Games thread- MEN'S BBall opens Big 12 play hosting #3 Iowa St. (Monday, 12/30/24; 7:00 PM; CBS Sports Net)

[RumblinBuff]

The idea that simply waiving a "new coach" wand at the program, without increasing the amount of money or institutional support, will somehow get better results than what we've had is how the damn football program got into 20 years of hell.

Gonzaga, Marquette, ISU, Florida... you've named 4 programs who have thrown massive investments at their programs. They've been able to do that, either because they are the only games at their schools, or they have SEC funding. We are not those schools.

Ffs.

 

[Ruckus]

Take a look at the top 25. We can't aspire to be "giants" like Gonzaga, Marquette, Iowa State, or Florida? NIL money's certainly a part of their success, but players also base their decisions on the head coach, especially the ones who know the big money is headed their way eventually. I've always viewed Boyle as kind of an Old School guy, and now he's on his 15th year. CU has never, ever gone after a high profile basketball hire. Just maybe we start there?

So current top 25 means top level program. Ok, then Tad has gotten us there a few times. And holy **** at that list of schools you think we could aspire to be. Sure, sounds great, but not reality. You think we could hire a high profile coach? Probably haven’t because we can’t. Come to CU, Shaka!

 

[Buffnik]

Yep. Thinking about all the programs in the current Power Five conferences, there aren't many (any?) I can think of which have a lower mix of tradition/prestige, financial resources, fan/booster passion, natural recruiting grounds, and facilities.

 

[Bisonic]

Y'all make it sound like the blue blood basketball programs have been that way since dinosaurs roamed the earth. Not the case - most became that way because a coach exceed middling expectations, stayed there, started bringing in top recruits. Their AD saw the success, excitement, TV revenues, and started throwing money at it. I cannot think of a single example of a school that threw money at the program before they had a coach worthy of it. The money follows success; it does not precede it. If we're gonna spend money, spend it on a promising coach, a proven recruiter. The money will follow because only then can the AD justify - and argue for - diverting scarce resources to this indoor winter sport.

 

[buffs233]

Y'all make it sound like the blue blood basketball programs have been that way since dinosaurs roamed the earth. Not the case - most became that way because a coach exceed middling expectations, stayed there, started bringing in top recruits. Their AD saw the success, excitement, TV revenues, and started throwing money at it. I cannot think of a single example of a school that threw money at the program before they had a coach worthy of it. The money follows success; it does not precede it. If we're gonna spend money, spend it on a promising coach, a proven recruiter. The money will follow because only then can the AD justify - and argue for - diverting scarce resources to this indoor winter sport.

Also, similar to Prime, a new basketball coach will probably have a lot of leverage to get additional resources invested in the basketball program. I am still absolutely perplexed Tad came back this year, especially with such a mediocre incoming recruiting class, knowing he was headed into the brutal Big 12.

I think RG is a poor and lazy AD, who will ignore basketball if he can. A new basketball coach will not accept the job without proof the AD/University will invest more meaningfully in the program.

 

[Bisonic]

Also, similar to Prime, a new basketball coach will probably have a lot of leverage to get additional resources invested in the basketball program. I am still absolutely perplexed Tad came back this year, especially with such a mediocre incoming recruiting class, knowing he was headed into the brutal Big 12.

I think RG is a poor and lazy AD, who will ignore basketball if he can. A new basketball coach will not accept the job without proof the AD/University will invest more meaningfully in the program.

I'm hopeful Todd Saliman won't stand for such mediocrity for long. I'm also hopeful he views Boyle's recent comments as a sign that this has gone on too long.

“(Today's attendance, fueled by the football team events) was a step in the right direction. This was a great day to honor the football team and Travis and Shedeur. Had no problem with that at all.”

Really Tad? You scheduled BELLARMINE for your last tune-up before conference play. If not for the football stuff, you'd have been lucky if 800 people showed up.

 

[Darth Snow]

Feeling boomerish levels of self awareness itt

 

[torero]

Aspiring to be Florida, which is the only school in the last 40 years (maybe longer), outside of maybe of Ohio State and Michigan, that has been elite at both basketball and football at the same time is a laudable goal. It’s also completely unrealistic and insane. Gonzaga and Marquette throw EVERYTHING into basketball.

 

[Buffnik]

Feeling boomerish levels of self awareness itt

I'm waiting to hear what coaches would, if hired, have the impact of turning CU into a Top 20 program, which P5 programs have a mix of variables that put it at a natural level at or below CU, or even examples of places which have ascended based on a coach rather than it being a university commitment to hoops which dovetailed with hiring the right coach.

 

[buffs233]

Feeling boomerish levels of self awareness itt

you're right. Tad is the best basketball coach CU will ever hire under any circumstances, and nothing can or ever will change for the positive for the basketball program without Tad

Of course, neither you nor anyone else, foresaw the hiring Prime and going from the worst college football team in the nation to at least 9 wins in two years. And basketball is far easier to improve than football due to needing only 3-4 high level players.

If the impossibly negative view of the basketball program is accurate, why buy tickets or attend games?

 

[Scotch]

If CU wanted to they'd find more money to fund a higher level of hoops. The powers that be could make it happen. In general the school is apathetic to success in athletics. Is what it is.

 

[RumblinBuff]

Am I going to need to explain scheduling again for everyone?

We went through 3 rounds of "well, because of the BigXII schedule, and the roster turnover, Tad needs to schedule light to build wins for a shot at the post season. When we get to his 3rd and 4th years in his roster sequences, that's when he schedules heavy." back in August. I'm happy to go through it again for the remedial class, if needed.

 

[ahoelsken]

I've been saying for years to everyone I know for whom it may be relevant... CU basketball is the best entertainment value in the greater Boulder area. Hell... in the Boulder-Denver Metro area. $25 tickets and free parking!

I agree the non-conf home schedule sucked and that's on HCTB and the CUAD. Nik, I think there's a distinction to be made between "scheduling interesting opponents" and "marketing the opponent ". It's tough for any team not named Duke to draw well for body bag games -- schools like Wisconsin, Carolina and Virginia have half-empty arenas for those.

I agree with Boyle and Nik that the local base does not support the team well. Colorado is not an area where college sports are popular -- these fans like their pro teams far more and I honestly don't know what it would take to inject a level of interest for the hoops team comparable to what Sanders has done for football.

I also hope that getting away from the Pac12 network boosts exposure and popularity.

Last, I agree with the comment about the core hoops fans being there. I'd advocate for CU to play 1-2 road-trippable D1 away games every year, rotate between DU, UNC, AFA, Wyoming, Regis, etc . I'd certainly go and I think playing a game every year in Denver would help market the team.

I get the OOC, and I'm sure the staff was thinking they'd get big crowds for nights like Monday. If you're in town and free, get tickets and go. I got my dad tickets for Christmas, and he's excited for it.

The question I'd have with OOC scheduling is this-what's the field of the MTE we're involved in look like? If it looks like this year's Maui........I'm fine with CSU and a cupcake parade. If it looks more like Myrtle Beach or Daytona (especially with the on campus game with that deal) the last couple years, go play somebody Nebraska or an Oklahoma OOC.

 

[Buffnik]

Prior to Chauncey, CU went over 25 years without a single 20 win season. Ricardo would go on to notch 3 of them in his 12 seasons. Then Bzdelik coached here 3 years without a winning season. Tad's won 20 in 10 of his 14 seasons after taking over from Bz and only had 1 losing season. Tad is not the problem here.

 

[Chautauqua]

you're right. Tad is the best basketball coach CU will ever hire under any circumstances, and nothing can or ever will change for the positive for the basketball program without Tad

Of course, neither you nor anyone else, foresaw the hiring Prime and going from the worst college football team in the nation to at least 9 wins in two years. And basketball is far easier to improve than football due to needing only 3-4 high level players.

If the impossibly negative view of the basketball program is accurate, why buy tickets or attend games?

Tad isn't Karl Dorrell. CU basketball isn't the worst team in the nation.

I love what is happening with the football team but last year's basketball team was arguably more successful than this year's football team:
2024 Football: 9-3 + Alamo Bowl + Travis's Heisman (very awesome!)
2024 Basketball: 26-11 (program record for wins), played in PAC-12 conference championship, 2 wins in the NCAA tournament, 3 NBA draft picks

I have a positive view of the CU basketball program, but make no mistake this is Tad's program. Why not take the money that you would put into hiring a likely inferior coach and reinvest in Tad's program for the few remaining years he's willing to give us? Last year we let Tennessee outbid us for Dalton Knecht, a player in our backyard. He wanted to come to play for Tad and Tennessee offered a bigger bag. Imagine last year's team with Dalton Knecht.

Are there better basketball coaches than Tad? Honestly not many, but of course there are. Are any going to want to coach CU if they're given the same resources as Tad, not a chance.

To poke some holes in my own argument Tad has a couple of things going against him.

He's overly loyal to Colorado basketball prospects. As someone in the state of Colorado who loves basketball I love Tad for this. But taking the best CO prospect every year, when he could convince more talented out of state players to play for CU provides ammunition to the haters that say he can't recruit.

Even I'm skeptical Tad can transition to the transfer portal/NIL era. Tad is an "elite" development coach. The number of CU players in the NBA is a testament to this. But let's say we give Tad a BIG 12 average NIL budget. Would he be willing to turnover the roster, Coach Prime style? I'm not sure and I don't think he will ever get the resources to find out.

I appreciate the haters in this thread for forcing me to rant. I've enjoyed the Tad Boyle era of basketball immensely and if it weren't for the frustrating comments I wouldn't force myself to tell a half dozen 35 year olds how much I've admired Tad for making CU basketball respectable.

 

[Buffnik]

Tad isn't Karl Dorrell. CU basketball isn't the worst team in the nation.

I love what is happening with the football team but last year's basketball team was arguably more successful than this year's football team:
2024 Football: 9-3 + Alamo Bowl + Travis's Heisman (very awesome!)
2024 Basketball: 26-11 (program record for wins), played in PAC-12 conference championship, 2 wins in the NCAA tournament, 3 NBA draft picks

I have a positive view of the CU basketball program, but make no mistake this is Tad's program. Why not take the money that you would put into hiring a likely inferior coach and reinvest in Tad's program for the few remaining years he's willing to give us? Last year we let Tennessee outbid us for Dalton Knecht, a player in our backyard. He wanted to come to play for Tad and Tennessee offered a bigger bag. Imagine last year's team with Dalton Knecht.

Are there better basketball coaches than Tad? Honestly not many, but of course there are. Are any going to want to coach CU if they're given the same resources as Tad, not a chance.

To poke some holes in my own argument Tad has a couple of things going against him.

He's overly loyal to Colorado basketball prospects. As someone in the state of Colorado who loves basketball I love Tad for this. But taking the best CO prospect every year, when he could convince more talented out of state players to play for CU provides ammunition to the haters that say he can't recruit.

Even I'm skeptical Tad can transition to the transfer portal/NIL era. Tad is an "elite" development coach. The number of CU players in the NBA is a testament to this. But let's say we give Tad a BIG 12 average NIL budget. Would he be willing to turnover the roster, Coach Prime style? I'm not sure and I don't think he will ever get the resources to find out.

Honestly I appreciate the haters in this thread for forcing me to rant. I've enjoyed the Tad Boyle era of basketball immensely and if it weren't for the frustrating comments I wouldn't force myself to tell a half dozen 35 year olds how much I've admired Tad for making CU basketball respectable.

I don't think that Tad needs NIL to the level of major roster turnover every year. What he needs is the resources to keep guys from transferring, enough juice to have a few top 100 recruits in his program, and then the war chest to win a priority transfer when needed. He doesn't currently have that.

 

[Chautauqua]

I don't think that Tad needs NIL to the level of major roster turnover every year. What he needs is the resources to keep guys from transferring, enough juice to have a few top 100 recruits in his program, and then the war chest to win a priority transfer when needed. He doesn't currently have that.

I like the idea of a defensive NIL budget if it allows Tad to run the program the way he wants. My guess is that requires an increase above the current levels. Somehow Tad was able to keep the 2024 team together, even if it stings to lose Knecht a player we likely would've gotten pre-NIL era.

 

[ahoelsken]

you're right. Tad is the best basketball coach CU will ever hire under any circumstances, and nothing can or ever will change for the positive for the basketball program without Tad

Of course, neither you nor anyone else, foresaw the hiring Prime and going from the worst college football team in the nation to at least 9 wins in two years. And basketball is far easier to improve than football due to needing only 3-4 high level players.

If the impossibly negative view of the basketball program is accurate, why buy tickets or attend games?

Two things-One, the comparison to the football program doesn't work here, and this is why. Prime was a unicorn of a candidate. That was an easy room to read for RG-go see if he's interested and make sure he's going to have what he needs to be successful. A hypothetical basketball search wouldn't work that way. If we dumped Tad, we're looking at hiring somebody like Travis DeCuire from Montana. Meh.

What I'd encourage most of you guys to do is this-change your mindset with this team. Unlike Tad teams of years past, this group has an OOC win that will matter. UConn may not win another national championship, but they've beaten Baylor, Texas, and Gonzaga since Maui. This group also didn't stub their toe in the OOC-the two losses they do have are quad 1 and will likely stay that way. Looking at the conference schedule really quickly.......all we have left are quad 1 and 2 games. There's no Cal in this league, and five teams in this week's top 25 are going to visit the CUEC during the conference schedule (Iowa State, Baylor, Houston, Kansas, and Cincinnati). If this team goes 7-13 or 8-12 in conference play, they're going to be in the bubble talk come March, and that's a hell of an accomplishment for what we all thought would be one of the worst teams of the Tad era. ****ing get to a game-my schedule is going to be off the wall the minute the high school season resumes after New Years, so I'm taking my dad Monday night. If I can pull it off, none of you have an excuse if you're local.

 

[Buffsbball]

This conversation after sitting 9-2 and beating the two time defending national champions on a neutral court after most of our fan base expected a 5-5 start to the year is actually absurd..ignorance at its finest.

Think this might be one of Tads best coaching jobs.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Prior to Chauncey, CU went over 25 years without a single 20 win season. Ricardo would go on to notch 3 of them in his 12 seasons. Then Bzdelik coached here 3 years without a winning season. Tad's won 20 in 10 of his 14 seasons after taking over from Bz and only had 1 losing season. Tad is not the problem here.

Sleeping giant if you ask me.

 

[Buffalo Brad]

There are massive levels of lack of understanding in this thread and abundant levels of Idotcy. Anyone thinking Tad is an issue or putting another name in that chair would change anything about the program falls into those groups. The AD and one small shoe wearing AD needs to wake up and find ways to invest into the program.

To think it is more than that, as has been stated by @Buffnik and others, is just plain fairytales and unicorn spotting

 

[Darth Snow]

you're right. Tad is the best basketball coach CU will ever hire under any circumstances, and nothing can or ever will change for the positive for the basketball program without Tad

Of course, neither you nor anyone else, foresaw the hiring Prime and going from the worst college football team in the nation to at least 9 wins in two years. And basketball is far easier to improve than football due to needing only 3-4 high level players.

If the impossibly negative view of the basketball program is accurate, why buy tickets or attend games?

And my last post is proven more right

 

[buffs233]

I don't think that Tad needs NIL to the level of major roster turnover every year. What he needs is the resources to keep guys from transferring, enough juice to have a few top 100 recruits in his program, and then the war chest to win a priority transfer when needed. He doesn't currently have that.

I was told directly by people who run the 5430 Collective that Tad has a mid-tier competitive NIL program in the Big 12. Problem is Tad does not like NIL and back-end loads a significant portion of $$ until after a player graduates. Many current players are not interested in that model, so transfer or won’t come in the first place.

Yet, the prevailing narrative continues that Tad has no NIL $, which means he gets a complete pass and the blame is shifted to CU boosters, by posters who likely don’t contribute a dime.

 

[Darth Snow]

I was told directly by people who run the 5430 Collective that Tad has a mid-tier competitive NIL program in the Big 12. Problem is Tad does not like NIL and back-end loads a significant portion of $$ until after a player graduates. Many current players are not interested in that model, so transfer or won’t come in the first place.

Yet, the prevailing narrative continues that Tad has no NIL $, which means he gets a complete pass and the blame is shifted to CU boosters, by posters who likely don’t contribute a dime.

I'm gonna need someone with a weee bit more credibility

 

[Buffnik]

I was told directly by people who run the 5430 Collective that Tad has a mid-tier competitive NIL program in the Big 12. Problem is Tad does not like NIL and back-end loads a significant portion of $$ until after a player graduates. Many current players are not interested in that model, so transfer or won’t come in the first place.

Yet, the prevailing narrative continues that Tad has no NIL $, which means he gets a complete pass and the blame is shifted to CU boosters, by posters who likely don’t contribute a dime.

Your sources claim that CU is between 6th and 11th in the Big 12 in NIL funds available to the MBB program?

Fair enough. I have heard a very different story.

 

[jumped ship]

NIL and AD investment is one thing but bisonic and buffs233 need to get over the delusion that people are gonna drive to the CEC en masse in the winter on a weeknight from Denver or even Longmont

I live in Denver, watch most games on tv, but haven’t been to a game in 3 years. it’s also hard for me to rally casual friends to go. Boulder just isn’t a bball town and there’s too much other **** you can do in Denver. this ain’t ****ing Ames or Spokane

I’ve given money and appreciate Tad running a good program and always putting on solid team on the court. seeking marginal improvement through a new coach risks losing both of those things

 

[jumped ship]

that being said, I was a season ticket holder the year we beat KU and a lot of games were pretty packed…that is when the basketball specific C-Unit still existed…imagine that

 

[Buffnik]

that being said, I was a season ticket holder the year we beat KU and a lot of games were pretty packed…that is when the basketball specific C-Unit still existed…imagine that

That's the thing. If you can get at least a thousand students setting an atmosphere, a lot more people show up because it's so much fun. Arena's only dead when the student section is dead.

 

[Tony G.]

That's the thing. If you can get at least a thousand students setting an atmosphere, a lot more people show up because it's so much fun. Arena's only dead when the student section is dead.

Students are fighting to get Football tickets. Why not put togther a promotion this year where 1000 students are guaranteed football tickets if they go to 90%+ basketball game. It doesn't cost a dime, but I guarantee it would drive attrendance.

 

[buffs233]

Students are fighting to get Football tickets. Why not put togther a promotion this year where 1000 students are guaranteed football tickets if they go to 90%+ basketball game. It doesn't cost a dime, but I guarantee it would drive attrendance.

Because the AD is too lazy to do so.