CU has rejoined the Big 12 and broken college football - talking out asses continues

[AeroBuff99]

The most logical way forward for college football would be to separate from the conferences themselves, allowing all other sports to go back to more logical, regional leagues, as all other sports have a defined playoff system and multiple contests.

The way I envision it, is that all 133 FBS teams would form the College Football Association and collectively sell yearly media rights like the NFL does. Divide those teams into 8 regions with 2 divisions each of 8 to 9 teams per division. Each team plays the other 7 in its division plus 4 to 5 cross region games in the same division. The top team from the lower division would move up the next year to the top division and the lower one would move down, within the same region. Playoffs would be a 16 team playoff, top 2 teams from each D1 region. D2 schools would not be eligible for the playoff but instead play a D2 championship (8 team playoff).

Now when it comes to money, I would guarantee each division 2 team a base amount (roughly what they get now from media rights) with performance escalators that if you finish in the top 2 in division 2 you would get the same base as the division 1 teams. This would ease the blow for getting relegated down as well as make it easier to move up. The Division 1 teams would get paid based on finishing order and appearances, so you finish at the top you make more, or if you are popular you make more. But the appearance incentives would be smaller compared to the competition incentives. Every team would have to provide compensation to the players based on their division.

Basketball rights and rights for all other sports would be separate and outside the CFA, likely handled like it is today.

There would be numerous schools that would take that in a heartbeat, knowing that they don't ever want to invest to compete consistently at the highest level, but also knowing that if they put a run together they can possibly move up for a couple of years. It would vastly reduce travel costs, create more broadcast windows, and reduce the need for shuffling around.

 

[ahoelsken]

Jason Horowitz on Twitter saying the SEC started this. Sure, but Texas and Oklahoma have at least 3 easy trips for non-revenue sports in that league.

That's not the same as the Big 10 totally throwing geography out the window last week.

 

[ahoelsken]

The most logical way forward for college football would be to separate from the conferences themselves, allowing all other sports to go back to more logical, regional leagues, as all other sports have a defined playoff system and multiple contests.

The way I envision it, is that all 133 FBS teams would form the College Football Association and collectively sell yearly media rights like the NFL does. Divide those teams into 8 regions with 2 divisions each of 8 to 9 teams per division. Each team plays the other 7 in its division plus 4 to 5 cross region games in the same division. The top team from the lower division would move up the next year to the top division and the lower one would move down, within the same region. Playoffs would be a 16 team playoff, top 2 teams from each D1 region. D2 schools would not be eligible for the playoff but instead play a D2 championship (8 team playoff).

Now when it comes to money, I would guarantee each division 2 team a base amount (roughly what they get now from media rights) with performance escalators that if you finish in the top 2 in division 2 you would get the same base as the division 1 teams. This would ease the blow for getting relegated down as well as make it easier to move up. The Division 1 teams would get paid based on finishing order and appearances, so you finish at the top you make more, or if you are popular you make more. But the appearance incentives would be smaller compared to the competition incentives. Every team would have to provide compensation to the players based on their division.

Basketball rights and rights for all other sports would be separate and outside the CFA, likely handled like it is today.

There would be numerous schools that would take that in a heartbeat, knowing that they don't ever want to invest to compete consistently at the highest level, but also knowing that if they put a run together they can possibly move up for a couple of years. It would vastly reduce travel costs, create more broadcast windows, and reduce the need for shuffling around.

I like the idea, but we'd need a commissioner. Do you pull Klatt out of the booth for that?

 

[Jens1893]

The most logical way forward for college football would be to separate from the conferences themselves, allowing all other sports to go back to more logical, regional leagues, as all other sports have a defined playoff system and multiple contests.

The way I envision it, is that all 133 FBS teams would form the College Football Association and collectively sell yearly media rights like the NFL does. Divide those teams into 8 regions with 2 divisions each of 8 to 9 teams per division. Each team plays the other 7 in its division plus 4 to 5 cross region games in the same division. The top team from the lower division would move up the next year to the top division and the lower one would move down, within the same region. Playoffs would be a 16 team playoff, top 2 teams from each D1 region. D2 schools would not be eligible for the playoff but instead play a D2 championship (8 team playoff).

Now when it comes to money, I would guarantee each division 2 team a base amount (roughly what they get now from media rights) with performance escalators that if you finish in the top 2 in division 2 you would get the same base as the division 1 teams. This would ease the blow for getting relegated down as well as make it easier to move up. The Division 1 teams would get paid based on finishing order and appearances, so you finish at the top you make more, or if you are popular you make more. But the appearance incentives would be smaller compared to the competition incentives. Every team would have to provide compensation to the players based on their division.

Basketball rights and rights for all other sports would be separate and outside the CFA, likely handled like it is today.

There would be numerous schools that would take that in a heartbeat, knowing that they don't ever want to invest to compete consistently at the highest level, but also knowing that if they put a run together they can possibly move up for a couple of years. It would vastly reduce travel costs, create more broadcast windows, and reduce the need for shuffling around.

The problem with your plan is what Albert Breer said yesterday. Fans talk about loving the regional aspect, but they don't act like it. Fans want to see Alabama v USC and not Iowa v Iowa State. Big teams playing big teams is what moves the needle and is what the big teams and the networks want. They want a largely closed shop where the big teams are largely among themselves and don't have to deal with the Louisiana Techs. The big teams would also push for a bigger piece of the pie purely based on the value of their brands and the size of their fanbases and wouldn't go for payouts purely based on on-field results.

Your plan also doesn't account for the competitive imbalance between the regions as some regions are just significantly more competitive than others.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

The problem with your plan is what Albert Breer said yesterday. Fans talk about loving the regional aspect, but they don't act like it. Fans want to see Alabama v USC and not Iowa v Iowa State. Big teams playing big teams is what moves the needle and is what the big teams and the networks want. They want a largely closed shop where the big teams are largely among themselves and don't have to deal with the Louisiana Techs. The big teams would also push for a bigger piece of the pie purely based on the value of their brands and the size of their fanbases and wouldn't go for payouts purely based on on-field results.

Your plan also doesn't account for the competitive imbalance between the regions as some regions are just significantly more competitive than others.

That's a narrative being pushed by networks, IMO. Big teams playing big teams has a national draw because it only happens a handful of times per season, especially OOC matchups between Bama and USC. Of course USC vs Cal isn't going to rate well in the Midwest and East, just as LSU vs Miss State doesn't rate well out West. People within the region watch and love the regional matchups, but the networks have decided that 1m viewers is the standard for a decent rating CFB game, with 4m viewers being the "great game"... for their own revenues, not necessarily for the fans.

 

[Jens1893]

That's a narrative being pushed by networks, IMO. Big teams playing big teams has a national draw because it only happens a handful of times per season, especially OOC matchups between Bama and USC. Of course USC vs Cal isn't going to rate well in the Midwest and East, just as LSU vs Miss State doesn't rate well out West. People within the region watch and love the regional matchups, but the networks have decided that 1m viewers is the standard for a decent rating CFB game, with 4m viewers being the "great game"... for their own revenues, not necessarily for the fans.

I don't disagree that part of what makes those matchups special is that they only happen once in a while and that people might get fatigued of them if they become the norm, but it is the same discussion in European football, but as I have said before, I think that's the direction CFB is headed in as I see a lot of similar processes, dynamics and arguments (such as yours, btw).

 

[LesGrossman]

I’ll be interested to see just how “marquee” these teams and matchups are once you’re baking in numerous losses.

Colorado was a marquee team until we started losing. Now we suck and we’re irrelevant. I’m sure we’ll see the same from teams like Oregon/UCLA/etc

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I don't disagree that part of what makes those matchups special is that they only happen once in a while and that people might get fatigued of them if they become the norm, but it is the same discussion in European football, but as I have said before, I think that's the direction CFB is headed in as I see a lot of similar processes, dynamics and arguments (such as yours, btw).

I just think Breer's narrative is false. Of course more fans are watching the nationally televised, highly marketed games in CFB, just like more fans watch Sunday Night Football than the Tennessee vs Indianapolis 1pm ET kickoff on CBS.

However, even that Tenn vs Indy game outdraws most every CFB game in a given week because of scarcity and because it has fantasy value and matters within the bigger picture of the league. This is why CFB is moving in this direction; the networks make more money on these kinds of games and don't really care to pay for the regional games that only draw 300-500k viewers.

We all know this, it's just funny how, once again, there is a narrative being created that this is the fault of the fans.

 

[Jens1893]

I’ll be interested to see just how “marquee” these teams and matchups are once you’re baking in numerous losses.

Colorado was a marquee team until we started losing. Now we suck and we’re irrelevant. I’m sure we’ll see the same from teams like Oregon/UCLA/etc

I am not sure that losing is the real danger, I think fan interest dropping to exhaustion might be the real problem when games that people see as highlights today because they don't happen often become a common occurrence and the novelty factor wears off.

 

[Jens1893]

I just think Breer's narrative is false. Of course more fans are watching the nationally televised, highly marketed games in CFB, just like more fans watch Sunday Night Football than the Tennessee vs Indianapolis 1pm ET kickoff on CBS.

However, even that Tenn vs Indy game outdraws most every CFB game in a given week because of scarcity and because it has fantasy value and matters within the bigger picture of the league. This is why CFB is moving in this direction; the networks make more money on these kinds of games and don't really care to pay for the regional games that only draw 300-500k viewers.

We all know this, it's just funny how, once again, there is a narrative being created that this is the fault of the fans.

I am not surre I'd call it a narrative. I think the networks may read the room incorrectly and don't understand how fans tick and the big/elite/marquee (call it what you want) teams are blinded by the money the networks promised them if they act as instructed.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I am not sure that losing is the real danger, I think fan interest dropping to exhaustion might be the real problem when games that people see as highlights today because they don't happen often become a common occurrence and the novelty factor wears off.

I think that's a real possibility, but I also agree with Les and said this when UT and OU went to the SEC, but there is simply not enough room for OU, UT, Bama, LSU, aTm, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, and Tennessee; all programs that believe they can and should be in the national title conversation every year, to all win 9+ games and make the playoff.

I think there is going to be some real losing fatigue from those programs and fanbases over the next decade, especially when they look at some programs in other conferences going 12-0 and being a top 4 seed in the CFP.

Of course, the ultimate worry is the B1G and SEC calling bull**** on all that and getting the CFP to remove autobids

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I am not surre I'd call it a narrative. I think the networks may read the room incorrectly and don't understand how fans tick and the big/elite/marquee (call it what you want) teams are blinded by the money the networks promised them if they act as instructed.

The narrative Breer created is, "fans say they love regional matchups, but their viewing habits don't support this". That's an excuse being pedaled by the networks for justifying their actions of consolidation. I also don't accept that the networks simply "read the room incorrectly and don't understand fans". They absolutely know fans better than anyone, they just don't want to pay for the same for low rated regional matchups as they do for high rated national matchups.

 

[PhillyBuff]

National v. Regional matchups... I would love for Colorado to play Penn State or Pittsburgh (just as Not Sure is dying for a Tulane matchup). I would love for Colorado to play Florida, Miami, Florida State, LSU, Clemson, or Alabama (I saw Miami and FSU live- and we DO play Florida in a few years).

I want BOTH- regional and national matchups.... and we will get both. Nebraska is my favorite game no matter what. I loved playing Oklahoma and for awhile KSU. I did not get as excited for Iowa State or Kansas. I think you absolutely need BOTH. You need to play 2 of those BIG out of conference matchups and then play your region.

Now we are going to get Arizonas (plural), Utah, KSU, Kansas, Oklahoma State and then maybe I will get excited for WVU. UCF and Cincinatti don't move the needle

Since we joined the Pac-12, I got excited for USC, Washington, Oregon and Utah. That was it. You obviously cant have every week be a major matchup- the laws of math dictate that one team has to win and one team has to lose, so big conference teams are going to have losing and winning records... thus negating BIG matchups later in the season based on how well certain teams do.

No matter how many conference changes we make, we will WANT a few national matchups and many regional matchups. That makes sense.

 

[Jens1893]

I think that's a real possibility, but I also agree with Les and said this when UT and OU went to the SEC, but there is simply not enough room for OU, UT, Bama, LSU, aTm, Georgia, Auburn, Florida, and Tennessee; all programs that believe they can and should be in the national title conversation every year, to all win 9+ games and make the playoff.

I think there is going to be some real losing fatigue from those programs and fanbases over the next decade, especially when they look at some programs in other conferences going 12-0 and being a top 4 seed in the CFP.

Of course, the ultimate worry is the B1G and SEC calling bull**** on all that and getting the CFP to remove autobids

Or the marquee programs doing their own thing outside the current SEC/B1G/NCAA structure. They can write the rules as they like in that case. The conferences and the NCAA are just empty shells, the true power lies with the schools as they play the games.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Or the marquee programs doing their own thing outside the current SEC/B1G/NCAA structure. They can write the rules as they like in that case. The conferences and the NCAA are just empty shells, the true power lies with the schools as they play the games.

The more I think about what it would actually take for a complete separation from the NCAA or even the conference format, the less likely I think it will actually happen. This would be a full fledged separation from the University itself, but still using the University naming rights, facilities, etc. It would also mean the athletes are no longer students in any capacity, which means they would be employees. There would need to be a league entity created with one governing body, a CBA between the league and PA. It also isn't Nick Saban or Kirby Smart making that kind of decision for their programs. It's the University Presidents, Chancellors, Regents, and potentially state legislatures.

I can see Chip Kelly's scenario of football breaking away from traditional conference affiliations and joining a single "league" that pools their media rights, but breaking away from NCAA and essentially becoming an official semi pro football league feels like fantasy to me

 

[Buffnik]

The more I think about what it would actually take for a complete separation from the NCAA or even the conference format, the less likely I think it will actually happen. This would be a full fledged separation from the University itself, but still using the University naming rights, facilities, etc. It would also mean the athletes are no longer students in any capacity, which means they would be employees. There would need to be a league entity created with one governing body, a CBA between the league and PA. It also isn't Nick Saban or Kirby Smart making that kind of decision for their programs. It's the University Presidents, Chancellors, Regents, and potentially state legislatures.

I can see Chip Kelly's scenario of football breaking away from traditional conference affiliations and joining a single "league" that pools their media rights, but breaking away from NCAA and essentially becoming an official semi pro football league feels like fantasy to me

Notre Dame's President talked about this about a year ago. He said that it's coming down to whether the future is that universities will need to decide whether they will have a professional football franchise with university branding & affiliation or they will be a university which sponsors a football program. He said that ND is committed to the latter but others will go the other direction. FSU is clearly investigating opportunities to become a football franchise, even exploring the potential of selling out to Saudi investors.

 

[Buffs35]

I am not sure that losing is the real danger, I think fan interest dropping to exhaustion might be the real problem when games that people see as highlights today because they don't happen often become a common occurrence and the novelty factor wears off.

Correct. Same thing happened with interleague play in baseball.

 

[InTheBuff]

Keeler: CSU Rams’ best conference realignment option? Follow (gasp!) San Diego State’s lead. Build biggest monster you can.

The painful truth? The boat the Rams needed to be on sailed years ago, when the Big 12 snapped up Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU.

www.denverpost.com

csu's finances are bleak - the football team is losing them money-

The TLR takeaway was that a) expenses are far outpacing revenue among Colorado’s public universities; b) only two sports at the Division I or Division II level produced enough self-supporting revenue for the 2022 fiscal year to land in the black — CU Buffs football and Buffs men’s basketball.

CSU’s numbers were especially bleak. Per the auditor’s report, the Rams spent more in the ’22 fiscal year on football ($30.9 million) than CU ($25.5 million) with only $19.2 million in “self-supporting” revenue — ticket sales, media rights, merchandise, etc. — coming back, for a deficit of $11.7 million. (The report posted a Buffs surplus of $22.9 million, and this was for a 12-month period from July ’21-June ’22, before Deion Sanders rolled into town.)

The contrasts between 2013 and 2022 in Fort Collins were even more stark, with the report noting healthy revenue increases of contributions (123%), royalties (148%) and ticket sales (59%) — while the Rams’ coaching salaries jumped 38%, support staff salaries 47% and “direct overhead” by a whopping 13,052%. We’ll give you three guesses as to the specific item of “overhead” that last number is referring to, and your first two don’t count. (Hint: It rhymes with “Lanvas Radium.”)

Bottom line? The Rams’ credit cards are already getting maxed out, and all the bake sales and GoFundMes in the world won’t fix it. More CFP and TV bucks might. (Per the auditor, CSU collected $3.2 million for the ’22 fiscal in media rights revenues; CU took home $18.4 million.)

 

[PAC MAN]

 

[#1 pick]

A lot of mystery right now

 

[jaybird]

Notre Dame's President talked about this about a year ago. He said that it's coming down to whether the future is that universities will need to decide whether they will have a professional football franchise with university branding & affiliation or they will be a university which sponsors a football program. He said that ND is committed to the latter but others will go the other direction. FSU is clearly investigating opportunities to become a football franchise, even exploring the potential of selling out to Saudi investors.

The wrinkle I see with the idea of forming professional sports teams affiliated with schools, where the athletes are paid etc etc is gonna be Title IX. If it comes to that, I think that is the straw which will break the floodgates open on the federal government getting involved. There will be enough push from both sides of the aisle, from those concerned about equality and those left out as well as other competing interests, to do something.

 

[PAC MAN]

A lot of mystery right now

I'm enjoying the calm this week before things pick up again at the end of this week to Monday given that ACC 8/15 deadline.

 

[FlaBuff]

Keeler: CSU Rams’ best conference realignment option? Follow (gasp!) San Diego State’s lead. Build biggest monster you can.

The painful truth? The boat the Rams needed to be on sailed years ago, when the Big 12 snapped up Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU.

www.denverpost.com

csu's finances are bleak - the football team is losing them money-

The TLR takeaway was that a) expenses are far outpacing revenue among Colorado’s public universities; b) only two sports at the Division I or Division II level produced enough self-supporting revenue for the 2022 fiscal year to land in the black — CU Buffs football and Buffs men’s basketball.

CSU’s numbers were especially bleak. Per the auditor’s report, the Rams spent more in the ’22 fiscal year on football ($30.9 million) than CU ($25.5 million) with only $19.2 million in “self-supporting” revenue — ticket sales, media rights, merchandise, etc. — coming back, for a deficit of $11.7 million. (The report posted a Buffs surplus of $22.9 million, and this was for a 12-month period from July ’21-June ’22, before Deion Sanders rolled into town.)

The contrasts between 2013 and 2022 in Fort Collins were even more stark, with the report noting healthy revenue increases of contributions (123%), royalties (148%) and ticket sales (59%) — while the Rams’ coaching salaries jumped 38%, support staff salaries 47% and “direct overhead” by a whopping 13,052%. We’ll give you three guesses as to the specific item of “overhead” that last number is referring to, and your first two don’t count. (Hint: It rhymes with “Lanvas Radium.”)

Bottom line? The Rams’ credit cards are already getting maxed out, and all the bake sales and GoFundMes in the world won’t fix it. More CFP and TV bucks might. (Per the auditor, CSU collected $3.2 million for the ’22 fiscal in media rights revenues; CU took home $18.4 million.)

 

[PAC MAN]

Keeler: CSU Rams’ best conference realignment option? Follow (gasp!) San Diego State’s lead. Build biggest monster you can.

The painful truth? The boat the Rams needed to be on sailed years ago, when the Big 12 snapped up Cincinnati, UCF, Houston and BYU.

www.denverpost.com

csu's finances are bleak - the football team is losing them money-

The TLR takeaway was that a) expenses are far outpacing revenue among Colorado’s public universities; b) only two sports at the Division I or Division II level produced enough self-supporting revenue for the 2022 fiscal year to land in the black — CU Buffs football and Buffs men’s basketball.

CSU’s numbers were especially bleak. Per the auditor’s report, the Rams spent more in the ’22 fiscal year on football ($30.9 million) than CU ($25.5 million) with only $19.2 million in “self-supporting” revenue — ticket sales, media rights, merchandise, etc. — coming back, for a deficit of $11.7 million. (The report posted a Buffs surplus of $22.9 million, and this was for a 12-month period from July ’21-June ’22, before Deion Sanders rolled into town.)

The contrasts between 2013 and 2022 in Fort Collins were even more stark, with the report noting healthy revenue increases of contributions (123%), royalties (148%) and ticket sales (59%) — while the Rams’ coaching salaries jumped 38%, support staff salaries 47% and “direct overhead” by a whopping 13,052%. We’ll give you three guesses as to the specific item of “overhead” that last number is referring to, and your first two don’t count. (Hint: It rhymes with “Lanvas Radium.”)

Bottom line? The Rams’ credit cards are already getting maxed out, and all the bake sales and GoFundMes in the world won’t fix it. More CFP and TV bucks might. (Per the auditor, CSU collected $3.2 million for the ’22 fiscal in media rights revenues; CU took home $18.4 million.)

And to top it off...that MWC exit fee.

Just ouch.

 

[Not Sure]

If only somebody had warned CSU that their stadium project was a bad idea.

 

[GoBuffs08]

If only somebody had warned CSU that their stadium project was a bad idea.

I keep waiting for the summer concert schedule to be released.

 

[PAC MAN]

If only somebody had warned CSU that their stadium project was a bad idea.

LOL...reality is that the money wasn't there for a renovation of Hughes Stadium and the cost to renovate to get it up to code wasn't too far off from the cost of building a new stadium. They were facing at least $70M just to fix the utilities alone back then. CSU also sold that land Hughes Stadium was sitting on.

If Folsom Field had something like that $70M fix at that time, we would have had a new stadium on the site already.

 

[ahoelsken]

I’ll be interested to see just how “marquee” these teams and matchups are once you’re baking in numerous losses.

Colorado was a marquee team until we started losing. Now we suck and we’re irrelevant. I’m sure we’ll see the same from teams like Oregon/UCLA/etc

That's why its going to be fascinating to watch the Big 12. This is the one of the current Power conferences that is going to be there for somebody like Coach Prime dominate

 

[LesGrossman]

That's why its going to be fascinating to watch the Big 12. This is the one of the current Power conferences that is going to be there for somebody like Coach Prime dominate

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: B12 feels like REAL CFB… not whatever overproduced sterile NFL-Lite they’re turning the P2 into. I’ll thoroughly enjoy the entertainment and seething hatred of all these border schools

 

[#1 pick]

I'm enjoying the calm this week before things pick up again at the end of this week to Monday given that ACC 8/15 deadline.

Doesn't seem like much is going to happen outside of adding teams for the ACC. FSU doesn't have a home beyond the ACC. The B1G is waiting for only ND at this time. Travel is about to be a nightmare