CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[The Alabaster Yak]

I can't believe so much is being made of road destinations. In fact I'd argue that podunk towns like Manhattan, Ames, Lubbock, Stillwater, etc. are better places to go for games than some apathetic college town or a big metro area where the team is an afterthought. The aforementioned towns center around college football on a game weekend which is what you want when traveling to a road game - a town and environment centered around the game.

When I go to a road game I'm going to support the Buffs and for a great college atmosphere, not for a luxury vacation.

Right. Two types of road trips for games. Vacation with a Buffs game mixed in, or a Buffs game as the “vacation”. I’d rather go to Lincoln for a CU vs Nebraska game than anywhere in CA for a CU roadie.

I think the mentality on this board about this topic is a microcosm of why the Pac 12 has failed.

 

[Victory]

Right. Two types of road trips for games. Vacation with a Buffs game mixed in, or a Buffs game as the “vacation”. I’d rather go to Lincoln for a CU vs Nebraska game than anywhere in CA for a CU roadie.

I think the mentality on this board about this topic is a microcosm of why the Pac 12 has failed.

Listen, I agree to an extent. But we’re really talking about Stanford, Cal, and UCLA, Arizona to a degree. The other places are fine football locations. But the Bay Area especially gives it a bad rep.

I’d also argue we failed the Pac-12 up until this offseason. For the reasons we all know and don’t need to get into but had we actually stepped up when we joined the conference reputation would be better than it is right now.

 

[Liver]

first, the pac didn't fail. the pac got shanked by the bad acts of 2 member schools.

next, as someone who road tripped to every big 8 conference opponent at least once and most of the big 12 too, i can say with certainty that you can have fun anywhere. you can have MORE fun some places. this idea that LA is apathetic toward college football is a bit misguided. if that were true, then they wouldn't have been able to shank us for the money. i would speculate i have been to far far more usc and ucla football games (and stanford and cal, too) than most of you. usc is electric when they are winning. ucla is hot and cold. stanford has been hot at times but mostly cold. cal has pretty much been quiet and boring the times i have been.

if we join the trailer park 12, i will hit some of the easy destinations that i can get to via flight but the chance of me visiting stool water or lubbock or little manhattan again are slim to none unless it is a hugely meaningful game. i did my time and can assure you that it is far easier to have a good time at ANY pac road game than those little **** holes.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Listen, I agree to an extent. But we’re really talking about Stanford, Cal, and UCLA, Arizona to a degree. The other places are fine football locations. But the Bay Area especially gives it a bad rep.

I’d also argue we failed the Pac-12 up until this offseason. For the reasons we all know and don’t need to get into but had we actually stepped up when we joined the conference reputation would be better than it is right now.

Eh even USC fans don’t want to go to their games. Point is, most people who live in the western half of the US simply don’t live and breathe CFB like those in the Midwest and South and that is the difference.

The only program to blame for the Pac 12’s demise is its lone blue blood in USC. The bull**** that pushed Carroll to the league and then bad hire after bad hire that relegated them to a middling program is what ultimately cost the conference.

 

[Buffnik]

Pac-12 launched with the richest deal among the conferences. Its fatal flaw was buying into a very misguided vision from a Commissioner who did a great job of telling the presidents what they wanted to hear while fleecing the conference.

In hindsight, the biggest mistake was not selling a major percentage of PACN to ESPN or FOX. It ended up that the major networks were vested in our failure instead of our success. One of the dominoes I am pretty confident would have fallen from there is that we'd have seen LHN rolled in with UT & OU joining (maybe with 2 others from the B12, likely TTU & KU).

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

first, the pac didn't fail. the pac got shanked by the bad acts of 2 member schools.

next, as someone who road tripped to every big 8 conference opponent at least once and most of the big 12 too, i can say with certainty that you can have fun anywhere. you can have MORE fun some places. this idea that LA is apathetic toward college football is a bit misguided. if that were true, then they wouldn't have been able to shank us for the money. i would speculate i have been to far far more usc and ucla football games (and stanford and cal, too) than most of you. usc is electric when they are winning. ucla is hot and cold. stanford has been hot at times but mostly cold. cal has pretty much been quiet and boring the times i have been.

if we join the trailer park 12, i will hit some of the easy destinations that i can get to via flight but the chance of me visiting stool water or lubbock or little manhattan again are slim to none unless it is a hugely meaningful game. i did my time and can assure you that it is far easier to have a good time at ANY pac road game than those little **** holes.

The two programs left because the Pac 12 failed. USC is a big reason for its failure, Larry Scott and an apathetic CEO group that didn’t keep him in check failed miserably. The brilliant idea of the Pac12 Network and owning 100% of the rights was an epic failure.

The Pac 12 failed in almost every way imaginable.

 

[Victory]

Eh even USC fans don’t want to go to their games. Point is, most people who live in the western half of the US simply don’t live and breathe CFB like those in the Midwest and South and that is the difference.

The only program to blame for the Pac 12’s demise is its lone blue blood in USC. The bull**** that pushed Carroll to the league and then bad hire after bad hire that relegated them to a middling program is what ultimately cost the conference.

They don’t all live and breathe it (some do) but that’s ok. But I don’t need frothing mouth breathers to feel like the game means more to me.

 

[hawg1]

Former President of ESPN, John Skipper, who negotiated the ACC media deal, says ACC and Pac 10 need to merge which would force a renegotiation to the conference media rights. He says take 8 of 10 Pac programs to create a 24 team conference but I think he misspoke as it would need to be all 10 for 24 teams.

This makes sense. But is seems like the renegotiation of the media rights would open the ACC GOR allowing SEC and B1G to cherry pick the elites. Maybe he addressed this. I’ll listen later.

 

[Liver]

Eh even USC fans don’t want to go to their games.

this is simply not true. flat out, not reality based. you'd give a left nut if our dedicated football fan base donated a small portion of what usc boosters do. and, their games fill up when they win. that stadium rocks pretty good and it has a lot of pageantry and tradition.

there are lots of things i hate about usc, but they own the LA college football market. their gear is everywhere. ucla has been second fiddle their entire existence and ucla fans have a chip on their shoulder the size of ralphie.

just really bad take, man.

 

[CarolinaBuff]

Pac-12 launched with the richest deal among the conferences. Its fatal flaw was buying into a very misguided vision from a Commissioner who did a great job of telling the presidents what they wanted to hear while fleecing the conference.

In hindsight, the biggest mistake was not selling a major percentage of PACN to ESPN or FOX. It ended up that the major networks were vested in our failure instead of our success. One of the dominoes I am pretty confident would have fallen from there is that we'd have seen LHN rolled in with UT & OU joining (maybe with 2 others from the B12, likely TTU & KU).

This right here, easily the biggest factor for the Pac12 being in their current situation. Next was not having an elite team nationally on a regular basis. If USC or someone had a 5-6 year run like Clemson had that would've likely changed the image of the conference. And ideally that would've been USC as Yak mentioned since they're a national brand and true blueblood.

 

[hawg1]

Forget merging with the ACC, do a merge with the B12 AND the ACC. Combine all three into one national conference and kick a few stragglers to the curb in the process. Make it a 32 team “league” and use the P12 network infrastructure to televise all the games. Profit.

This is the end game indeed, IMO, but it needs to be a two-step process

 

[Darth Snow]

Pac-12 launched with the richest deal among the conferences. Its fatal flaw was buying into a very misguided vision from a Commissioner who did a great job of telling the presidents what they wanted to hear while fleecing the conference.

In hindsight, the biggest mistake was not selling a major percentage of PACN to ESPN or FOX. It ended up that the major networks were vested in our failure instead of our success. One of the dominoes I am pretty confident would have fallen from there is that we'd have seen LHN rolled in with UT & OU joining (maybe with 2 others from the B12, likely TTU & KU).

Larry Scott singlehandedly ruined the PAC

 

[Buffnik]

They don’t all live and breathe it (some do) but that’s ok. But I don’t need frothing mouth breathers to feel like the game means more to me.

Which brings me to the other point of failure. USC was limping and rudderless after the NCAA sanctions & the good ole boys coming in to "fix" things. UCLA had "Chianti Dan" running things, which gave Larry Scott a powerful likeminded guy among the ADs. Washington was humbled and in recovery from going winless in 2008.

USC and Washington should have been taking the leadership seats in the room. Instead, into the vacuum stepped a Bay Area vision for the conference focused on Olympic sports and making San Francisco the hub for everything.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

They don’t all live and breathe it (some do) but that’s ok. But I don’t need frothing mouth breathers to feel like the game means more to me.

Of course it’s OK and I know there are exceptions, but I don’t know how to make my general point any more clear about the difference in mentality and why it matters on a broad scale

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

This makes sense. But is seems like the renegotiation of the media rights would open the ACC GOR allowing SEC and B1G to cherry pick the elites. Maybe he addressed this. I’ll listen later.

He did not address that. It was only a 4-5 minute discussion and they were back on FSU’s whining

 

[Uncle Ken]

I can't believe so much is being made of road destinations. In fact I'd argue that podunk towns like Manhattan, Ames, Lubbock, Stillwater, etc. are better places to go for games than some apathetic college town or a big metro area where the team is an afterthought. The aforementioned towns center around college football on a game weekend which is what you want when traveling to a road game - a town and environment centered around the game.

When I go to a road game I'm going to support the Buffs and for a great college atmosphere, not for a luxury vacation.

You make a fair point, but for me it's mostly a brand thing (even though I brought up road trips).

Big 12 (or SEC for that matter, but I acknowledge the money aspect and that I'm in a minority there) are not brands that I would want our school to be associated with. Really, to my way of thinking, Pac is the best brand for us, regardless of how poorly that's been working out for the last decade. I know that the Pac brand doesn't land for you, and that's fine. But even as an ACC and SEC fan, would you want CU to be associated with the current iteration of the Big 12?

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

this is simply not true. flat out, not reality based. you'd give a left nut if our dedicated football fan base donated a small portion of what usc boosters do. and, their games fill up when they win. that stadium rocks pretty good and it has a lot of pageantry and tradition.

there are lots of things i hate about usc, but they own the LA college football market. their gear is everywhere. ucla has been second fiddle their entire existence and ucla fans have a chip on their shoulder the size of ralphie.

just really bad take, man.

USC, one of maybe 5-6 true blue bloods in the sport, owns the LA College Football market? I would hope so!

Also, did you see the turn out at Folsom for a winless CU team playing ****ty Cal? So please, tell me more about how USC football means a lot to the people of LA because they are fairweather fans.

 

[Liver]

USC, one of maybe 5-6 true blue bloods in the sport, owns the LA College Football market? I would hope so!

Also, did you see the turn out at Folsom for a winless CU team playing ****ty Cal? So please, tell me more about how USC football means a lot to the people of LA because they are literal fairweather fans.

you are the one choosing to "compare" fan bases. all i said was that their fans and boosters and their game day experience and their control of their market are a lot better than you seem to believe.

every team in LA does a lot better when they are winning. so, yeah, i guess that is "fair-weather" but i would suggest it also drives the college and sports teams to seek true excellence too. there are no monforts in ownership in the LA market.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

you are the one choosing to "compare" fan bases. all i said was that their fans and boosters and their game day experience and their control of their market are a lot better than you seem to believe.

every team in LA does a lot better when they are winning. so, yeah, i guess that is "fair-weather" but i would suggest it also drives the college and sports teams to seek true excellence too. there are no monforts in ownership in the LA market.

This whole discussion is about comparing fanbases and USC’s sucks unless they are winning… which brings us back full circle to the original point about (largely) why the Pac 12 failed; a somewhat fair weather attitude toward college football out West compared to the Midwest and South.

Even with USC and UCLA, the estimate for a Pac 12 TV deal was around $500m total, or $41m/school. Half of what the B1G and SEC are getting. This isn’t hard to understand why we are where we are

 

[Emmanuel Goldstein]

Is Stillwater or Lubbock as fun as Tempe or Seattle? Lol ..of course not but road trips shouldn't be the #1 reason to be in a conference. BTW I've heard there are some fun bars/restaurants near Okie St.

As for BIG 12 roadies... I'd go to Morgantown, Cincinnati, Orlando. I hear KU has a pretty campus.

Cinci only if a Thanksgiving game. I hear Turkeys can fly.

 

[Not Sure]

Cinci only if a Thanksgiving game. I hear Turkeys can fly.

Only in Cincinnati.

 

[Daaah]

Fan support for Stanford athletics has always been pathetic, regardless of whether they’re winning or not. I’ll never forget going out there in 2011 to see Andrew Luck absolutely eviscerate us. CU probably had 5,000 fans in attendance and made it seem like a neutral site game. Of course, we didn’t have much to cheer for after about ten minutes of game time. Their tailgating scene is top notch. Too bad it’s lost on the wine sipping crowd.

And yeah, in terms of financial support, Stanford is fine. If they get left behind, they’ll cobble together a conference with them, Cal, OSU and WSU and then add in a few others and will be very happy.

The Bay area just doesn't care about college sports. My first year here I bought season tickets for Cal because they were really good and I love college football. I remember watching them play Oregon State when they were ranked top 10 in the country and ended up moving to the visitors' section because the home crowd was so apathetic and boring.

 

[GABuff]

Only in Cincinnati.

But you have to be careful. They will launch a counterattack. It's almost as if they are organized.

 

[Buffnik]

The Bay area just doesn't care about college sports. My first year here I bought season tickets for Cal because they were really good and I love college football. I remember watching them play Oregon State when they were ranked top 10 in the country and ended up moving to the visitors' section because the home crowd was so apathetic and boring.

Just looked it up. Cal Memorial Stadium seats 63k. No home game drew 40k except the Stanford crosstown rivalry game at 51k.

Stanford Stadium seats 50.4k and its best draw was the USC rivalry game at 43k. Next best was OSU for 32k. All others at 25-27k.

Ouch.

 

[BoulderBorn]

Yea I mean the tent city, feces and needles thing suck. Sanfransicko, la, Seattle. Usc and ucla fleeing to the Midwest? Crazy. Loving some Indiana and Illinois. Like the California populace fleeing to TX and Fla.

 

[Hank]

I can't believe so much is being made of road destinations. In fact I'd argue that podunk towns like Manhattan, Ames, Lubbock, Stillwater, etc. are better places to go for games than some apathetic college town or a big metro area where the team is an afterthought. The aforementioned towns center around college football on a game weekend which is what you want when traveling to a road game - a town and environment centered around the game.

When I go to a road game I'm going to support the Buffs and for a great college atmosphere, not for a luxury vacation.

I don't really care about the destinations. I just think the schools suck and don't want to be associated with them.

 

[Daaah]

Just looked it up. Cal Memorial Stadium seats 63k. No home game drew 40k except the Stanford crosstown rivalry game at 51k.

Stanford Stadium seats 50.4k and its best draw was the USC rivalry game at 43k. Next best was OSU for 32k. All others at 25-27k.

Ouch.

Also, another reason why it was so stupid to have the pac-12 championship game at Levi's stadium in Santa Clara on Friday nights at 5:00 p.m. local time for years. It's like they were trying to limit attendance to the championship game or something.

 

[Buffnik]

Also, another reason why it was so stupid to have the pac-12 championship game at Levi's stadium in Santa Clara on Friday nights at 5:00 p.m. local time for years. It's like they were trying to limit attendance to the championship game or something.

Larry didn't like having to work weekends or traveling for business.

 

[chipwich]

Larry didn't like having to work

FIFY

 

[PAHIBuff]

Exactly. It got you out of the Big 12 and into the PAC 12. How's that working out for you?

Go away. I'm eating.