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CarolinaBuff

Club Member
Club Member
Any national playoff with any sort of legitimacy would have to include many of the big schools outside the SEC like tOSU, PSU, Michigan, Clemson, USC, FSU, Miami, Oregon, etc.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
Any national playoff with any sort of legitimacy would have to include many of the big schools outside the SEC like tOSU, PSU, Michigan, Clemson, USC, FSU, Miami, Oregon, etc.
Do you think they care about legitimacy? They care about maximizing revenues and being able to claim championships.

As I posted earlier I don't think it will be much time until the big name programs are part of their superconference or organization anyways.

A lot of people in that part of the country with it's passion for college football already consider the SEC champion as the best team in college football (and would argue that the second and even third best teams are better than anyone else as well. Their results in the current playoff give them an argument along these lines with the number of national championship games won by SEC schools (Bama, LSU, Georgia)
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
Wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with 2 competing leagues of around 32 teams each.
It may start out that way but don't see it continuing that way.

Whichever league has the SEC/ACC or at least the bulk of those schools will have a huge advantage both in the quality of talent and teams and in TV market share.

If the B1G were to go to the opposing league (along with ND) it may be more competitive but don't see any way the top teams in the B1g don't end up following the money and joining the SEC schools thus sealing the clear top tier and second tier.

More likely is to have the top tier running what is basically a professional league and a second league that clearly positions themselves as not being the one sold out to "big time" football ahead of retaining some legitimate connection to student athlete vs. paid professional players.
 

CarolinaBuff

Club Member
Club Member
Do you think they care about legitimacy? They care about maximizing revenues and being able to claim championships.

As I posted earlier I don't think it will be much time until the big name programs are part of their superconference or organization anyways.

A lot of people in that part of the country with it's passion for college football already consider the SEC champion as the best team in college football (and would argue that the second and even third best teams are better than anyone else as well. Their results in the current playoff give them an argument along these lines with the number of national championship games won by SEC schools (Bama, LSU, Georgia)

ESPN and Fox are going to have a huge say in all this if they're not ultimately controlling it altogether. And the networks would want teams from all parts of the country not just the Southeast.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
ESPN and Fox are going to have a huge say in all this if they're not ultimately controlling it altogether. And the networks would want teams from all parts of the country not just the Southeast.
They don't need a lot of teams from the rest of the country.

As I posted earlier they have already started to consolidate the teams they need by raiding the B12.

Add U$C and Oregon from the West coast, maybe add another couple of the highest bidders from the west, maybe UCLA, Washington, or an Arizona school.

Then they pick the logical four out of the B1G (tOSU, Mich, Penn State, and either MSU or Wiscy,) Add in Clemson, Miami, and Florida State And they are close to dominating the national TV market for college football. Get these schools in and with the money they generate Notre Dame completes the package.

Wouldn't even shock me if they found a way to kick out a couple of current SEC members meaning the money gets split into fewer pieces.

The rest of the country including us can be upset about being left out but they simply don't need us. Our smaller, mostly regional fan bases don't justify giving us a full cut of the money.
 

Not Sure

Sets low bar, barely exceeds it.
Club Member
thinking that's going to hurt ticket sales and media revenue
Are You Sure Season 7 GIF by The Office
 

Pokitren

New Member
They don't need a lot of teams from the rest of the country.

As I posted earlier they have already started to consolidate the teams they need by raiding the B12.

Add U$C and Oregon from the West coast, maybe add another couple of the highest bidders from the west, maybe UCLA, Washington, or an Arizona school.

Then they pick the logical four out of the B1G (tOSU, Mich, Penn State, and either MSU or Wiscy,) Add in Clemson, Miami, and Florida State And they are close to dominating the national TV market for college football. Get these schools in and with the money they generate Notre Dame completes the package.

Wouldn't even shock me if they found a way to kick out a couple of current SEC members meaning the money gets split into fewer pieces.

The rest of the country including us can be upset about being left out but they simply don't need us. Our smaller, mostly regional fan bases don't justify giving us a full cut of the money.

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I have a question. Are small regional fan bases supposed to get some share of the money or not? In my opinion, fans are those who are not in it for the money. And if it's for the money, it's a business. But that's just my opinion.
 
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hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain
Club Member
I have a question. Are small regional fan bases supposed to get some share of the money or not? In my opinion, fans are those who are not in it for the money. And if it's for the money, it's a business. But that's just my opinion.
What do you mean by fan bases getting money? From which source?
 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
Wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with 2 competing leagues of around 32 teams each.
Thats too many mouthes at the table. I think its more like ~32 teams total across two conferences. Or there is one 20 team mega conference. Vanderbilt, Rutgers Illinois and Northwestern like programs being unworthy of the payday get left behind for the lack of draw.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Thats too many mouthes at the table. I think its more like ~32 teams total across two or one 20 team mega conference. Vanderbilt, Rutgers and Northwestern like programs being unworthy of the payday get left behind for the lack of draw.
If I'm looking at value, a lot of the SEC is not worth a damn except for the fact they play Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Tennessee and Texas A&M. Two teams in MS, a state the NFL wouldn't even consider? If this is real, then having members based on the coattails they've ridden from decades of affiliation shouldn't mean a damn thing.

And on that note, the state university of NJ is worth a hell of a lot more than half the SEC, especially if we're talking long-term value within a new paradigm.
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain
Club Member
...

And on that note, the state university of NJ is worth a hell of a lot more than half the SEC, especially if we're talking long-term value within a new paradigm.
value as a football program? I'm not sure I agree. I've been somewhat following Rutgers for a while, back to when they and VT were together in the Big East and now that they're in the B1G with Wisconsin. they've never drawn good crowds, and it really seems the Northeast region doesn't GAF about college football.

maybe you're thinking longer term than I am, but I'm not seeing what new paradigm creates fan interest there.
 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
If I'm looking at value, a lot of the SEC is not worth a damn except for the fact they play Alabama, Auburn, Florida, Georgia, LSU, Tennessee and Texas A&M. Two teams in MS, a state the NFL wouldn't even consider? If this is real, then having members based on the coattails they've ridden from decades of affiliation shouldn't mean a damn thing.

And on that note, the state university of NJ is worth a hell of a lot more than half the SEC, especially if we're talking long-term value within a new paradigm.
TV is the king maker here because they are the paymaster. At these dollar amounts It will only be about ratings.

Ratings.

Ranking the most-watched college football programs in 2021​

The numbers next to each school indicate the average number of viewers per week for a 12-week season.

  1. Ohio State — 5.22M
  2. Michigan — 4.74M
  3. Alabama — 4.64M
  4. Penn State — 3.87M
  5. Georgia — 3.61M
  6. Oklahoma — 3.46M
  7. Auburn — 3.22M
  8. Michigan State — 2.89M
  9. Notre Dame — 2.84M
  10. Oregon — 2.57M
  11. Wisconsin — 2.41M
  12. Nebraska — 2.29M
  13. Texas — 2.26M
  14. Florida — 2.21M
  15. Arkansas — 2.03M
  16. LSU — 1.90M
  17. Texas A&M — 1.86M
  18. Mississippi — 1.81M
  19. Clemson — 1.74M
  20. Iowa — 1.64M
  21. Purdue — 1.63M
  22. Oklahoma State — 1.58M
  23. Tennessee — 1.51M
  24. Minnesota — 1.28M
  25. Florida State — 1.27M
[. . .]
43. Mississippi State — 858K
[. . .]
52. South Carolina — 575K
[. . .]
58. Rutgers — 488K
[. . .]
64. Colorado — 366K
[. . .]
105. Vanderbilt — 37K

 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member

The 2021 “4 million club”​

Here are all of the games that broke 4 million viewers this season:

  1. Ohio State at Michigan — 15.89M
  2. Alabama at Auburn — 10.37M
  3. Michigan at Michigan State — 9.29M
  4. Georgia at Clemson — 8.87M
  5. Alabama at Texas A&M — 8.33M
  6. Alabama at Florida — 7.86M
  7. Notre Dame at Florida State — 7.75M
  8. Oregon at Ohio State — 7.73M
  9. Auburn at Penn State — 7.61M
  10. Army vs. Navy — 7.57M
  11. Penn State at Ohio State — 7.05M
  12. Penn State at Iowa — 6.90M
  13. Oklahoma at Oklahoma State — 6.49M
  14. Kentucky at Georgia — 6.37M
  15. Ohio State at Minnesota — 6.30M
  16. Georgia at Florida — 6.12M
  17. Michigan at Penn State — 5.942M
  18. Oklahoma at Texas — 5.940M
  19. Georgia at Tennessee — 5.78M
  20. Alabama at Miami — 5.67M
  21. Arkansas at Alabama — 5.46M
  22. Penn State at Wisconsin — 5.41M
  23. Notre Dame at Wisconsin — 5.37M
  24. Ohio State at Nebraska — 5.33M
  25. Michigan State at Ohio State — 5.29M
  26. Wisconsin at Minnesota — 5.05M
  27. LSU at Alabama — 5.00M
  28. Oregon at Utah — 4.82M
  29. Mississippi at Alabama — 4.79M
  30. Washington at Michigan — 4.75M
  31. Purdue at Ohio State — 4.74M
  32. Tennessee at Alabama — 4.68M
  33. Michigan at Nebraska — 4.63M
  34. Georgia at Auburn — 4.58M
  35. Texas A&M at Colorado — 4.50M
  36. West Virginia at Oklahoma —4.50M
  37. Michigan State at Purdue — 4.40M
  38. Michigan at Wisconsin — 4.31M
  39. Nebraska at Oklahoma — 4.21M
  40. Texas A&M at Arkansas — 4.07M
  41. Indiana at Penn State — 4.00M
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member

The 2021 “4 million club”​

Here are all of the games that broke 4 million viewers this season:

  1. Ohio State at Michigan — 15.89M
  2. Alabama at Auburn — 10.37M
  3. Michigan at Michigan State — 9.29M
  4. Georgia at Clemson — 8.87M
  5. Alabama at Texas A&M — 8.33M
  6. Alabama at Florida — 7.86M
  7. Notre Dame at Florida State — 7.75M
  8. Oregon at Ohio State — 7.73M
  9. Auburn at Penn State — 7.61M
  10. Army vs. Navy — 7.57M
  11. Penn State at Ohio State — 7.05M
  12. Penn State at Iowa — 6.90M
  13. Oklahoma at Oklahoma State — 6.49M
  14. Kentucky at Georgia — 6.37M
  15. Ohio State at Minnesota — 6.30M
  16. Georgia at Florida — 6.12M
  17. Michigan at Penn State — 5.942M
  18. Oklahoma at Texas — 5.940M
  19. Georgia at Tennessee — 5.78M
  20. Alabama at Miami — 5.67M
  21. Arkansas at Alabama — 5.46M
  22. Penn State at Wisconsin — 5.41M
  23. Notre Dame at Wisconsin — 5.37M
  24. Ohio State at Nebraska — 5.33M
  25. Michigan State at Ohio State — 5.29M
  26. Wisconsin at Minnesota — 5.05M
  27. LSU at Alabama — 5.00M
  28. Oregon at Utah — 4.82M
  29. Mississippi at Alabama — 4.79M
  30. Washington at Michigan — 4.75M
  31. Purdue at Ohio State — 4.74M
  32. Tennessee at Alabama — 4.68M
  33. Michigan at Nebraska — 4.63M
  34. Georgia at Auburn — 4.58M
  35. Texas A&M at Colorado — 4.50M
  36. West Virginia at Oklahoma —4.50M
  37. Michigan State at Purdue — 4.40M
  38. Michigan at Wisconsin — 4.31M
  39. Nebraska at Oklahoma — 4.21M
  40. Texas A&M at Arkansas — 4.07M
  41. Indiana at Penn State — 4.00M
So what you're telling me with that data is I'm absolutely right about it being nothing more than coattails.

Alabama game (where Bama drew its norm - maybe below its norm in non-FCS matchups) hugely inflated Ole Miss's overall number.
 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
So what you're telling me with that data is I'm absolutely right about it being nothing more than coattails.

Alabama game (where Bama drew its norm - maybe below its norm in non-FCS matchups) hugely inflated Ole Miss's overall number.
Right. Except that Rutgers, despite being in a larger population center, still scores lower then Miss State by a lot.

That 2nd list and your 2nd point show the value of marquee matchups for the TV gods and they’ll pay to have more of those. Rutgers played Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State and Wisconsin in 2021 and still failed to cross the 4 million mark in any of these games.
 
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MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
I have a question. Are small regional fan bases supposed to get some share of the money or not? In my opinion, fans are those who are not in it for the money. And if it's for the money, it's a business. But that's just my opinion.
If you are talking about the schools with small regional fanbases no they don't get a share of the money, they big money guys don't want to share the money and they don't see a reason for doing so.

That is why the current conference system gets blown up. USC and Oregon don't want to see an equal share of conference revenue, or even a reduced share of conference media revenue going to Cal, Oregon State, Colorado, or Washington State which are schools that don't drive national or regional viewership numbers.

And it is a business, at that level it is all about the money. Traditional conference ties mean very little when compared to an extra $30-$50 million a year for a school.
 

CUAviator

Well-Known Member
And the PAC12 is no where to be seen. Ever Oregon who looks good is heavily influenced by that Ohio State game.
Isn’t part of the problem the Pac-12N and regional P12 networks? If you’re not in the footprint, they make it very difficult to watch those channels. Yeah I get it Fubo, sling - but those are really for the die hard fan. Casual alum that would gladly watch the game on espn or fox aren’t going to subscribe to those. (Also, the user experience sucks with the P12N through those services)
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
Isn’t part of the problem the Pac-12N and regional P12 networks? If you’re not in the footprint, they make it very difficult to watch those channels. Yeah I get it Fubo, sling - but those are really for the die hard fan. Casual alum that would gladly watch the game on espn or fox aren’t going to subscribe to those. (Also, the user experience sucks with the P12N through those services)
Distribution and game times deflate P12 numbers.
 

josef

Club Member
Club Member
Yep, also that. I’m just saying that trying to compare viewership numbers and then saying the P12 teams need to give up Football is apples and oranges. (Maybe apples and other not good apples)
I agree that distribution plays a huge roll in this. Wasn’t trying to argue that the pac12 drop football. That being said if there was huge demand for the product the distribution would figure itself out. Sort of a chicken and the egg deal.
 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
Distribution and game times deflate P12 numbers.
Given the ratings numbers ESPN or Fox isnt going to put P12 games on over their other properties. Were just regional interest filler to them. I would hope we would avoid those two even if it mean less money. The best hope, I think, is If we end up on CBS or NBC and they put games on in the same time slots across from SEC and B1G to help rebuild the brand
 
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CarolinaBuff

Club Member
Club Member
Weird how having the best distribution and prime time slots prop up the numbers. Almost like the networks want to make sure the programs and conferences they are most heavily invested in get the most eyeballs.

True but it also makes sense that the major networks are going to want the 2 highest ranked teams playing that week and also teams that are national brands. The big noon game on Fox drew great ratings last year but it was no coincidence that Ohio State or Michigan was playing in most of those. As is often said on this board it comes down to USC getting good again.
 
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