player a decided to come back for the 2013-2014 season, like the guy from Louisville and the guy from Oklahoma State. Those types of players will be in the draft next year and with each of them they take up a draft spot which could, and probably would, bump Dre down.

I didn't say the talent in each draft is constant. I said the talent in the NBA is consistent. The rosters have great players regardless of draft strength.

Seems like Andre's dream is to play in the NBA. Getting drafted outside of the first round does not guarantee that.

He's going to have to compete with others to make a roster. Since he's not a first round pick, this would be the case whether he leaves early or not.

The main difference is that he will miss out on finishing his career at CU next year.

 

[Quattro]

I didn't say the talent in each draft is constant. I said the talent in the NBA is consistent. The rosters have great players regardless of draft strength.

Seems like Andre's dream is to play in the NBA. Getting drafted outside of the first round does not guarantee that.

He's going to have to compete with others to make a roster. Since he's not a first round pick, this would be the case whether he leaves early or not.

The main difference is that he will miss out on finishing his career at CU next year.

So what benefit would Andre have if he decided to come back aside from finishing his career at CU? Is he going to boost his draft stock? Not likely. Leaving this year will give him the best chance to make a team because teams are obviously drafting based on need and fewer (and better) players at his position will help his chances of making a roster.

 

[tante]

I didn't say the talent in each draft is constant. I said the talent in the NBA is consistent. The rosters have great players regardless of draft strength.

Seems like Andre's dream is to play in the NBA. Getting drafted outside of the first round does not guarantee that.

He's going to have to compete with others to make a roster. Since he's not a first round pick, this would be the case whether he leaves early or not.

The main difference is that he will miss out on finishing his career at CU next year.

I'm still not sure I am grasping your point here your whole concept makes no sense. Are you talking best players? worst players? the average player?

 

[Buffnik]

I disagree with this being a bad draft. It's absolutely horrible if you're picking 1-5, but if you're picking after that I think you're a pretty happy GM this year.

 

[Medford M.]

I disagree with this being a bad draft. It's absolutely horrible if you're picking 1-5, but if you're picking after that I think you're a pretty happy GM this year.

I agree. There are a lot of able bodies, but there may not be any stars in the group.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Yeah, and the most likely #1 pick (Noel) is damaged goods. He might be ready for the start of the season, but will he be 100%? How will this affect him in an 82 game season? Inquiring minds ...

If I we're the GM with this years first pick, I think I'd be trying really hard to trade out of it.

 

[mattrob]

Seems like Andre's dream is to play in the NBA. Getting drafted outside of the first round does not guarantee that.

Where does the idea that 2nd round picks are disposable commodities come from? NBA teams draft players that they believe have the ability to help them win basketball games, regardless of the round they're selected. The odds are in Dre's favor that he'll get a guaranteed deal, even as a second rounder. I've posted the numbers from last year's class multiple times, including earlier in this thread, I believe. Yet, you keep spinning this as 2nd rounders are destined for the D League, rarely get NBA deals, and are no different than FA's. That's simply not true.

 

[rolandftw]

I don't think what Andre accomplishes at the NBA level should have any bearing on his accomplishments at CU. With that said, if he did go undrafted, I'd view the entire process as the saddest moment of CU basketball (well, fan since Billups... can't say how it was like to see CU lose in the Final Four or anything)

 

[rolandftw]

Yeah, and the most likely #1 pick (Noel) is damaged goods. He might be ready for the start of the season, but will he be 100%? How will this affect him in an 82 game season? Inquiring minds ...

If I we're the GM with this years first pick, I think I'd be trying really hard to trade out of it.

You wouldn't get fair value back. Most teams accept that there isn't a franchise player in this year's draft.

Noel won't be ready by the time the season started. I've heard Christmas is when he's hoping to return. Don't think it's true that he's damaged goods, but there's always that risk.

I'd take McLemore #1 if my team won the lottery tonight. Lot of flaws in his game, but he's the only player with the potential worth taking #1 imo

 

[Creebuzz]

I think Dre gets drafted in the 2nd round and gets a contract. PF is a good value pick, which bodes well for him.

If you think a guy has the ceiling of a backup PG, there's no reason to draft him in the first round. You can get a guy like Nolan Smith in the second round. The Kings got a guy better with the No. 60 overall pick in Thomas. There's a position spectrum (point guard-center) in basketball just like there is in baseball (first baseman-catcher). It's important to understand how talent is distributed among all five positions. When it comes to borderline NBA players, the farther to the left from PG - SG - SF - PF - C, the less valuable a guy is.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/4/25/4236172/nba-draft-2013-2011-kyrie-irving-kawhi-leonard

Additionally, he's a specialist. A team with lots of scorers but in need of defense and rebounding will like what he brings.

Specialists are available in the second round. You know your team is weak under the boards? Take the guy who led the country in rebounding, like the Utah Jazz did in 2006 when they selected Paul Millsap No. 47 overall.

At the time, all Millsap was able to do was rebound and finish at the rim, but since his specialty was able to translate, he served a purpose on the floor. He was given valuable minutes early on, and in time he grew as a player and expanded his game.

If you can find a contributor in the second round, even if it's only in one department, go for it. Cheap rotation players don't just grow on trees, and the second round is a complementary tree full of potential reserves to choose from.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...nding-diamonds-in-the-nba-drafts-second-round

 

[jcatcher]

In the post-combine updated mock drafts, DraftExpress no longer has Andre getting drafted (he was somewhere in the mid-40's beforehand.) NBADraft.net has him going to Philadelphia at 42, which isn't much different than where he was before.

 

[Gold]

It's all about his summer league performance. If you're a 2nd rounder or UFA, that brief stint decides your future for the upcoming year. So no, the draft isn't the end all be all of Dre's pro career. There's no sadness if he doesn't get drafted. He didn't make a mistake. He was a summer league performance away from making an NBA roster the whole time, for both this year and next.

 

[J-R-K]

Why does everyone assume he won't improve? He may not but nothing is certain. After leaving Minnesota Colton Iverson didn't even have good enough numbers to be in the NBADL or in a credible league overseas. After one year at CSU he's now projected to be drafted in June. And if Andre isn't going to improve in college what makes people think it will happen in the NBA where he's sitting on a bench all game and going against far superior players in practice. The goal is to be drafted but to also have staying power once there. If he's not ready and then washes out of the league then what good does that do? Regardless of where he would be drafted I think staying would be better prepare him the NBA and increase the likelihood of a successful career and increase his earning power down the road. It's a gamble but think of it like a long-term investment, give up something in the short term with eyes towards the future.

 

[Quattro]

Go read jgisland's blog post. It has stats.

 

[absinthe]

Go read jgisland's blog post. It has stats.

http://www.allbuffs.com/entry.php/217-Why-the-facts-support-Andre-Roberson-s-Decision

 

[COhoops]

Where does the idea that 2nd round picks are disposable commodities come from? NBA teams draft players that they believe have the ability to help them win basketball games, regardless of the round they're selected. The odds are in Dre's favor that he'll get a guaranteed deal, even as a second rounder. I've posted the numbers from last year's class multiple times, including earlier in this thread, I believe. Yet, you keep spinning this as 2nd rounders are destined for the D League, rarely get NBA deals, and are no different than FA's. That's simply not true.

I couldn't find your post on 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] round picks, I apologize. Long thread. And I don't think all second rounders are destined for the D league. I think Andre Roberson is. Generally speaking, a guy who is not improving his game in college is going to have a hard time improving vs much better competition. That’s why I think he’s going to have a hard time making a team, even if drafted.