Does Greg Brown get too much of a free pass?

[buffalofart]

Yeah. It was his first coaching job and he coached the secondary to a #110 ranking out of 120 teams despite having two starting corners who were NFL draft picks. And he had exactly zero DBs verbaled to CU at any time before he was let go. Yeah. I'm really missing him. Let's rip on Brownie, who is so respected in coaching circles that a lot of other coaches teach their DBs by using film of the stuff the guy is running.

Pass defense is not all on the secondary. The lack of pressure on the QB and poor LB play underneath are also factors. Did we ever defend a tight end route across or up the middle? And if Jimmy and Jalil were so badly coached, how did they ever get drafted? How many games worth of injuries were there lost among the DBs? I'll respect your Brownie crush. I don't share it.

 

[Buffnik]

Pass defense is not all on the secondary. The lack of pressure on the QB and poor LB play underneath are also factors. Did we ever defend a tight end route across or up the middle? And if Jimmy and Jalil were so badly coached, how did they ever get drafted? How many games worth of injuries were there lost among the DBs? I'll respect your Brownie crush. I don't share it.

That's fine. From what you posted, it sounds like you really blame Collins' defense scheme for pass defense issues. Why don't we wait and see how things play out this year before judging? We know what Brown inherited. We also know that Ash inherited the #20 pass defense at Cal. Let's see which direction each go.

P.S. I like Ash, I just think he has a long way to go before he can be considered in Brown's league as a DB coach.

 

[Duff Man]

It's hard to tell how good a coach and/or recruiter Ambrose will be eventually. He did have to deal with Hawkins disease while he was here so who knows what he is actually capable of. Brown's recruiting at CU may have suffered from some of the same issue.

I do know that Brown knows how to coach DBs. He has made guys better players at CU, at Arizona, and in the pros. If we are already bitching about Brown being on the staff we have serious need of a life or at least of some real football.

:lol:

I will wait while you explain to me why Greg Brown is highly qualified to be defensive coordinator. You are willing to give Brown a complete pass like the rest of the coaching staff and I really do not understand why he should be treated the same.

 

[MtnBuff]

:lol:

I will wait while you explain to me why Greg Brown is highly qualified to be defensive coordinator.

I didn't say he was highly qualied as a D-coordinator. He does have at least the background of being a co-D coordinator at Arizona, was very involved in the D gameplanning with the Saints and is highly respected in the industry. He is at least as highly qualified to coordinate a D as EB is qualified to be an O-coordinator or in fact JE to be a HC, I don't see you bagging on them.

I get it, you don't like Brown. I don't know if you don't like his dad, have a man-crush on Ash or are just looking for a reason to bitch. If you feel that way you have a right but considering where this program has been recently, the budget we have available, and the make-up of the rest of the staff, I consider Brown to be far from a reason to complain.

As my dad used to say, "Some people would bitch if you hung them with a new rope."

I have yet to see you give one legitimate complaint about Brown that doesn't apply to at least a significant number of other staff members to a greater extent. I also have yet to see you give one name of someone who realistically would have come here that is even in Browns class much less better.

 

[Duff Man]

I do not hate Brown. Not even close. But it seems pretty clear you really like him.

I think there are legitimate concerns to be addressed with his recruiting. It was an open secret he did not put a whole lot of effort into in his last stint here and now he has the DC duties added. I posted the recruits he has brought in and yet you just brush that aside like it is nothing because apparently absolutely no one could have expected to do anything under Hawkins. Can you say cop out? You inexplicably seem to imply that Brown bears no blame for the shaky DB situation we find ourselves in as well.

You want to talk about EB and JE, be my guest, but do not try to change the subject from this thread.

BTW, I am not broken up about losing Ambrose either.

 

[Buffnik]

I don't think BB dislikes Brown. Last year, we argued over Brown leaving and Ash coming in. I thought it would be a wash and what we'd lose in coaching experience we would make up for with energetic recruiting and a different pov to an experienced defensive backfield. (And also that we might benefit from not having outright dissent among the defensive coaches - Brown and Collins didn't exactly work well together.) In hindsight, BB was probably right. We lost more than we gained.

That said, BB has consistently said that he likes Brown as a position coach but not as a recruiter. As a DC, that he's unproven and that with a 1st time HC and a 1st time OC, it would have made more sense to hire an experienced DC.

BB can speak for himself, but that's how I remember the discussions.

FWIW, I think that Brown has the right mental makeup to be a coordinator and think he'll do very well. Helps that he's got so much experience with Tui and Cabral in the defensive meetings, too.

 

[MtnBuff]

I can understand the issues about Brown as a recruiter, he hasn't proven to be a great recruiter. I don't believe he was hired to be a great recruiter, he was hired to be a coach and coordinator and obviously Embree believed that he could be very good at this job or he wouldn't have hired him.

I don't think he is the greatest thing since sliced bread but I have seen him be a very good coach for a number of years. I just think it is ridiculous to start bagging on him before we have even played a game. Lets see how his defenses play and his players develop before getting negative about the guy.

 

[Duff Man]

Fair points Mtn. I am just not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt like I am the rest of the staff, save Cabral (he needs to get better play out of the LBs). We saw what hanging on to Collins did to this program. If it is clear in the first couple years that Brown is not cut out for the job, I hope Embree is ready to make the tough decisions.

And somehow, someway, we need to start bringing in quality DB prospects. I do not care how it gets done, just get it done. Greg Brown's evaluation should be valued, but we should not be signing several sleepers a year either.

 

[Buffnik]

Fair points Mtn. I am just not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt like I am the rest of the staff, save Cabral (he needs to get better play out of the LBs). We saw what hanging on to Collins did to this program. If it is clear in the first couple years that Brown is not cut out for the job, I hope Embree is ready to make the tough decisions.

And somehow, someway, we need to start bringing in quality DB prospects. I do not care how it gets done, just get it done. Greg Brown's evaluation should not be sacred.

When I heard that douche say that he didn't need to change much about the way we went about defensing Mizzou heading into last year's game, I seriously wanted to beat him with a bag of nickels.

 

[White_Rabbit]

When I heard that douche say that he didn't need to change much about the way we went about defensing Mizzou heading into last year's game, I seriously wanted to beat him with a bag of nickels.

Was that even last year? It seemed like it was a couple of years ago, maybe heading into the game following the shutout. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that. How does a team put 50 on your defense and you think that your plan was the least bit effective? That's literally grounds for a psych evaluation.

 

[MtnBuff]

If he isn't getting the job done after a couple of years he should be gone.

I am just not as worried about the recruiting end as you are. Since the staff primarily recruits by area, not position I believe we will get the athletes we need to play DB. Brown will need to give them a good impression when they visit since he is the selling point for DB prospects but I don't see him as the primary recruiter on a lot of them. His qualifications as a former NFL coach and the success he has had with guys recently in the draft will impress the athletes that our "recruiting" coaches bring in.

That said if he isn't getting it done on the field then he should be gone, just like any other coach on the staff. I just have a higher opinion of him than you do.

 

[Buffnik]

Was that even last year? It seemed like it was a couple of years ago, maybe heading into the game following the shutout. I couldn't believe my eyes when I read that. How does a team put 50 on your defense and you think that your plan was the least bit effective? That's literally grounds for a psych evaluation.

You could be right. Or it could be both years. Everything from the Hawkins error runs together like the stream from an overturned port-a-john.

 

[Duff Man]

That is a very fair post Mtn. I hope Brown proves me wrong and my fears are unfounded.

I think your point about recruiting by geography is good too. Kanavis is a bit of a mystery right now, he needs to be a closer on the recruiting trail. Obviously, getting Yuri Wright would go a long way toward rendering this thread as unfounded hysteria.

 

[White_Rabbit]

You could be right. Or it could be both years. Everything from the Hawkins error runs together like the stream from an overturned port-a-john.

:lol3:

I'd be hard pressed to figure out which Hawk era coach I really despised more. Collins.. Brandison.. DJ.. Riddle.. Hawk..

If there's one thing I'm certain of it's that we have a much better staff at this point than during any part of Hawk's tenure.

 

[MtnBuff]

That is a very fair post Mtn. I hope Brown proves me wrong and my fears are unfounded.

I think your point about recruiting by geography is good too. Kanavis is a bit of a mystery right now, he needs to be a closer on the recruiting trail. Obviously, getting Yuri Wright would go a long way toward rendering this thread as unfounded hysteria.

Your point on Kanavis is a good one. I don't think he was hired because of his coaching ability (although he may turn out to be a good one, nobody knows) he was hired to use his contacts and personality in getting kids out of the Houston area. For this team to be successful we have to have talent out of SoCal, Texas, and fill in with Colorado and one other place either NJ or the mid-west. Kanavis has to do the job in Houston, Kennedy has to do it in Dallas.

I would love to see what Brown can do with a talent like Yuri and hope he comes, if he does or not I think we will sign at least a couple of other quality athletes who will be DBs for us in the future. Yuri though could really be something special here.

 

[White_Rabbit]

Kanavis can help out Brown big time if he hauls in Will Jackson. I seriously loved that kids film.

 

[Darth Snow]

good discussion guys. Agreed with the good point on the area recruiting. Hope Brown does a good job closing at least.

 

[SteelCity Buff]

This thread's a good read, thanks to all who've contributed. I understand that the buffs are in a position now where we need a talent boost in a bad way, but it got me to wondering about the makeup of coaching staffs. I don't know to what degree you call Marshall, Brown or Scherer an "x's & o's" coach but that seems to be the perception on AB. Having said that, would you call the makeup of our staff pretty typical?

I realize there are a lot of variables to this question, like facilities and location, but my general impression in following recruiting has been that its typically only the coordinators who have less expected of them in recruiting.

 

[buffaholic]

I'd call it typical. You have some guys (as pointed out above) who are better recruiters than others. Not too many are the best on the recruiting trail and as position coaches or coordinators.

Embree did a great job of putting together the staff IMO. He got a very experienced NFL QB coach who has been an OC to work with EB.

With that said, most of what I read on these boards is "how much better everything is now". Well of course it is. I read the same thing 4 years ago. Let's play some games first. I am cautiously optimistic that we got a great staff to take what we have and make them over-achievers.

But lets be realistic. Kennedy is doing great getting us some WR picks out of TX. He used to get the cream-of-the-crop when he was at UT and a lot of those guys turned out to be over-rated. We need him to be right on all of these guys, and these are guys that aren't as highly rated as the guys he traditionally has signed. We will see and I hope he's got it right.