They call it a 4 letter word in your line of work.
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Big 10 expansion -- will Pac 10 be forced to expand?
- Thread starter Sportsfan101
- Start date
They call it a 4 letter word in your line of work.
I know the Women's water polo team was offered D-1 several times during the last 10 years or so. Unfortunately, it is completely and laughably impossible with the facilities at CU. If a new pool was built (hahahha, yeah right) CU could probably compete fairly well in both mens and womens swimming and water polo. The club teams have been really competitive over the years with utterly ****ty facilities. The swim team practices in Claire Small pool and the water polo team practices in the 20 yard dive tank (regulation is 30 meters) and teams have been fairly consistently among the top club teams in the nation.
um.... i dont know much about club sports in college but..... is it not a rather large leap from a competitive club water polo/swimming team to a D-1 level water polo/swimming team competiting in the Big XII against a team like Kansas or Texas. Let alone a Stanford/CAL/USC/UCLA in the pac 10?
granted, i dont know jack about the subject but on the surface, it seems rather unrealistic to me.
fill me in on what im missing here. thanks.
While it's certainly true that the best club team would not be comptetive with the top flight varsity squads, it would probably be somewhat competitive against the rest of the squads. There are a lot of very good swimmers in the state of Colorado, believe it or not. I swam with a guy at BHS who went on to swim at Air Force. We have a kid here in Longmont who is swimming at Stanford right now (Stanford is a top 5 swimming program).
TheEvilBeak
Member
I think the only way the B10 takes B12 teams would be in a massive pre-emptive raid. I could see them taking most of the B12 north teams to make a 16 team Conference. KU and MU for BBall, NU, MU, CU for FB, etc...
Something like that may be attractive and basically cover a wide swath of the country.
Point taken. But I know that while I was on the club water polo team at CU we were certainly not competitive with top NCAA teams (mostly west coast), we were on par with 2nd or 3rd tier ncaa teams like Davis, Air Force, and teams back east that didn't have eastern european pipelines. And that's without the ability to recruit or to practice in reasonable facilities. CU has the ability to succeed in smaller sports because people want to be in boulder, but if the facilities and opportunities are not there, it's not going to happen.
Nor Cal Buff
Well-Known Member
It would be a much better fit for recruiting and also with so many Buff alums in Pac 10 states and Pac 10 alums in CO.
Flatirons2
New Member
Just my view, I've been willing to depart the B12 for several years and head West. This is my reasoning
A home game schedule ie
USC
OU
Stanford
ASU
vs
ISU
KSU
TT
BU
Season ticket sales would increase 10-15%, Donor money would increase, TV money, exposure to recruiting base and the list goes on. A lot of upside to this move. The downside would be losing history and starting over.
A home game schedule ie
USC
OU
Stanford
ASU
vs
ISU
KSU
TT
BU
Season ticket sales would increase 10-15%, Donor money would increase, TV money, exposure to recruiting base and the list goes on. A lot of upside to this move. The downside would be losing history and starting over.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
You are aware that ASU, UCLA, Washington State and even USC was not a sell out in Folsom in the last decade..
I believe USC was the only game (with the exception of the Slick Rick comeback game) that was over 50,000 vs Pac 10 competition.
I see no evidence whatsoever that CU fans would be more inclined to go to games if Stanford, Washington State and Arizona were coming to Boulder instead of KjSU, Iowa State and Oklahoma State.
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Flatirons2
New Member
I would counter with this:
If in the scenerio as I posted
Before the first kickoff the fervor would be intense, inaugural season, new teams coming to Boulder and all of the excitement that would come with it, instant $$$$$$$
$$$CU needs
I'm of the opinion that some time in the future some changes will be made in several conferences for any number of reasons. My biggest concern is that CU will lose some of it's attraction before that happens, not based solely on the success of the FB team, but as a whole.
If in the scenerio as I posted
Before the first kickoff the fervor would be intense, inaugural season, new teams coming to Boulder and all of the excitement that would come with it, instant $$$$$$$
$$$CU needs
I'm of the opinion that some time in the future some changes will be made in several conferences for any number of reasons. My biggest concern is that CU will lose some of it's attraction before that happens, not based solely on the success of the FB team, but as a whole.
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
I don't get the excitement.. Other than USC, what football power does the Pac 10 have?
Flatirons2
New Member
Seriously....
How bout this for starters
With the announcement the PAC10(12) would provide seed money for CU to begin a Swim & Baseball team as part of it's acceptance 2-4 years hence. $$$$$$
It goes well beyond football
How bout this for starters
With the announcement the PAC10(12) would provide seed money for CU to begin a Swim & Baseball team as part of it's acceptance 2-4 years hence. $$$$$$
It goes well beyond football
MontanaBuff
Well-Known Member
The case for joining the Mountain West ...
First, such a move would have to be predicated upon the following:
1) the MWC getting an automatic BCS bid - which may be coming in the next few years anyway. This puts the Buffs in no worse position nationally than they are now; and
2) a television contract with a network. With TCU, BYU and Utah all being ranked this season, the MWC - with a BCS bid - will be up for increased national exposure.
Why it would benefit Colorado:
1) Natural rivalries would spark local fan interest. Games each season with AFA, CSU and Wyoming would help bring college football out from shadows in the consciousness of the state's fans;
2) The opportunity to expand the MWC profile. If Colorado joined, there would be reason for further expansion of the Conference (Boise State, Fresno State); and
3) this is the most important, though it's hard to admit ... the Buffs would be able to compete on a level playing field.
With 50,000/game attendance the goal each season, there is no chance - zero, nada, zippo - that Colorado can consistently stay up with Nebraska, Texas, and Oklahoma. (How it is that Nebraska, with the only 80,000 seat stadium in the Big 12 North, fails win the title every single season, is a mystery, but I digress).
The other teams in the MWC would be comparable in terms of resources and stadium size, giving the Buffs the opportunity to compete for a BCS bid every season.
I would love to see Colorado in the Pac-12, and that's been the case for many years. I have traveled to Austin, College Station,and Lincoln, but I have no interest in Waco, Ames, or Stillwater. I would be a regular in Seattle, San Francisco and LA - joining the CU alumni base which runs home after getting their degrees. But if the Pac-12 didn't work out in the mid-90's, when Colorado was a national fixture, I doubt it would work out now.
Might be better to look smaller ... to grow the program back to national prominence.
Go Buffs! Kings of the Mountain West! :gobuffs:
First, such a move would have to be predicated upon the following:
1) the MWC getting an automatic BCS bid - which may be coming in the next few years anyway. This puts the Buffs in no worse position nationally than they are now; and
2) a television contract with a network. With TCU, BYU and Utah all being ranked this season, the MWC - with a BCS bid - will be up for increased national exposure.
Why it would benefit Colorado:
1) Natural rivalries would spark local fan interest. Games each season with AFA, CSU and Wyoming would help bring college football out from shadows in the consciousness of the state's fans;
2) The opportunity to expand the MWC profile. If Colorado joined, there would be reason for further expansion of the Conference (Boise State, Fresno State); and
3) this is the most important, though it's hard to admit ... the Buffs would be able to compete on a level playing field.
With 50,000/game attendance the goal each season, there is no chance - zero, nada, zippo - that Colorado can consistently stay up with Nebraska, Texas, and Oklahoma. (How it is that Nebraska, with the only 80,000 seat stadium in the Big 12 North, fails win the title every single season, is a mystery, but I digress).
The other teams in the MWC would be comparable in terms of resources and stadium size, giving the Buffs the opportunity to compete for a BCS bid every season.
I would love to see Colorado in the Pac-12, and that's been the case for many years. I have traveled to Austin, College Station,and Lincoln, but I have no interest in Waco, Ames, or Stillwater. I would be a regular in Seattle, San Francisco and LA - joining the CU alumni base which runs home after getting their degrees. But if the Pac-12 didn't work out in the mid-90's, when Colorado was a national fixture, I doubt it would work out now.
Might be better to look smaller ... to grow the program back to national prominence.
Go Buffs! Kings of the Mountain West! :gobuffs:
Sportsfan101
Well-Known Member
Dear God, is this what it has come to? Shoot me now.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
Football
Men's basketball
Women's basketball
Men's golf
Women's golf
Women's volleyball
Men's cross country
Women's coss country
Men's track and field
Women's track and field
Men's golf
Women's golf
Women's soccer
Men's skiing
Women's skiing
Women's tennis
Yep 16. On the CU website they list golf, skiing, cross country as one sport.
dply
Doble hoja
GoBuffs08
Well-Known Member
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
This list shows men's and women's golf twice each - so 14?
part of me has been wondering if we wouldn't be better off in the mwc as well...
our budget, stadium size, and lack of commitment to big time sports fits in much better in the little leagues. if they get a bcs auto-bid, it is even easier to make the case.
personally, i would hate it. if a move is made, i'd like to see CU in the p10, but at this point, would they even want the Buffs? the mwc would be glad to have us.
maybe it is just the depression talking...
:huh:
our budget, stadium size, and lack of commitment to big time sports fits in much better in the little leagues. if they get a bcs auto-bid, it is even easier to make the case.
personally, i would hate it. if a move is made, i'd like to see CU in the p10, but at this point, would they even want the Buffs? the mwc would be glad to have us.
maybe it is just the depression talking...
:huh:
ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
The case to NOT join the MWC:
As it stands right now:
Big 12 revenue sharing: $8.6 million to CU
Pac Ten revenue sharing: varies by school similar to Big 12 format, but an average of $8.0 million
Mountain West revenue sharing: $2.0 million without earning a BCS bid; $2.6 million when another MWC team gets BCS bid; $5.0 million when MWC team gets bid
Not to mention that selling tickets for games against UNLV and San Diego State would not be easy.
As it stands right now:
Big 12 revenue sharing: $8.6 million to CU
Pac Ten revenue sharing: varies by school similar to Big 12 format, but an average of $8.0 million
Mountain West revenue sharing: $2.0 million without earning a BCS bid; $2.6 million when another MWC team gets BCS bid; $5.0 million when MWC team gets bid
Not to mention that selling tickets for games against UNLV and San Diego State would not be easy.
MWC will probably get an autobid but they are not in line for a huge TV contract. They don't have the population base within the geographic footprint of the league and they do not draw good ratings when they get national games. Their bowl ratings have been low including comparitive ratings in BCS bowls. The league lacks any teams that have true national appeal and many of the games are in a bad time zone. There is a reason that ESPN offered them a poor enough contract that they chose to go to the current package (CBSCS, VS, MTN.)
CU would lose huge amounts of money in this move. TV money goes way down, even with an auto bid the league revenue from other bowls is much lower as would be the CU share. The MWC uses a revenue sharing system for tickets sales and with the significantly lower attendance in the MWC along with lower ticket prices, CU would lose huge money again.
OKCBuff
Well-Known Member
Mtn: Good info. Thanks.
While part of me likes the MWC for the natural geographic rivalries, that's really the only reason to like it. In a way, games against UW, CSU, USAFA, UNM, Utah and BYU would be great in a regional sense in my mind.
BUT... as said above, it would be a disaster economically. Bolting to the Pac-10 would be the only other conference I could live with CU being in. That said, The Big 12 is a great place to be and even if a school got picked off, it would still be a better situation than dropping to the minors.
CU's problems are largely self-imposed. Once (if?) those are corrected the Buffs will be back in the top 20 and enjoy national relevance again. So it's important to stay in a BCS conference for that reason.
While part of me likes the MWC for the natural geographic rivalries, that's really the only reason to like it. In a way, games against UW, CSU, USAFA, UNM, Utah and BYU would be great in a regional sense in my mind.
BUT... as said above, it would be a disaster economically. Bolting to the Pac-10 would be the only other conference I could live with CU being in. That said, The Big 12 is a great place to be and even if a school got picked off, it would still be a better situation than dropping to the minors.
CU's problems are largely self-imposed. Once (if?) those are corrected the Buffs will be back in the top 20 and enjoy national relevance again. So it's important to stay in a BCS conference for that reason.
MontanaBuff
Well-Known Member
Good points, but I believe we're comparing apples to oranges. What good does $8.6 million do Colorado if Texas is bringing in $50 million? Unless Colorado can get T. Boone Pickens or Nike to switch alliances, or a rich alum decides he wants to have a stadium named after him, Colorado will continue to lag behind much of the Big 12. The Buffs might strike lightning in a bottle once every decade or so, but regular success will continue to be elusive.
If the MWC gets a BCS automatic bid, it will often be seen as the "weak sister conference", much like the Big East and ACC have for much of the decade. But the chances for a major bowl would be significantly better than CU has now. Anyone see Colorado as the 2nd or 3rd best team in the Big 12 anytime soon?
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ScottyBuff
Well-Known Member
Even if the MWC received an auto-bid the payouts would only increase to about $3.0-4.0 million per team in the conference.
The "good that $8.6 million" that we currently receive does is ensure that we can even have the athletics that we do have at CU. Dropping $5.0 million out of the budget (at least) would mean a reduction in scholarships, programs, an increase in ticket prices. We are still paying off $800k a year to university for the last loan and could not afford to justify $3 million to buyout Hawkins, so how do you not see the importance of keeping at least the $8 million that we get now?
Going to an expanded Pac Ten that has a TV contract renewal in 2012 could be an economic boon, as the Big 12 is stuck with the same status quo through 2016.
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are you an idiot?
seriously.... answer the question first before you post anymore...
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
Kinda makes sense from their standpoint.