good post.
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CU fans should embrace the stability of Mike MacIntyre
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Read Denver_SC's post above.
So, the logic is basically that we can't compete with other schools for a coach so we should retain the wrong guy an extra in hopes of getting to a year where we won't have to compete?
Either the AD believes that MacIntyre has the program going in the right direction or the wrong direction/not improving fast enough. If they believe that MacIntyre is not the right guy then they should replace him now and not wait another year hoping for a more favorable conditions.
As far as 2012 goes, we had to get rid of Embree. Would you really have argued that we should have kept him another year because there were too many openings?
CUFan
Welcome back
+1. If the AD believes we've got the wrong coach then a change should be made.
PS I'm not advocating making a change. I am simply stating that the concept of waiting for more favorable conditions when you've made the determination you need to make a change is crazy.
No, the logic goes- Mac is making progress, if he was replaced would it be a significant upgrade? If no, don't do it.
We are no longer at rock bottom. You have to be aware that forward is no longer the only direction things can head in.
I'm fine with that logic. I just don't happen to think that 8 or 13 open P5 positions really changes the equation.
SerenityBuff
Well-Known Member
Firing MacIntyre after this season would be a disaster. I can't believe people are actually advocating for this.
Bufffan68
Club Member
For me, I'm not advocating it, but am ambivalent. I don't see RG firing Mac this year unless he has something awesome lined up. However, I don't see Mac getting a 5th year if we don't go bowling in 2016.
Deleted member 807
Guest
This.
Also, with so many openings, who's 100% certain no program will take a run at poaching MacIntyre? If he's as good as some of us choose to believe, then he must be attractive to someone else, right? There's always the "family card". On one hand, he's pretty far from his ailing parents. On the other hand he has his son enrolled at CU.
First, I am leaning towards keeping MikMac, but it isn't really my decision, I just get to have an opinion, and right now mine is give him another year.
Keeping DII Danny for year five, that was a disaster. Dumping MikMac could be a mistake, but I doubt it would cause the harm keeping DII did. I suppose it is possible they could re-hire DII, that would be about the only way I could see it being the same.
But what if they can land a Tom Herman, or Justin Fuente or some other guy who can recruit like a house on fire AND coach? Would it be a disaster? Admittedly, those are long shots, which is why I think you keep MikMac, but suppose something crazy happened?
After watching Gospel According to Mac, I wondered, had MikMac waited to long to get serious about upping the recruiting? Nobody gets the leash as long as Mac did anymore. Would it be a disaster to bring in a new guy, with new facilities a new shiny five year contract and new staff? Maybe they would get the recruiting bump CU desperately needs that MikMac has only made limited progress towards. I don't know, but that is why RG gets the big $$$$ to make those decisions.
Sorry for the confusion; I counted VT but didn't list them. Only 8 P5 openings still.
I must have been unclear. I am against the change this year because of three factors:
1. Losing the stability of retaining MM for one more year (at least; I hope there are many years to come in which MM is successful)
2. The quality of the candidate that's likely to be available to CU in such a hot market
3. The price of said candidate considering how "hot" the market will be
I think those three negatives outweigh the benefit that changing coaches would bring immediate, and might do damage in the long term.
It's definitely a gamble either way, though.
I only brought up 2012 as an example. Embree had to go, but I think it's relevant because CU was rebuffed by so many coaches who ended up moving (Gary Anderson, LunchCart, etc.) because there were more attractive gigs available.
Deleted member 807
Guest
I think people would be surprised at who CU could get for $3.5M per year. It would be someone much better than an attempt to match HCMM's $2M salary.
I'm not really for getting rid of MacIntyre either. I just have an issue with some of the logic behind keeping him.
There will be vacancies every year and we will have to compete against other schools. Just a like a coach has to be able to be able to land a recruit who might have equal or better options, the AD has to be able to convince a coaching candidate that this job is better than those others (Bohn failed miserably at that one).
As far as salary goes, it really don't matter. Wherever the bar is set this year, we would have to pay next year.
Why would CU suddenly be willing / able to pay 3.5M?
Deleted member 807
Guest
I'm not sure they would be able to pay that amount. But so long as we are taking upgrades and stiff competiton, it makes sense to throw out a number that is in the ball park of getting the kind of big name splash that could be a game changer for the program.
When it comes to turning around CU, there is good, cheap, or fast paths forward. We are limited to picking only two.
There are good reasons to keep MM, being worried about the "competition" for coaching talent is not one of them.
I tend to want to say "replace him," but I don't think it's simple, and I'll be ok with the decision to keep him if that's what RG decides. What I won't be happy with is if we keep him and no staff changes are made.
The 2017 recruiting class is going to be critical to the medium term success of the program. If MM is fired next year, that class is pretty much guaranteed to be mediocre at best.
Changes made this year (either head coach or a couple of assistants) are going to impact the quality of that class a lot. On field performance next year is also going to have some impact on it.
Simply put: if you retain MM this offseason, and his performance next year is poor enough to warrant replacing him, 2017 will be a lost class, and the medium term prospects will not be good.
I tend to want to say "replace him," but I don't think it's simple, and I'll be ok with the decision to keep him if that's what RG decides. What I won't be happy with is if we keep him and no staff changes are made.
The 2017 recruiting class is going to be critical to the medium term success of the program. If MM is fired next year, that class is pretty much guaranteed to be mediocre at best.
Changes made this year (either head coach or a couple of assistants) are going to impact the quality of that class a lot. On field performance next year is also going to have some impact on it.
Simply put: if you retain MM this offseason, and his performance next year is poor enough to warrant replacing him, 2017 will be a lost class, and the medium term prospects will not be good.
BlackNGold
Club Member
I could only hope. That would be a really good scenario.
bigskybuff
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="skibum
That's what the decision to keep MM this off season is about: your confidence that he gets a bowl in 2016.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Pretty good summation. It's a gamblers bet right now. We'll see how the season progresses and go from there. I do like MM and Leavitt so my preference is to see them employed here next year. Personally, I think one more year is justified. We are so close and if MMac turns it around, we may have found the Mac we've been searching for.
That's what the decision to keep MM this off season is about: your confidence that he gets a bowl in 2016.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Pretty good summation. It's a gamblers bet right now. We'll see how the season progresses and go from there. I do like MM and Leavitt so my preference is to see them employed here next year. Personally, I think one more year is justified. We are so close and if MMac turns it around, we may have found the Mac we've been searching for.
What if we offer $1.5m and a white Ford Taurus with faintly visible marks where the CUPD stickers were?
maybe we'll win 2 more games and this whole discussion will be moot. 6-7 and a possible bowl bid and i'd give the guy a medal.
we haven't recruited well enough. i believe the difference between us owning a ton of close losses rather than program lifting wins these last 2 years has been talent. some disagree, but that's what i see. imagine if we had a few more difference-makers mixed in...
some complain about play calling and such, but i think overall the coaching has been above average to outstanding.
i'm rooting for these guys to succeed. still a lot of football to be played and it could break a lot of different ways for our program and this staff.
we haven't recruited well enough. i believe the difference between us owning a ton of close losses rather than program lifting wins these last 2 years has been talent. some disagree, but that's what i see. imagine if we had a few more difference-makers mixed in...
some complain about play calling and such, but i think overall the coaching has been above average to outstanding.
i'm rooting for these guys to succeed. still a lot of football to be played and it could break a lot of different ways for our program and this staff.
It's weird when you post sober.
As weird and rare as you posting something relevant to the thread in which you are posting.
JWP303
Well-Known Member
I just think back to the last coaching search, and all of the guys who weren't interested, and I wonder how it would be any different this time around... Said differently: unless there is a miracle worker out there, I think we would be naive to expect measurably different results for the type of coach who would be interested in this job.
So I agree with the idea that we really need to re-frame our expectations and be happy that Mac has lifted us out of the zone where we were just hemorrhaging players and getting blown out in embarrassing fashion in every single game. I was actually watching the 4th quarter of a road game last week with real interest!
Granted, it's a sad and depressing commentary on the state of the program - but the realist in me thinks that it could still be worse.
So I agree with the idea that we really need to re-frame our expectations and be happy that Mac has lifted us out of the zone where we were just hemorrhaging players and getting blown out in embarrassing fashion in every single game. I was actually watching the 4th quarter of a road game last week with real interest!
Granted, it's a sad and depressing commentary on the state of the program - but the realist in me thinks that it could still be worse.
I'm trying to take things more seriously. This is important!
The facilities and IPF are a huge attraction that weren't even in the plans the last time we were looking for a coach. We also have a more competitive team now than we did 3 years ago, and top notch AD that can, in theory, schmooze with the best of them.
Anyone can schmooze with the best of them, in theory.
This is a good post, however there's an issue with it and this logic of not firing because competition is too tough for a new coach. This issue is every coach hired this year, will also be unavailable to us next year. So we would be competing next year with other schools, but the 15 coaches hired this year aren't even available candidates. That's why the predicament is the same every year.
I can confidently say that no program will hire MacIntyre. I am well over 100% certain.