Not a whole lot of competition at the position this year, but your point remains valid. Grayson's stock is going up and the Broncos were reportedly watching him very intently.
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Forman's Challenge: Bulking up the Buffs
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Not a whole lot of competition at the position this year, but your point remains valid. Grayson's stock is going up and the Broncos were reportedly watching him very intently.
Grayson is better than any pocket QB who has ever played for CU.
Buffs did a good job against him, but that doesn't change reality. Got to give credit where it's due. He's a winner and a talent. Glad to see his back on the way out the college door.
#4 in the nation in passing and led the Rams to the 8th best passing offense (per game yardage) in the country.... Yes, 'Tini, that screams college game manager :rolling_eyes:
opcorn:
Sorry I don't think he's a NFL level QB and I've never been impressed with him.
While playing in the very weak MWC. I've been consistent here, I don't think he's that good.
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Noted. Let it go.
So what you're saying is, that with the lack of depth Forman was wrong to emphasize an "eliminate injuries, while emphasizing conditioning" approach, over a "let all that useless fat, bulky weight stay in place and see what happens" approach?
And you're dead wrong about the end of season wear down. That, if in fact it occurred, was a result of prior years' lack of conditioning that was too hard to overcome in one off season. But I recall most here observing that MM's first squad was remarkably more capable of staying in a game through 4 quarters, than Water Bottle's over-worked and under-trained, two-quarter wonders.
Teh stoopid is strong with your "highly-prejudiced-against-Forman" commentary.
I'm with tini on this; Grayson was not much against decent competition. Sure, he could hit wide-open WRs 10-15 yds. downfield, what game manager QB can't?
Brian Bosworth was a "killer" in post season All Star games too.
slystone
Well-Known Member
So what you're saying is, that with the lack of depth Forman was wrong to emphasize an "eliminate injuries, while emphasizing conditioning" approach, over a "let all that useless fat, bulky weight stay in place and see what happens" approach? wiz..you are mixing/confusing two different themes here..my point about the lack of depth was that the Oline had 2 subs that season..they were worn down not only by forman's cross fit type of training but also by having to take all of the reps in practice vs the 1st, 2nd and 3rd team D front 7s...nothing left in the tank come game day...I don't know if you have kids or coached any sport at any level..but you wear them down day in and day out..guess what...nothing left in the tank come game day...not a tough concept to grasp for most
And you're dead wrong about the end of season wear down. That, if in fact it occurred, was a result of prior years' lack of conditioning that was too hard to overcome in one off season. But I recall most here observing that MM's first squad was remarkably more capable of staying in a game through 4 quarters, than Water Bottle's over-worked and under-trained, two-quarter wonders. again...not to confuse you with facts..look back at MM's comments prior to this year's ASU game...he directly spoke about the ASU contest in 2013 and how the buffs were worn down due to various reasons..he went so far as to say they have to adjust how they work guys during the season...also..a news flash..a team, including OL and DL guys can get into game shape in an 8-12 week period. the condition of the '13 squad had nothing to do with the previous season..again, your lack of knowledge on this basic stuff is astounding
Teh stoopid is strong with your "highly-prejudiced-against-Forman" commentary. I cant quite decipher what you are trying to spew here...
And you're dead wrong about the end of season wear down. That, if in fact it occurred, was a result of prior years' lack of conditioning that was too hard to overcome in one off season. But I recall most here observing that MM's first squad was remarkably more capable of staying in a game through 4 quarters, than Water Bottle's over-worked and under-trained, two-quarter wonders. again...not to confuse you with facts..look back at MM's comments prior to this year's ASU game...he directly spoke about the ASU contest in 2013 and how the buffs were worn down due to various reasons..he went so far as to say they have to adjust how they work guys during the season...also..a news flash..a team, including OL and DL guys can get into game shape in an 8-12 week period. the condition of the '13 squad had nothing to do with the previous season..again, your lack of knowledge on this basic stuff is astounding
Teh stoopid is strong with your "highly-prejudiced-against-Forman" commentary. I cant quite decipher what you are trying to spew here...
Koy Detmer would like to have a word with you.
7th round draft pick Koy Detmer? Grayson projected 2nd-4th.
It's just really difficult to read a post when there is another post in the post that is not quoted
Ok, I have to disagree with you here on three points:
- It's unreasonable to compare Sr. Bowl rosters with that of one college team. Those guys are universally older than any one team's OL unit, so their bodies are more mature and they naturally have more bulk
- Perhaps Jack Harris played at 285, but you constantly repeat the point about Forman pushing players to get down to "280-285". So far as I can tell by the CU depth charts, CU only had 2 lineman on the 2 deep this year at or below 290: Sam Kronshage, a RS Freshman who saw 82 snaps on offense, and Mark Mustoe, who saw 8 snaps on offense. Most of the other OL played at the 295-305 range.
- To use a "one size fits all" mantra about what OL should weigh is asinine. People want to compare us to our peers: look at Oregon, who led the Pac in rushing, offense (scoring and yardage). They have no OL over 310 lbs in their 2-deep, and started 5 guys at or under 300 lbs. Then there's Stanford, a "power rushing team" who starts 3 guys under 300 lbs. and who started one guy in Harbaugh's time there over 300 lbs (DeCastro).
There are probably legitimate criticisms of Forman and his program. Not being an S&C expert nor having any familiarity with his methods, I couldn't tell you what they are. But to focus on some argument (which is likely a straw man, given the above) that he's forcing the OL to play too light is weird.
slystone
Well-Known Member
Denver..i see what you are saying..but one key point is that the "roster"weights are usually taken, depending on the school at the end of may and certainly no later than the end of june to get the roster and program templates to the printer..they don't revisit the weights at all past july 4th...my point..which I will get off of, is that during the '13 season..the OL and most of the DL guys simply were worn down after the first month of the season...most had shed 20-25 lbs from the start of august thru the end of September...harder to do as a 40yr old ! But very easy to do as a 21-22 year old. the other thing that one should consider is that most Ol and Dl guys gain weight during the season as most teams do not do as much running in practice during the season and look to preserve energy and bodies for the games on Saturdays..the '13 season was a [un] perfect storm including no depth and a new 2-4 year master plan in the S and C department.
jobuff
Club Member
Koy would have won the heisman if he was competing against the competition Grayson has in the MWC.
When you demonstrate that you're able to multi-quote, embed a tweet and NSFW hide a portion of your post... that's when we send you the AllBuffs decoder ring and you know you've arrived. :lol:
I think his point is more about veteran linemen who didn't have a RS year and a bench year in front of them to afford being broken down and rebuilt. Those guys needed to be trained for the "now" rather than put into a one size fits all philosophy of team S&C.
Ok, I see what you are saying. Point taken, especially in context of your statements about OL personnel numbers (or lack thereof) for the last 2 years.
The bright side: If this was part of a 2-4 year master plan, then we should start seeing gains next season!
Understood, but I don't know that I could wrap my head around the logistical implementation of how that would work. If we buy that Forman's S&C master plan involves a 3-4 year buildup process, putting veteran OL directly into year 3 or 4 of the plan when Forman came over might not have the intended effects without the base established in year 1 or 2. It seems to me that it would almost necessitate a 3rd, completely separate program for the veteran OL from the last regime. Doesn't seem practical to me. But again, I'm not an S&C guy.
Drink your Ovaltine!
Suck it, Orr!
Ty did.
He didn't say anything about editing.