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Burrow or Lawrence?

Burrow or Lawrence?


  • Total voters
    84
  • Poll closed .

68buffs

Well-Known Member
I haven't watched much of Lawrence in college but does he really look better than Luck or Vince Young?
For me in college, yes. Luck was a fighter who had talent to match, Young won a championship. Both really good college QBs, Lawrence is the first QB I've ever seen and said that kid should be the first pick in next years draft as a freshman. But that's just my .02
 

Bill Cody

Club Member
Club Member
I get that Burrow has had a nice season. I guess no one has any concern that he’s had one good year with one of the best offensive systems in modern football. Okay.
I get that argument, but I don't agree with it.

I think you can also make the alternative argument that Burrow had a year for the ages in his very first year in a new system....which speaks equally well of his ability to grow and adapt. He was in Urban Meyer's system at OSU, and I don't think he was as good of a fit for a system that puts a premium on QB's that are able to run. Haskins is the exception there, I guess? Burrow is pretty athletic, but I am not surprised in the least that he didn't play all much behind JT Barrett in that system. He graduated in 3 years from OSU, and transferred to LSU where he saw his first significant playing time in college in a system that frankly sucked. The system he plays in now is great, but I don't think it's fair to discount the fact that he needed to master it in one year and be able to make plays in it (which he has ad nauseam). Outside of the system being good, I see that Burrow throws a very catchable ball, he has the arm strength to make all of the throws, he is extremely accurate with a very quick release, and he processes information on the field at a lightning fast pace. Additionally, it seems that his teammates love him.

When you look at the context of his college career, I personally don't have any concerns about him having one good year. I see a QB that is a leader, works very hard to learn and adapt, is accurate, is on the upper end of athletic for a Pocket QB, has very good mechanics and makes sound decisions when live bullets are flying. Isn't this exactly what you're looking for in a high draft pick QB?
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
I get that argument, but I don't agree with it.

I think you can also make the alternative argument that Burrow had a year for the ages in his very first year in a new system....which speaks equally well of his ability to grow and adapt. He was in Urban Meyer's system at OSU, and I don't think he was as good of a fit for a system that puts a premium on QB's that are able to run. Haskins is the exception there, I guess? Burrow is pretty athletic, but I am not surprised in the least that he didn't play all much behind JT Barrett in that system. He graduated in 3 years from OSU, and transferred to LSU where he saw his first significant playing time in college in a system that frankly sucked. The system he plays in now is great, but I don't think it's fair to discount the fact that he needed to master it in one year and be able to make plays in it (which he has ad nauseam). Outside of the system being good, I see that Burrow throws a very catchable ball, he has the arm strength to make all of the throws, he is extremely accurate with a very quick release, and he processes information on the field at a lightning fast pace. Additionally, it seems that his teammates love him.

When you look at the context of his college career, I personally don't have any concerns about him having one good year. I see a QB that is a leader, works very hard to learn and adapt, is accurate, is on the upper end of athletic for a Pocket QB, has very good mechanics and makes sound decisions when live bullets are flying. Isn't this exactly what you're looking for in a high draft pick QB?
The system he’s in now has produced the most prolific passing numbers in the history of the NFL. Barely any of the LSU skill players were new. Burrow has had one great season. He was a backup at tOSU and had a mediocre season last year. Your argument is that the system made him complete less than 60% of his passes with the exact same receivers? You said that he throws an easy to catch pass. He shouldn’t have been that poor regardless of system if he’s inherently accurate.

To discount the impact of the system is foolhardy because it doesn’t do much to evaluate Burrow relative to another more talented player. The real question is: if you replaced Lawrence with Burrow the last year, would LSU even consider hiring Joe Brady for this season? Methinks LSU would’ve been a playoff team last year if Lawrence was their QB and would likely be undefeated right now.
 

Bill Cody

Club Member
Club Member
The system he’s in now has produced the most prolific passing numbers in the history of the NFL. Barely any of the LSU skill players were new. Burrow has had one great season. He was a backup at tOSU and had a mediocre season last year. Your argument is that the system made him complete less than 60% of his passes with the exact same receivers? You said that he throws an easy to catch pass. He shouldn’t have been that poor regardless of system if he’s inherently accurate.

To discount the impact of the system is foolhardy because it doesn’t do much to evaluate Burrow relative to another more talented player. The real question is: if you replaced Lawrence with Burrow the last year, would LSU even consider hiring Joe Brady for this season? Methinks LSU would’ve been a playoff team last year if Lawrence was their QB and would likely be undefeated right now.
I in no way am discounting the impact of the system. It’s filled with great offensive concepts. LSU’s offense last year was way too predictable. There is a reason Orgeron wanted to go a different direction (and Ensminger agreed). Efficiency is hard achieve in a predictable offense....especially when your playing against elite defensive athletes in the SEC. Maybe I’m excusing away the lack of performance by Burrow last year, but I think playing QB in a predictable offense in the SEC is damn near impossible.

I also think you need players to pull off great systems. We’ve seen new QB’s step into elite systems and fall flat many times. You need to give players credit too, and Burrow has performed extremely well. I think it comes down to this being tantamount to a chicken and egg argument. I am just basing my opinion of Burrow on what my eyes tell me. Of course I could be wrong, and his performance could be 100% a symptom of the system he plays in, I just don’t see that. We’ll just need to wait and see what he does in the NFL.

BTW, I am not convinced Lawrence does any better last year in the LSU offense at all.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
I in no way am discounting the impact of the system. It’s filled with great offensive concepts. LSU’s offense last year was way too predictable. There is a reason Orgeron wanted to go a different direction (and Ensminger agreed). Efficiency is hard achieve in a predictable offense....especially when your playing against elite defensive athletes in the SEC. Maybe I’m excusing away the lack of performance by Burrow last year, but I think playing QB in a predictable offense in the SEC is damn near impossible.

I also think you need players to pull off great systems. We’ve seen new QB’s step into elite systems and fall flat many times. You need to give players credit too, and Burrow has performed extremely well. I think it comes down to this being tantamount to a chicken and egg argument. I am just basing my opinion of Burrow on what my eyes tell me. Of course I could be wrong, and his performance could be 100% a symptom of the system he plays in, I just don’t see that. We’ll just need to wait and see what he does in the NFL.

BTW, I am not convinced Lawrence does any better last year in the LSU offense at all.
What about Lawrence gives you the idea that he would become inaccurate in a run based system with awesome receivers?

Your argument only makes sense if LSU would’ve had new skill players this year. None of their major contributors are new. I understand that players can improve, but you really overstate how much is on the players given what the system has done.
 

Bill Cody

Club Member
Club Member
What about Lawrence gives you the idea that he would become inaccurate in a run based system with awesome receivers?

Your argument only makes sense if LSU would’ve had new skill players this year. None of their major contributors are new. I understand that players can improve, but you really overstate how much is on the players given what the system has done.
I think Lawrence gets rid of the ball too slowly as he waits for guys to get open, and was taking too many hits against OSU because of it. Lawrence plays with better athletes IMO at Clemson, in a worse conference. I am not saying that the skill players at LSU got better, I am saying that the new system allows for more flexibility and options (which the QB needs to find and deliver to). All I am saying is that it’s both (the system and the players), and I think your discounting Burrow too much because of the system. He has flat out balled this year, and I think he’s shown the right attributes as a QB that I would take him over Lawrence. They are both very good QB’s, I just personally believe Burrows skill set translates better to the NFL. Of course I could be wrong, and so could you. That would make us on par with all the GM’s that actually get paid to evaluate such things.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
I think Lawrence gets rid of the ball too slowly as he waits for guys to get open, and was taking too many hits against OSU because of it. Lawrence plays with better athletes IMO at Clemson, in a worse conference. I am not saying that the skill players at LSU got better, I am saying that the new system allows for more flexibility and options (which the QB needs to find and deliver to). All I am saying is that it’s both (the system and the players), and I think your discounting Burrow too much because of the system. He has flat out balled this year, and I think he’s shown the right attributes as a QB that I would take him over Lawrence. They are both very good QB’s, I just personally believe Burrows skill set translates better to the NFL. Of course I could be wrong, and so could you. That would make us on par with all the GM’s that actually get paid to evaluate such things.
Wow. You’d be one of the first people who seriously thought that Clemson’s skill players are MUCH better than LSU’s skill players.
 

Bill Cody

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Club Member
Wow. You’d be one of the first people who seriously thought that Clemson’s skill players are MUCH better than LSU’s skill players.
I know I would, if actually said MUCH better. I also didn’t limit it to just skill players, but whatever. I also have a hard time reconciling you discounting Burrow flourishing in an NFL system, when over half the QB’s that come out of college wash out due to their inability to learn said systems.
 

manhattanbuf

Club Member
Club Member
I know I would, if actually said MUCH better. I also didn’t limit it to just skill players, but whatever. I also have a hard time reconciling you discounting Burrow flourishing in an NFL system, when over half the QB’s that come out of college wash out due to their inability to learn said systems.
The argument is who’s better between Burrow and Lawrence. Lawrence has not had an off year, unlike Burrow. I think Burrow is a system guy. He has potential but I don’t see him lighting the world up when he’s not in the NOS system in Cinci.
 

Bill Cody

Club Member
Club Member
The argument is who’s better between Burrow and Lawrence. Lawrence has not had an off year, unlike Burrow. I think Burrow is a system guy. He has potential but I don’t see him lighting the world up when he’s not in the NOS system in Cinci.
I think we’ve stayed on task with the argument. Your statement above is factual, Lawrence has also played on the most loaded team in America IMO, in a system that fits him well. You can’t say the same thing about Burrow until this year. I think any QB drafted over the last Decade would get murdered in Cincy until something changes there....so I’m not sure that is a detractor against Burrow. Look, I see your POV, this argument is going nowhere because I just see it differently. I think it’ll be fun to see how this all pans out. These next two draft classes contain the highest level of QB talent that I think we’ve seen in decades. I’m excited to see how it all pans out.
 

buffaholic

Club Member
Club Member
I do wonder how much of Burrow's success is Joe Brady. I have a strong suspicion that Joe Brady just delivered a massive change of thinking to college football offense. Burrow just went from very ordinary last year to off-the-charts good this year. Could be that the QB situation at LSU was just so bad last year (and several years) but I think it's more than that. Will have to see in a few years how much of LSU's success is Joe Brady fueled.
 

Not Sure

Sets low bar, barely exceeds it.
Club Member
I said this in the game thread, but Burrow definitely outplayed Lawrence last night. Lawrence should have been the guy who had been there before and wouldn’t be rattled. Burrow seemed more composed, though.
 

Buffarino

Math - how does it work?
Club Member
Before yesterday, I would have said Lawrence 10 times out of 10, but damn did Burrow look good last night. And Lawrence was all over the place with his passes.
 

Uncle Luko

Peckerwood
Club Member
Before yesterday, I would have said Lawrence 10 times out of 10, but damn did Burrow look good last night. And Lawrence was all over the place with his passes.
Mostly what I heard going into this game was, can LSU 's dbs hang with Clemson's receivers? They did so, Clemson's guys had a hard time getting separation. Clemson's dbs couldn't hang with LSU's receivers is what it turned out to be.
 

hawg1

Club Member
Club Member
I said this in the game thread, but Burrow definitely outplayed Lawrence last night. Lawrence should have been the guy who had been there before and wouldn’t be rattled. Burrow seemed more composed, though.
Let’s give props to LSU coverage.
 

hawg1

Club Member
Club Member
Mostly what I heard going into this game was, can LSU 's dbs hang with Clemson's receivers? They did so, Clemson's guys had a hard time getting separation. Clemson's dbs couldn't hang with LSU's receivers is what it turned out to be.
Stingley glue.
 
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