WWCD
Well-Known Member
Lots of standing around on offense.
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Games thread- (RV) MEN'S bball on the road @ Washington (Wed.,1/24, 9:00 PM MT; ESPNU) WSU (Sat., 3:00 PM; Pac 12) & Utah (Sat., 2/3, 3:00 PM; Pac 12)
- Thread starter AztecBuff
- Start date
Lots of standing around on offense.
jumped ship
Well-Known Member
we’ll win at utah. book it
Are we bringing a different team?
I see 18-22 year olds playing away from home. Effort looks different for different guys.
TDS does get tentative at times, on both ends, but I don't categorize that as lack of effort or completely not caring. At times, that is preferable to what we see from guys like Hadley and Lampkin who will kind of put their head down and burrow their way into a turnover or foul. Hammond is similar to TDS where they may get tentative and if get caught between two decisions.
That's all just part of really young ball players, for my money, I'd love to have a roster full of KJs, Kins, and Soencer's who play under control, but aggressive, and decisively 95% of the time. Reality is, 90%+ of all college players are going to fall more into either the TDS/Hammond mold where they get tentative at times or the Hadley/Lampkin mold where they get very sloppy at times but always appear to be making aggressive plays.
The one really frustrating play he made was dropping a pass in the lane the possession after he got sealed off on defense and didn't get the backside help from KJ that he wanted.
The other pay that stood out from him was a long defensive rebound where he hustled accross the lane and beat one of the Wazzu players to the ball who had started out about 10' closer to the ball than TDS.
seattlebuff
Well-Known Member
When the shots aren’t falling, this team will usually struggle because we just don’t play lock down defense and have no rim protector. Witness the little (freshman!) PG shredding us over and over.
Lampkin shoots 70% FTs but refuses to take wide open looks they give him at the top of the key. I’d like to see him take a couple of those to maybe draw out the shot blockers underneath for penetrators.
Lampkin shoots 70% FTs but refuses to take wide open looks they give him at the top of the key. I’d like to see him take a couple of those to maybe draw out the shot blockers underneath for penetrators.
I'll take that bet.
False bravado. Good win at Washington, but CU is 3-14 on the road over the last two years.
Terrible coaching against the zone
No adjustments
Eddie and Hads were put in a position to make all the passing decisions while Cody and Tristan stood outside
Why were they not put in that mid-block zone buster role?
Last 2 min had the ball in the wrong hands and then Tad rips them for a defensive breakdown
Not championship coaching at all
The only time we tried a true middle of the zone player was Diop, who panicked any time he got the ball.
Guess WSU was desperate
Lightning
Well-Known Member
Agree it seemed to make sense to put TDS or Cody in the middle. We better appreciate KJ while have him. Cody..no baskets and got beat on D several times. Aberration?? WSU has been darn good the last 5-6 games. Washington burying Utah now. Lots of parity, road wins so valuable.
Teams are gonna let Eddie beat us, you notice how they let him have the ball and stick to the others like glue. TDS or Cody should have been in the middle
Birch1
Well-Known Member
He's not. He's the MOST desirable. If you can't see potential, I don't know what to tell you. Also, Tad didn't do him any favors with that zone offense. Yuck.
jumped ship
Well-Known Member
if my posts are drawing ire from you or zandi, I count that as a w
da lama is just sensationalist but overall understands how college bball works
Exactly. It's become a trend in conference play for teams to let Eddie do his thing and focus on stopping the others. It's a good strategy and is paying off 2/3 of time I would guess.
Putting Cody in the high post yesterday would've have killed WSU. Tad knows he's gonna get zone at some point in certain games, yet we just look slow and confused a lot of the time. And this is not a new thing.
Yep. WSU earned a win. CU earned a loss. They played better, more focused, and more aggressive basketball than we did that day. If our Buffs had played as well as Wazzu, I believe we get that win.
That was an inexcusable loss and it was 100% due to coaching.
The reason people say the 2-3 zone is dead is because there is known solution to beat it.
On offense you need to feed the ball into the high post at a position that is behind the 2 and above the 3. That player MUST be able to do three things from that position. Face the basket and hit a free throw line jumper, drive to the hoop if the center comes up, and reverse pivot and kick to the three point line if help comes to trap.
The positioning is key because the top two can't see the ball and the man in their zone at the same time.
Eddie Lampkin cannot run high post against a 2-3 zone.
He can't hit the shot but the worst thing that he did (this is on coaching) is cede position until he was out near the three point line. From that position, no other players can be a factor and you need to once again feed it to the high post.
It took Tad thirty minutes of game play before he subbed Eddie out, put Hadley at the high post, and we miraculously made a furious comeback.
We are better than them but the players weren't put in a position to succeed by the coaches. I have no idea why the adjustment took thirty minutes since this should have been diagnosed and resolved immediately.
The reason people say the 2-3 zone is dead is because there is known solution to beat it.
On offense you need to feed the ball into the high post at a position that is behind the 2 and above the 3. That player MUST be able to do three things from that position. Face the basket and hit a free throw line jumper, drive to the hoop if the center comes up, and reverse pivot and kick to the three point line if help comes to trap.
The positioning is key because the top two can't see the ball and the man in their zone at the same time.
Eddie Lampkin cannot run high post against a 2-3 zone.
He can't hit the shot but the worst thing that he did (this is on coaching) is cede position until he was out near the three point line. From that position, no other players can be a factor and you need to once again feed it to the high post.
It took Tad thirty minutes of game play before he subbed Eddie out, put Hadley at the high post, and we miraculously made a furious comeback.
We are better than them but the players weren't put in a position to succeed by the coaches. I have no idea why the adjustment took thirty minutes since this should have been diagnosed and resolved immediately.
Great post.
I was wondering why we didn't see TDS flashing to high post. He's been great at it in the past. You give up your biggest 3pt threat, but we have a bunch of guys over 35% you trust to knock down a rhythm jumper off the pass.
The other thing I love against 2-3 is the stuff Danny Hurley runs (which also works great against man). High post with 2 baseline runner who work with the high post guy to do a bunch of screening, rolling, back cuts and seals off their action.
Anyway, there are better ways than what we do to attack zone while working with the skill sets of the players on the court. I think a big part of what makes us an unreliable offense against zone is that we don't play it much on D so we don't practice against it much.
Preach
Tad has THREE NBA players on this team, and some nice role players, and we had to watch Eddie Lampkin (A nice guy and a nice player that will never sniff the NBA) touch the ball all game long in a position that requires the skills (pivot, mid-range, vision, passing) that TDS and Cody have, and you could tell that it was the PLAN to put Eddie in that spot, literally the practiced, film room, planning session plan to use Eddie in that role and it bombed terribly. Then Tad yelled at the guys like it was their energy or their fault, and that was annoying.
Some coaches are developers and some are killers
His takeaway was that second-chance points and poor shooting inside the 3-point line were the problems
The reason we shot poorly inside the 3-point line was that we could not get inside their zone, the best shooters were in the worst places, Eddie was inconsistent around the basket, and our plan was bad. We are going to see most teams throw the zone at us moving forward, might even see it against Utah.
I like Tad, he is a good man to be the Colorado coach, but he has to move away from the coach speak, it is always just on the player's talk. If and when he puts a rock-solid plan together for his teams to start and finish a game and the players do not execute, then be critical of the players, but his game plans, timeout usage, and down-the-stretch plans are not good enough to be a tournament team, despite the good level of talent he has brought to Boulder. He has been great for the 80% of his job, but can he master the final 20%? I am pulling for him and the boys, but just not sure it will happen.
I think TDS is the best choice for the high post position but we could have run Cody, Hadley, or Luke there and it would have been fine.
To your second point: I oversimplified my third requirement of the high post. He doesn't have to kick to the three point line if you are running action to put the outside defenders of the 3 in a predicament. Eddie could have remained in the game and traversed between dunker's spots where he can pick the defender to open the corner or conversely establish position on the inside for dunks and layups. There are a lot of different schemes that you can use against the 2-3 but it is predicated on that initial point of getting the ball to the high post and the other four offensive players understanding how to position themselves collectively to create an open shot.
The other thing that has me hot on this is that Tad and co already learned this lesson in previous seasons. We used to have zone run against us all the time because we couldn't/wouldn't run a scheme to beat it. We then figured out how to beat it and it hasn't been an issue for multiple seasons.
I think we have top 16 talent and when you are that good a final four run is a possibility. It is frustrating to see such a clearable hurdle cause us to stumble. The level of coaching required in the tournament is greatly increased and you don't have much time to figure out what your opponents want to do and how to counter them.
I think we have top 16 talent and when you are that good a final four run is a possibility. It is frustrating to see such a clearable hurdle cause us to stumble. The level of coaching required in the tournament is greatly increased and you don't have much time to figure out what your opponents want to do and how to counter them.
I am still not sure what the 5-Out Offense really is for this team? All I see is a high weave handoff game, then KJ or Cody go 1 on 1, or in the zone it goes to Eddie and stalls and then we panic to find a shot or a drive.
There should just be a 3-Out offense with KJ, TDS, and Cody, when they are on the floor, with Hadley and Eddie setting screens, rolling to open spots, like the dunker spot or corner, and we should have a handful of really strong plays running for those 3 and just jump all over teams.
We've had more layups from back cuts this season than all prior seasons put together.
Yeah! Bring back 1985! We'll post a C on one block and a PF on the other. SG on the weakside perimeter with SF on the strong side. PG up top directing.
Or we could continue with this season's new 4- or 5-out motion offense that has delivered the nation's #22 O on KenPom.
If Charles Oakley has eligibility left, I'd be willing to consider this.
I love the back cuts, but can you explain to me how you all see the 5-out offense working against the Zone when it is stale with no real motion and Eddie constantly being the High Post instead of the moving in and out? It feels like we face a Zone with intentional matchups emphasized on KJ, TDS, and Cody, and if the touches are increased for Eddie and Hadley, then one of them has to go off. Hadley did and we won.