Didn't we run the no-huddle for like one half vs CSU then completely bail on it? I doubt that qualifies as having run a similar offense recently.
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Butch Jones
- Thread starter ReedMarks
- Start date
Didn't we run the no-huddle for like one half vs CSU then completely bail on it? I doubt that qualifies as having run a similar offense recently.
SINKRATZ
PhD in Analogy
Like what? I was against Jones before Jimmy's post and that was some pretty compelling data.
i'll be very disappointed if this is the best we can do.
Jimmy_Wood
Active Member
FWIW - Patr from Buffstampede said he was a great recruiter, which I had a gut feeling was not true. So I did some research and he has 1 four star recruit in his last 3 classes (according to rivals). I added that to my original post as well.
BuffAlum2007
Well-Known Member
There's still a strong rumor out there that Purdue has offered him the job...I think he would choose Purdue over CU...
NashBuff
CSU Knob-Slobberer
So you are saying that Ohio kids should have picked Cinncinnati over Big Ten schools? Thanks for the laugh!
SECOBuffsFan
Active Member
I thought we were running the 3 and out offense all year
I think Jones would be okay, but I personally would like to see McIntyre from SJSU
NashBuff
CSU Knob-Slobberer
I would agree on that. Jones would be a good fit for that school too.
Jimmy_Wood
Active Member
Nash Buff - Last time I checked when you inherit a top 5 program, you usually are able to sign some 4 star recruits, no matter what part of country you are in. Especially at a BCS school.
Have you been to Purdue?!? Seriously, I'm not being a homer and thinking that everyone wants to go to CU, but Purdue is a ****hole. I spent the longest year of my life there, and I was only there for 3 days. God, I don't think there's anywhere I'd pick Purdue over in the United States.
Cincinnati was ranked at the end of last year. #21, so that makes me understand why you didn't say Top 25. You're presenting just one side of the data, Jimmy, in order to make your case. That's fine, but there is another side to it. The guy has been a winner wherever he's been, he has worked for some great offensive minds and developed an interesting hybrid offense (pro style passing concepts with spread running), his defenses perform much better than what you see with other spread teams, and he has recruited statistically better for Cincinnati than Kelly did.
Regarding the opening 4-8 season, many would argue that Kelly knew it was time to get out of Dodge because of the huge senior class he was losing. Turning over the roster and losing both Kelly and Diaco from the staff is a lot for a team to overcome. I'm impressed that they rebounded to 10-3 the next year and may repeat that record this year.
I haven't seen anything questioning the guy except from fans who are playing amateur AD.
Regardless of who is hired, I'll fully support our next HC until I'm given reason not to. Expect the early sunshine pumping from me. That's how I've been with every CU HC and the next one will get the same.
NashBuff
CSU Knob-Slobberer
I don't think Ohio kids and highly sought kids are dumb enough to realize that the Big East isn't going to able to retain its BCS label. The MWC has done more to deserve a BCS bid than the Big East.
We also have to rebuild CO recruiting after our last 2 coaches.
I would hope that Bohn doesn't hire anyone who didn't have a coaching staff & recruiting plan that made sense for CU.
BuffAlum2007
Well-Known Member
I haven't, but it would make sense that he would want to stay in the midwest since he's a born-and-bred midwesterner...given that he played and coached at Ferris State in exciting Big Rapids, MI, and coached at CMU in the exciting hamlet of Mount Pleasant, MI, I can't imagine that from a quality of life standpoint, West Lafayette is that much worse or different from those places...
Responding to Jwood's points:
Jones was at Cmichigan before Kelly.
At Cinci, Kelly went out with a giant senior class that dominated the 2 deep (not a lot of experienced talent behind them)- Jones had to rebuild almost completely (few pieces excepted). Jones went 4-8, and then got 10 wins, and seems to be on his way to 9 or 10 again.
And at Central Michigan, year 3 was his best year. He's not winning with teams dominated by Kelly's guys - He's winning with both coach's guys. And his teams tend to get better or at the worst maintain performance, THREE YEARS out from when the last guy left. In general, cracks appear in year three as the upperclassmen from the last coach leave. See: Larry Coker, rick neuheisel, etc.
Just saying, you skipped all the GOOD facts in making your argument. One more point: The Cincy AD has a great eye for coaching talent. He's picked Dantonio, Kelly, and now Jones. I think we can trust him.
Jones was at Cmichigan before Kelly.
At Cinci, Kelly went out with a giant senior class that dominated the 2 deep (not a lot of experienced talent behind them)- Jones had to rebuild almost completely (few pieces excepted). Jones went 4-8, and then got 10 wins, and seems to be on his way to 9 or 10 again.
And at Central Michigan, year 3 was his best year. He's not winning with teams dominated by Kelly's guys - He's winning with both coach's guys. And his teams tend to get better or at the worst maintain performance, THREE YEARS out from when the last guy left. In general, cracks appear in year three as the upperclassmen from the last coach leave. See: Larry Coker, rick neuheisel, etc.
Just saying, you skipped all the GOOD facts in making your argument. One more point: The Cincy AD has a great eye for coaching talent. He's picked Dantonio, Kelly, and now Jones. I think we can trust him.
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lawdogg
Club Member
Even with those points, which are valid, I'm just having a hard time getting fired up about this guy. Maybe he'll grow on me.
Tea Rex
Club Member
Munchie makes plays but he cannot throw at all, LeFevour wasn't the greatest passer either.
Jimmy_Wood
Active Member
Buffnik - Brian Kelly did at those programs the hardest part - He changed the culture to winning. That is the hardest part of any job. You can't say Butch Jones did that. Claiming Butch Jones was reason for success at CMU is absurd at best. Please use numbers in your arguments guys. Look at facts. I hate all this I think stuff. He was at CMU from 1998-2004 in some capacity.
(TE) 1998 - 6-5
(RB) 1999 - 4-7
(RB) 2000 - 2-9
(RB) 2001 - 3-8
(OC) 2002 - 4-8
(OC) 2003 - 3-9
(OC) 2004 - 4-7
He leaves CMU and they go 6-5 then 9-4.
(TE) 1998 - 6-5
(RB) 1999 - 4-7
(RB) 2000 - 2-9
(RB) 2001 - 3-8
(OC) 2002 - 4-8
(OC) 2003 - 3-9
(OC) 2004 - 4-7
He leaves CMU and they go 6-5 then 9-4.
MaxBuff
New Member
I have to disregard the "only 1 four star" argument as a reason not to hire him.
Looking back at Kelly's tenure, it is almost identical in terms of recruits at Cinncinnati. Over three years, three or four four stars, many, many more two starts than we ever had, and the remainder were three stars.
I think what is clear is that Kelly, and I believe Jones, have the ability to coach up 2 and 3 start kids, which is primarily what we are recruiting right now.
My major concern with Jones is recruiting base. He just doesnt recruit west of Iowa, and his name is not known enough to carry any weight in Colorado, Texas, Cali, Pacific Northwest, or Hawaii. Unless he hired some coaches with strong ties in these areas, I think we will end up back to where we were with Hawkins in Texas (basically shut out), with Hawkins and Embree in Colorado (lost the top kids), and even worse than we have ever been in Cali.
So, if you hire Jones, please make sure he brings some guys in who can recruit and are well known in Tx, Cali, Co.
Looking back at Kelly's tenure, it is almost identical in terms of recruits at Cinncinnati. Over three years, three or four four stars, many, many more two starts than we ever had, and the remainder were three stars.
I think what is clear is that Kelly, and I believe Jones, have the ability to coach up 2 and 3 start kids, which is primarily what we are recruiting right now.
My major concern with Jones is recruiting base. He just doesnt recruit west of Iowa, and his name is not known enough to carry any weight in Colorado, Texas, Cali, Pacific Northwest, or Hawaii. Unless he hired some coaches with strong ties in these areas, I think we will end up back to where we were with Hawkins in Texas (basically shut out), with Hawkins and Embree in Colorado (lost the top kids), and even worse than we have ever been in Cali.
So, if you hire Jones, please make sure he brings some guys in who can recruit and are well known in Tx, Cali, Co.
Jimmy_Wood
Active Member
Nash Buff - Yep he left an OC job to take a WR job. Can't speculate as to why he left, but OC to WR is step down.
He went to WVU - RichRod. Learned from the spread and shred master.
Why don't you list your candidate then if you hate Jones so much
Hmmmm. Moving from OC at CMU to WR at WVU, a BCS school was a step back? Looks to me like career progression and an investment in learning from a one of the leading minds on the Spread. Yea, bad move. Really?
NashBuff
CSU Knob-Slobberer
Has anyone forgotten about a small RB that we got out of Ohio...didn't his nickname happen to be Speedy? We would be able to get enough coaches to recruit CA & TX and if the wins come, Jones will be able to recruit in those two states.
Jones clearly showed that he can coach with 2* and 3* type talent.
Jones clearly showed that he can coach with 2* and 3* type talent.
It is not a good move or a bad move. Hard to spin it as a a justification for why he should be the HC at CU though.
Waiting for the wins to recruit CA, CO, and TX effectively is a bad strategy.
TDbuff
Club Member
My feelings as well. There's no set search criteria that spells success. Just need to find the best coach and best fit for CU.