CU fans need a reality check on a coaching change

[Chilly]

Another reason Arizona is a poor comparison, they have done nothing but get better year after year. Hawk has done nothing but go backwards since year 2. I don't know what Stoops' road record is, but something tells me he won more than two games total in his first 4 years.

2006 Arizona 6–6 4–5 T–5th
2007 Arizona 5–7 4–5 6th

Looks like they got worse 2006-2007

 

[Duff Man]

on some level, deep deep down, can't you just hope that there's a chance Hawkins could find success here?

I do.

Sure. I will be somewhat encouraged if he finishes 5-7 this season.

But I have yet to hear anyone talking about "one more year" give any sort of minimum expectations for next season. I see the goalposts being moved constantly and I am starting to wonder if we are going to be having the same argument in 2011 as a result of that.

 

[Chilly]

I wish I could believe Hawk could turn it around. I don't. If CU won every game on the rest of the schedule, DH would STILL have a win percentage of less than .400, (.387 to be exact). That is pathetic. No BCS team except for CU and possibly pre-GB Northwestern would even entertain keeping the coach in htat situation.

So you disagree that Arizona kept it's coach after going less than .400 in 4 years?

 

[Chilly]

Sure. I will be somewhat encouraged if he finishes 5-7 this season.

But I have yet to hear anyone talking about "one more year" give any sort of minimum expectations for next season. I see the goalposts being moved constantly and I am starting to wonder if we are going to be having the same argument in 2011 as a result of that.

BS. I have said multiple time that if we give him year 5 he has to go bowling.

 

[buffsyko]

on some level, deep deep down, can't you just hope that there's a chance Hawkins could find success here?

I do.

I've been hoping for 4 years. How long does he get 20 years of hope?

What's the goals for next season? 5-7?

 

[buffsyko]

BS. I have said multiple time that if we give him year 5 he has to go bowling.

I agree but a winning record to go along with that, not 6-7.

 

[Chilly]

Come on that's not what I meant and you know it. I'm trying to get at that you can't look at other schools who aren't performing up to expectations and say that is what we can expect to happen in our situation. There is no reason to believe that Hawk is randomly going to turn the ship around next year. Keeping him is not a crap shoot, it's just plain crap.

What reasons were there to think, record wise, that Pinkell, Mangino, or Stoops were going to turn it around?

 

[Duff Man]

BS. I have said multiple time that if we give him year 5 he has to go bowling.

That's it? 6-6?

When do I get to expect a winning record? 2011?

 

[prime teets]

I've been hoping for 4 years. How long does he get 20 years of hope?

What's the goals for next season? 5-7?

look at our schedule next year. i would be happy with 5-7 with this regime coaching.

 

[AlferdJasper]

I've been hoping for 4 years. How long does he get 20 years of hope?

What's the goals for next season? 5-7?

I don't have any answers, but I believe he will be here at least one more year. Unless Bohn is extremely good at keeping a poker face, Hawkins gets another shot at showing us he can "do this thing."

 

[Chilly]

I agree but a winning record to go along with that, not 6-7.

I won't disagree. Only comment I will add, is that evaluations can't be done in a vacuum. So going to a bowl game is the requirement. Expectation is to win said bowl game unless some unforseen issues, like losing your top on-field producers the second play of the game, get in the way.

 

[buffsyko]

That's it? 6-6?

When do I get to expect a winning record? 2011?

You think cu should win a NC every year, your expectations are too high :lol: :smile2:

Hawk has dumbed down expectations for this program. Now people say they want hawk to stay if he can go 6-6 every year.

The previous coach won more than that, where's the "homerun"?

 

[leftybuff]

So you disagree that Arizona kept it's coach after going less than .400 in 4 years?

You make a great point, AZ did keep it's coach under those conditions, so as long as we can find at least one other BCS program with as suckity of results as CU has, we should stay the course. I stand corrected. By all means keep Hawk, maybe we can realize the same level of success, a 5-7 barn burner followed that epic four year run for Mike Stoops, I am already pumped for next year.

 

[buffsyko]

I don't have any answers, but I believe he will be here at least one more year. Unless Bohn is extremely good at keeping a poker face, Hawkins gets another shot at showing us he can "do this thing."

If he comes out and loses to csu, i'm done with bohn if he's not gone by monday.

 

[Chilly]

That's it? 6-6?

When do I get to expect a winning record? 2011?

when ever you please. I don't set your expectations.

 

[White_Rabbit]

What reasons were there to think, record wise, that Pinkell, Mangino, or Stoops were going to turn it around?

I don't know, the AD is probably glad they won and it saved his/her job. I'm sure there are a lot more stories of coaches that got one more year, failed and the AD is stuck trying to explain why he gave that person another year.

And really? Your exceedingly high expectations next year are to go bowling? That's it? With the number of bowls anymore, what do we have to finish to go bowling? 8th in the Big 12? You certainly have some pretty low expectations for what you want to see in CU football.

 

[buffsyko]

when ever you please. I don't set your expectations.

That's the problem, it keeps getting pushed back a year. First it was 08, then 09 and now it's 2010?

I see a pattern here and it's not good.

 

[Duff Man]

I won't disagree. Only comment I will add, is that evaluations can't be done in a vacuum. So going to a bowl game is the requirement. Expectation is to win said bowl game unless some unforseen issues, like losing your top on-field producers the second play of the game, get in the way.

Barring catastrophic injuries to multiple players, a bowl game win in year five should be a freaking requirement. Depth should be showcased by year five if a coach really has built a solid foundation. At some point, we have to deal in absolutes for this program. If we keep allowing subjectivity to override objectivity when evaluating a coach's record, we are going to be debating the difference between 6-6 and 7-5 in 2012.

 

[buffsyko]

There's what 34/35 bowl games now? Just going bowling isn't what it used to be.

Hey hawk came in here talking big 12 championships and NC, there might be more hope if he was somewhere in the vicinity or signs that is a possibility.

Right now, the program "on the field" is worse than when he got here.

 

[AlferdJasper]

That's the problem, it keeps getting pushed back a year. First it was 08, then 09 and now it's 2010?

I see a pattern here and it's not good.

I'd rather see -- at this point -- Hawkins get another year, than witness the chaos of a new coach and staff arriving at this point. I am thinking that the Hawk must have figured out a few things, knows these guys, and is turning it around.

I know, even reading that over, I sound crazy to myself.

dang.

 

[Chilly]

You make a great point, AZ did keep it's coach under those conditions, so as long as we can find at least one other BCS program with as suckity of results as CU has, we should stay the course. I stand corrected. By all means keep Hawk, maybe we can realize the same level of success, a 5-7 barn burner followed that epic four year run for Mike Stoops, I am already pumped for next year.

The entire point that the Fire Hawkins nw mob fails to even recognize, is that there is more than 1 way to skin a cat.

No one, I know of is defending Hawkins performance. However, throwing in the towel is not always the best thing to do. There are times when programs have reaped the benefits of staying that 1 extra year.

To act as if the ONLY way out of this mess to start all over again, may or may NOT be accurate. Unless someone here can see into the future, none of us know what will happen next year with a NEW coach or the existing coach.

Why some can't have a healthy debate on the pro's and con's without getting personal is beyond me.

 

[dcbuffman]

I think most people give DH a pass for the 2-10 record in year 1. In year 2, he gets to a bowl game and almost comes back and beats a team that is now in the hunt for the national championship. In year 3, he's a 57-yard field goal away from going bowling. This year has been a crappy year, no doubt, though winning out (unlikely) would make it an ok year.

So, if you're willing to throw away the first year, he's had two marginally acceptable years and one bad year (assuming no more than 5 wins this year). That isn't very good, but it isn't the end of the world either. There's a lot of young and fairly experienced talent on the team, which bodes well for the future (though next year's schedule is a bear).

In these difficult financial times, I'm not sure the track record compels (as opposed to justifies) the decision to fire Hawk.

 

[Junction]

How so? From the looks of it Stoops took over when Arizona was pretty down. His first year he went 3-8 and that was an improvement, which tells me he took over a pretty awful team. Here's one that really jumps out at me that Hawk couldn't do:

They went on to soundly defeat the Toledo Rockets

He was also a big name coordinator. I guess they couldn't get a big name head coach and had to settle for a crap shoot....

I guess we're thinking now that it worked out?? :huh:

 

[Chilly]

That's the problem, it keeps getting pushed back a year. First it was 08, then 09 and now it's 2010?

I see a pattern here and it's not good.

by who? not me. I have said from day 1 that he was hired, that 5 years should be the time frame that is set to make a judgement on where Hawkins is taking our program. That means 5 FULL years, not 4 year and 2 game, so don't give me crap mid-season next year either. At the end of 5 years, if he survives this year, I am more than willing to give you my final opinion on Hawkins.

 

[Chilly]

Barring catastrophic injuries to multiple players, a bowl game win in year five should be a freaking requirement. Depth should be showcased by year five if a coach really has built a solid foundation. At some point, we have to deal in absolutes for this program. If we keep allowing subjectivity to override objectivity when evaluating a coach's record, we are going to be debating the difference between 6-6 and 7-5 in 2012.

I believe we are saying the same thing. The point is to say NOW that he HAS to win the bowl game without knowing the circumstances surrounding that game is just setting myself up.

 

[Duff Man]

I can see it now. We make a bowl game next season and win. It is a truly magical 7-6 season and the program is officially "back". And that is when Mike Bohn... signs Dan Hawkins to another contract extension. Woot!

 

[White_Rabbit]

Ok so, what is your reasoning as to why we failed this year Chilly? We don't have any big name injuries. If depth is a problem in year 4, that's Hawks fault. If his assistant coaches can't coach, that's his fault. If his players don't come out ready to play, again, his fault. What is going to be so different in year 5?

 

[leftybuff]

What reasons were there to think, record wise, that Pinkell, Mangino, or Stoops were going to turn it around?

Seriously? Stoops lost less games in his first FOUR years than Hawk lost in his FIRST year. I would think Sooner Nation felt pretty good about Bobby after the first four, especially since he pulled an MNC out of his hat in year two.

Mangino was .395, but had two bowls, one win in his first four.

Pinky was .460 with one bowl loss.

Both Pinky and Mangino had posted at least one winning seasons in the first four.

The only thing Hawk has done is equal Pinky's bowl appearance and result. Mangino and Pinky and certainly Stoops had better esults to point to than Hawk after four.

 

[Chilly]

Seriously? Stoops lost less games in his first FOUR years than Hawk lost in his FIRST year. I would think Sooner Nation felt pretty good about Bobby after the first four, especially since he pulled an MNC out of his hat in year two.

Mangino was .395, but had two bowls, one win in his first four.

Pinky was .460 with one bowl loss.

Both Pinky and Mangino had posted at least one winning seasons in the first four.

The only thing Hawk has done is equal Pinky's bowl appearance and result. Mangino and Pinky and certainly Stoops had better esults to point to than Hawk after four.

Wrong Stoops.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I can see it now. We make a bowl game next season and win. It is a truly magical 7-6 season and the program is officially "back". And that is when Mike Bohn... signs Dan Hawkins to another contract extension. Woot!

and that right there is why I don't feel overly excited about Dans 5th year. He and Bohn would be sitting in interviews talking about the awesome 7-6 year with a bowl victory over Louisiana Tech and how next year is the year. Tyler, Speedy, and Simas will be seniors, the national championship will be ours for the taking. Then bam, 5-7 season right after and we wonder where we went wrong. That is of course Dan somehow finds 6 wins in the schedule next year, which is looking highly unlikely. If we can't go to Toledo and win, we certainly won't be going to any of the places we are going next year and winning.