Forrest, Henley, Mobley, WillJeff, MTM - ALL GONE

[Highlander27]

I'm betting that West's dismissal had nothing to do with his on field ability. In fact, it was despite it. Would you take that bet?

I'd probably agree with you. I think West can play ball, never said he couldn't. I'm disappointed it didn't work out but I trust the coaches on this. These guys are called student-athletes for a reason, so ideally you need to have the whole package and failure to LISTEN or manage your academics is a direct strike against accountability, which probably leaked over into other areas of his preparation. So be it. We'll be fine.

 

[Duff Man]

It's too early to criticize them for anything. We just finished Winter conditioning & Spring Ball. People who didn't buy in are getting run off. You're crying about it asking for them to make potential exceptions for possibly $hitheads because the guy has notched a few tackles in big 12 play. You can't expect them to make chicken **** into chicken salad overnight, they are merely playing with what they got at this point. In the meantime, i'd rather the coaches go into battle with players they trust, who can go to class and line up in the right spot even if you don't think they're worth a ****.

I am fine with Embree making the moves he feels appropriate. But let's call it like it is, the moves today make the DE and WR positions more suspect in terms of depth. I do not expect them to turn it around overnight, but we also need to win games THIS YEAR with the huge senior class. Do you disagree with any of this?

 

[White_Rabbit]

Damn, wasn't expecting that many to be cut. Sucks for MTM and WillJeff, I hope they finish their degrees and excel off the field. West must have had a serious attitude problem or something for them to get rid of him. Our DE depth just took a serious hit there. Not much to say about Griffen other than he maybe wasn't good enough to play P12 ball. Probably a serious reach made by lazy Hawk. Unfortunate for Griffen, though. Hope he transfers and does well somewhere else.

 

[Highlander27]

I am fine with Embree making the moves he feels appropriate. But let's call it like it is, the moves today make the DE and WR positions more suspect in terms of depth. I do not expect them to turn it around overnight, but we also need to win games THIS YEAR with the huge senior class. Do you disagree with any of this?

It's hard to say. Did we lose much when D. Scott walked out the door? Not really. Somebody else just stepped in and took his place, life moved on, we were fine. We lose 14 catches, and 177 yds from Will Jefferson. Hardly Earth-Shattering stats. He wasn't going to be more than a role-player this year anyways. I thought Keenan Canty looked better this Spring than i've ever seen Jefferson look so maybe all he needed was an opportunity. From that departure it opens a spot for Logan Gray and a few of the other young WR's to step up. I think J. Spruce has the opportunity to play at a very young age.

As for Forrest, he was technically playing in front of Nick Kasa per the depth chart. His void moves the former highly rated CO prospect up a notch. Could be good.... could be bad. I don't think we lose much there, but probably gain upside if Kasa can get his career back on track which is a distinct possibility.

Bottom line, neither Forrest or Jefferson were going to light the world on fire this season. We lost some reserves who had garnered some PT under the previous staff. Under the new regime they couldn't cut it for whatever reason. It merely opens the doors for other contributors. I don't think it knocks us off course at either position.

 

[Duff Man]

Bottom line, neither Forrest or Jefferson were going to light the world on fire this season. We lost some reserves who had garnered some PT under the previous staff. Under the new regime they couldn't cut it for whatever reason. It merely opens the doors for other contributors. I don't think it knocks us off course at either position.

I won't argue we are losing all-conference caliber players in West or Jefferson. But I think our margin for error is smaller at both positions now. I hope we can stay healthy or things get interesting (in a bad way) pretty quickly. Let's hope the staff can use this recruiting class to plug some pretty significant depth issues all over the roster.

 

[NashBuff]

Boy won't we be a young team in '12?

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Boy won't we be a young team in '12?

Considering we are approaching something like 30 scholarships available for next recruiting cycle... yes, extremely. Hopefully NH can plug the whole at QB while the blue chip we bring in, in 2012 can develop and learn the offense. It will be interesting. I wouldn't be surprised to see us grab some JUCO guys to kind of even things out some.

 

[SJBuff]

I am fine with Embree making the moves he feels appropriate. But let's call it like it is, the moves today make the DE and WR positions more suspect in terms of depth. I do not expect them to turn it around overnight, but we also need to win games THIS YEAR with the huge senior class. Do you disagree with any of this?

In a way yes. It really comes down to why they were cut.
Have you ever been a part of a team where the team got more productive after a problem child was removed from the situation? I've experienced this first hand where the team did significantly more with less members because one person was actually a distraction instead of a contributor. It was a tough move to make because the "problem child" even looked like a performer on the surface but behind the scenes he was undermining everyone's efforts and it wasn't clear how large his negative impact was until he was removed from the situation. What if that is what is going on here?

I'm not saying that this hypothesis above is correct, I'm just saying that it could be true and in that scenario these players are not adding any depth by staying on the roster, they are just making the team worse (the opposite purpose of depth). Either way, JE is in a much better position to make that kind of a call than we are.

FWIW, I don't believe the guys who got let go are bad kids, but maybe CU is just not a good fit for them anymore.

You wanna make an omelet you gotta break some eggs...

 

[buffsyko]

Listen! Most of you clammored for a change. Shut up!!!

I can't hear you, the 5 years of crow you have stuffed in your mouth is making you hard to understand...

 

[buffsyko]

Christ, enough with the "crying in the beer" BS. Nobody is ranting or raving, just find it odd that those two will jeff and west are gone. Also, you can't expect these freshman to come in and light it up and kasa hasn't done much of anything as of yet.

I love embree's attitude and his style is good and much better than the previous staff. I'm behind him 100% but excuse me if I think losing west and will jeff isn't a good thing, especially depth.

 

[White_Rabbit]

It's hard to say. Did we lose much when D. Scott walked out the door? Not really. Somebody else just stepped in and took his place, life moved on, we were fine. We lose 14 catches, and 177 yds from Will Jefferson. Hardly Earth-Shattering stats. He wasn't going to be more than a role-player this year anyways. I thought Keenan Canty looked better this Spring than i've ever seen Jefferson look so maybe all he needed was an opportunity. From that departure it opens a spot for Logan Gray and a few of the other young WR's to step up. I think J. Spruce has the opportunity to play at a very young age.

As for Forrest, he was technically playing in front of Nick Kasa per the depth chart. His void moves the former highly rated CO prospect up a notch. Could be good.... could be bad. I don't think we lose much there, but probably gain upside if Kasa can get his career back on track which is a distinct possibility.

Bottom line, neither Forrest or Jefferson were going to light the world on fire this season. We lost some reserves who had garnered some PT under the previous staff. Under the new regime they couldn't cut it for whatever reason. It merely opens the doors for other contributors. I don't think it knocks us off course at either position.

I don't think Jefferson was about to conjure up images of Jerry Rice, but West was 2nd(?) on the team in sacks last season. We're going to miss him big time. I'm not writing Kasa off yet because he has had injury issues and Hawk issues, but lets not act like we're adding a 1st round pick on the DL here. He has to prove he's the 5* guy we all thought we were getting a couple of years ago. I see what you're getting at with trusting the coaches, but trusting the coaches burned a lot of people with the last guy.. so excuse us if we don't exactly jump for joy every time Embree makes a decision.

 

[bigbang]

I am shocked by the Will Jeferson cut, didn't see that coming, the rest of the guys on the list we can do without if they didn't buy into the program both on and off the field.

DE- Juda Parker and Nembot will both get a chance to play early to go along with the likes Hartigan, Kasa, Uzo Diribe, Goldberg, Pormeba. I am not too woried about the depth at DE.


TE- We should have the likes of Deehan, Thornton, Slavin, Wood, Fernadez, Bahr. WE have 3 TE that can play.

WR- Here is my only worry, but the situation is not so bad. We should have the likes of Clemons, Richardson, Gray, Canty, Cefalo, Spruce.

 

[White_Rabbit]

I am shocked by the Will Jeferson cut, didn't see that coming, the rest of the guys on the list we can do without if they didn't buy into the program both on and off the field.

DE- Juda Parker and Nembot will both get a chance to play early to go along with the likes Hartigan, Kasa, Uzo Diribe, Goldberg, Pormeba. I am not too woried about the depth at DE.


TE- We should have the likes of Deehan, Thornton, Slavin, Wood, Fernadez, Bahr. WE have 3 TE that can play.

WR- Here is my only worry, but the situation is not so bad. We should have the likes of Clemons, Richardson, Gray, Canty, Cefalo, Spruce.

I'm pretty sure you're downing the kool-aid quite hard these days, but allow me rain on your sunshine.

DE: Here is why you should be ridiculously worried about the depth at DE. Of the 5 people you listed, not counting the incoming freshman, 2 of which are walk-ons. Hartigan is like 215 pounds and a situational pass rusher at best. At this point we can't really call Diribe much more than a pass rusher as well, but at least he has some size on him I think. If you think walk-ons are the ticket to success, allow me to direct you towards the last 5 years under the Hawkins regime. Parker can probably come in and play right away, at least he's going to need to. Nembot has played football for like 1 or 2 years, total. Hopefully they can find a spot for him to contribute right away, because we need him to do so as well.

TE: We have 3 TE that can play? I'll grant you Deehan and Thornton, but Slavin has never seen live game action. The rest of those are either walk-ons, walk-on fullbacks, or a converted OL/FB. I wouldn't exactly call that a position of strength.

WR: Well at least you're worried here, but I'd say the situation is bad. Again, you're relying on unproven young guys. Gray has played WR all of 1 year total. Hopefully he's as good as advertised, because we need him to be very good very quickly. I like Canty, but he's going to need to play quite well to make it seem as though we aren't missing a very good slot receiver from last year. Cefalo is another walk-on and more in the mold of Espinoza than McKnight imo. Spruce looks good, but as others have noted before, it took Richardson half a year to get into the swing of things. To count on Spruce from the get go is asking a lot. You didn't mention them, but Espinoza should be able to help out and Darden has been around for awhile now, it'd be a great time for him to step up and stop getting beaten out for PT by walk-ons.

 

[bigbang]

West didn't exactly have a great year last year. Kasa has the potential to be dominant. Uzo Diribe will be in his 2nd year and ready to take the step. Hartigan is the speed rusher, situational pass rusher. Juda Parker is going to get playing time as a freshman. Nembot could play both DE or DT.

TE- Slavin is good, from what i saw from the spring game, the guy can play. I like the top 3 TE, you can only play 2 at a time anyways.

 

[Mick Ronson]

Boy won't we be a young team in '12?

what, again?......

 

[cu3x]

1. IMO, JE must have felt the rest of the team would not see the cuts as unfair or arbitrary. Too many possible problems if they did.

2. Keeping things in perspective, what did JE do to the kid who damaged those cars and was caught on camera?

 

[Dark Bohner]

2. Keeping things in perspective, what did JE do to the kid who damaged those cars and was caught on camera?

He is suspended for at least this year. His fate is tied more to CU's judicial affairs than Embree at this point.

 

[DBT]

People, including me were concerned because the prior administration lacked discipline, constantly wavered on the standards, was soft and lacked the dedication to win at this level.

Before anything else can happen a climate of high expectations, of sacrifice for the team, of dedication has to be established. Like it or not Embree and staff are doing what they have to do to establish this climate. No different sets of rules for different players, nobody getting favored because they are staff foavorites, no resting on prior accomplishments.

This process isn't going to be easy and isn't going to be comfortable. The coaches will also certainly make some mistakes in the process and we will lose some guys who could have helped us. The problem is though that without this process the needed changes will never happen. Mediocre has become acceptable, losing has become almost comfortable, until this is changed this team will never be able to achieve what we and they want to see.

It took five painful years to get to this point, changing it isn't going to be easy or fast but is needed.

I think what is happening here is pretty similar to what the bball team went through with Bzdelic.

 

[Tractor]

In a way yes. It really comes down to why they were cut.
Have you ever been a part of a team where the team got more productive after a problem child was removed from the situation? I've experienced this first hand where the team did significantly more with less members because one person was actually a distraction instead of a contributor. It was a tough move to make because the "problem child" even looked like a performer on the surface but behind the scenes he was undermining everyone's efforts and it wasn't clear how large his negative impact was until he was removed from the situation. What if that is what is going on here?

I'm not saying that this hypothesis above is correct, I'm just saying that it could be true and in that scenario these players are not adding any depth by staying on the roster, they are just making the team worse (the opposite purpose of depth). Either way, JE is in a much better position to make that kind of a call than we are.

FWIW, I don't believe the guys who got let go are bad kids, but maybe CU is just not a good fit for them anymore.

You wanna make an omelet you gotta break some eggs...

See Nuggets, Denver as a possible example of this.

I also found West and WillJeff cuts to be particularly disappointing. I don't understand them myself. I think they do hurt us at two positions where we need lots of help.

One thing I credit the coaches for is not doing these cuts until after all of spring practice. Everybody got an equal chance to showcase themselves. For whatever reason, JE didn't think these guys could help. I'm hoping this is the last time this happens under his reign, but we wanted this change so here it is.

Keanu Reeves said it best, sometimes you have to shoot a hostage:

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

I bet you that each one of them was told that if they felt that the coaches made a wrong choice, they could walk on in the fall and prove themselves. Just because they didn't get the scholarship back now doesn't mean they cant earn it later. If they really want to be a buff then I am sure they have an opportunity to do so.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Goldberg...Poremba? Seriously?

 

[buffaholic]

I bet you that each one of them was told that if they felt that the coaches made a wrong choice, they could walk on in the fall and prove themselves. Just because they didn't get the scholarship back now doesn't mean they cant earn it later. If they really want to be a buff then I am sure they have an opportunity to do so.

and that softens it how? I'm an out-of-state kid without a dime and now you want me to spend $40,000 to prove you were wrong? WTF?

 

[CUFan]

Goldberg...Poremba? Seriously?

I assume that wasn't serious.

Recruiting gurus: Does this mean we are potentially looking at taking quite a few late signees? Kids that get told to go away from USC, academic risks turned scholars, etc?

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

and that softens it how? I'm an out-of-state kid without a dime and now you want me to spend $40,000 to prove you were wrong? WTF?

you play well in the fall and earn scholarship before tuition is due. Or you compete hard through the season, show that you are a playmaker, that you are are in it for the team, and that you are serious about your academics and get put on during the season. I am pretty sure the second situation is retroactive unless it occurs in January.

Why does it need to be softened anyway? They were not meeting the terms of their contract with the school in one way or another, contract is then void. They didn't hold up their end, the school no longer has to hold up its. These are all one year contracts, Embree decided not to renew the contract with these 5 kids. "Cut" is the wrong term as he did not fire them like the NFL. He simply thought it was not appropriate to renew a contract for another year on 5 kids who underperformed in some aspect. Be it on the field, academically, in the weight room, on campus, off campus, etc. These kids are held to standards, and they have guidelines they have to meet as athletes students and ambassadors of the university. They weren't getting it done somehow.

 

[DBT]

There is way too much speculation here. We just need to trust the powers that be. :smile2:

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Welcome to big boy football.

Leapfroggers need not apply.

 

[buffaholic]

It doesn't have to be softened, but you were trying to do that with your above statement regarding trying out again in the fall.

You suggested the bet, and I will take it 7 days a week. They aren't invited back to prove the coaches wrong. They are gone.

 

[Duff Man]

Kasa has the potential to be dominant.

Based on what?

 

[buffaholic]

Welcome to big boy football.

Leapfroggers need not apply.

This isn't intramurals brother....

 

[buffaholic]

Based on what?

His Rivals ranking coming out of High School!

Kasa may be on offense next year....