Good article in the Post today about High School sports in Colorado

[dio]

http://www.denverpost.com/preps/ci_19465830

High school sports, once viewed as a bastion of wholesomeness, is being transformed into a cutthroat business at the highest levels of play, with teenage athletes the prized assets.

Colorado private schools — notably upstart Valor Christian, in addition to Regis Jesuit and football power Mullen — have catapulted to recent prominence by capitalizing on their ability to attract top athletes from around metro Denver.

Read more:Private schools defining prep sports' shift in power - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/preps/ci_19465830#ixzz1fa4e35NV
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse​

I know we have a thread on this stuff floating around, but I couldn't find it.​

 

[aik]

One thing that always struck me after moving here was that the private schools were allowed in the same state playoffs as the public, neighborhood schools. Is there simply not enough population in the state to mandate separate governing bodies? I always thought Mullen and Valor and their ilk should have asterisks put on their championships because they could recruit and others could not.

 

[96 Buff]

There is no such thing as a good Post article.

 

[CUBUFF80]

Logan was way ahead of the curve recruiting kids to play at Chatfield and A-West before he got to Mullen.

 

[kalbuff]

There is no such thing as a good Post article.

That is not true.

And it bears noting that when I was in high school in Denver, the Catholic schools DID have their own league. This is the way I understand it in most big cities as well although God knows things have changed. In the old days the Catholic schools would get pummeled by public schools. In Chicago and Philly, however, that was flip flopped. That's the reason Notre Dame was so good decades ago because the Catholic kids went there and played football and they were often the best players. Now the Catholic kids go to Florida State and have a good time.

 

[BlackNGold]

One thing that always struck me after moving here was that the private schools were allowed in the same state playoffs as the public, neighborhood schools. Is there simply not enough population in the state to mandate separate governing bodies? I always thought Mullen and Valor and their ilk should have asterisks put on their championships because they could recruit and others could not.

I think you are way off on that. Why shouldn't the private schools be able to be in the state playoffs....the parents of those kids pay school taxes just like everyone else. With Colorado's open enrollment policies there really are no neighborhood schools anymore. Look at Lendale White going to Chatfield...he went from one public school to another.

 

[BuffUp]

being from texas - I agree with how ****ed up high school sports are here in Colorado... basically a private school is like a club team playing against kids at a school that might not make a team at another school. This crap of schools playing up or down in certain sports needs to stop also - CHSAA needs to make schools play in the div./conf. depending on student count and that is that. There are to many schools playing up or down to pad state championships

 

[KingPants]

I think you are way off on that. Why shouldn't the private schools be able to be in the state playoffs....the parents of those kids pay school taxes just like everyone else. With Colorado's open enrollment policies there really are no neighborhood schools anymore. Look at Lendale White going to Chatfield...he went from one public school to another.

That's not really the same. He went cross district. He was at South HS in the DPS, then went to Chatfield. He had to prove he lived in the chatfield district (or move in). You can open enroll within most districts, but you can't just cross districts because you want to. (Although i am sure that there was recruiting going on there by Logan, as he also got the QB who ended up at KSU to go to chatfield at the same time).

 

[dio]

Didn't they change the rules after Logan's stint at Chatfield?

 

[Tempe_Buff]

http://www.denverpost.com/preps/ci_19471426

New article today. Kind of the same stuff but mostly about just Valor.

Honestly if I was a coach or athletic director at any school, I would refuse to play them. It's obvious they are recruiting players from all over Colorado and then paying for their tuition. How does a school in 4 years have 9 CHSAA violations? They just say their spreading the word of God and winning games for Jesus.

Valor is independent, no one has to play them. Get every school to just refuse to play. Or do what Littleton did and just forfeit on game day.

 

[sackman]

Slightly off topic, but I'll chime in based on my own experiences. At BHS, the football team stinks. There's no other way to put it. They *might* get a solid player like Ty Littlehales or Will Pericak once every 3-4 years. They have a running back named Demetrius Kennedy who is something special now. But the rest of the team is terrible. The high schools in Boulder are steadily shrinking. Fewer and fewer people can both afford to have kids and live in Boulder. The demographics of Boulder are changing rapidly. So having Boulder try to put a respectable football team on the field is asking a bit much. They can field smaller teams, like basketball, swimming, wrestling, etc. But football is an entirely different animal. I've said for years that BHS and FHS should be allowed to be in the same district with the other schools in Boulder County (Monarch, Centaurus, Longmont, Skyline, Niwot, Silver Creek). I even spoke with the BHS principal about it - and he seemed to have no idea that there were other schools outside of Boulder and Fairview in Boulder County (sigh).

Long story short - Colorado High School sports, and football in particular, is totally messed up. It's not governed well, and that's why we're in the situation we're in.

 

[BlackNGold]

That's not really the same. He went cross district. He was at South HS in the DPS, then went to Chatfield. He had to prove he lived in the chatfield district (or move in). You can open enroll within most districts, but you can't just cross districts because you want to. (Although i am sure that there was recruiting going on there by Logan, as he also got the QB who ended up at KSU to go to chatfield at the same time).

You need to read up on Colorado Open Enrollment. It is no different, you can enroll in another district through open enrollment with no requirement of you living within the district. Lendale White commuted every day. So enlighten me on how it is different.

 

[BlackNGold]

Slightly off topic, but I'll chime in based on my own experiences. At BHS, the football team stinks. There's no other way to put it. They *might* get a solid player like Ty Littlehales or Will Pericak once every 3-4 years. They have a running back named Demetrius Kennedy who is something special now. But the rest of the team is terrible. The high schools in Boulder are steadily shrinking. Fewer and fewer people can both afford to have kids and live in Boulder. The demographics of Boulder are changing rapidly. So having Boulder try to put a respectable football team on the field is asking a bit much. They can field smaller teams, like basketball, swimming, wrestling, etc. But football is an entirely different animal. I've said for years that BHS and FHS should be allowed to be in the same district with the other schools in Boulder County (Monarch, Centaurus, Longmont, Skyline, Niwot, Silver Creek). I even spoke with the BHS principal about it - and he seemed to have no idea that there were other schools outside of Boulder and Fairview in Boulder County (sigh).

Long story short - Colorado High School sports, and football in particular, is totally messed up. It's not governed well, and that's why we're in the situation we're in.

Longmont, Niwot, Skyline and Silver Creek are all in the St. Vrain Valley School District and not in Boulder Valley SD. What do you mean by being in the same district?

 

[torero]

being from texas - I agree with how ****ed up high school sports are here in Colorado... basically a private school is like a club team playing against kids at a school that might not make a team at another school. This crap of schools playing up or down in certain sports needs to stop also - CHSAA needs to make schools play in the div./conf. depending on student count and that is that. There are to many schools playing up or down to pad state championships

You are not allowed to play down. Private schools are required to play at least at the level of their enrollment, but are permitted to play above enrollment levels.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

You need to read up on Colorado Open Enrollment. It is no different, you can enroll in another district through open enrollment with no requirement of you living within the district. Lendale White commuted every day. So enlighten me on how it is different.

It wasn't at that time. Granted, there was open enrollment but the district boundaries were hard lines.

 

[Junction]

being from texas - I agree with how ****ed up high school sports are here in Colorado... basically a private school is like a club team playing against kids at a school that might not make a team at another school. This crap of schools playing up or down in certain sports needs to stop also - CHSAA needs to make schools play in the div./conf. depending on student count and that is that. There are to many schools playing up or down to pad state championships

Are teams allowed to play down? I know a school like Valor can play up, but other than schools just crossing the cut-off going up being able to stay for a year or two, I didn't think a team could play down in a lower enrollment classification..

 

[INTHABUFF]

There is more misconception in these posts than there are truths.

I think a lot of the complaining that happens around this topic comes from the ever expanding mentality that everyone deserves to win. We all get a snack, a trophy, and a juice box whether we win or lose. The truth is, every school can't have a winning team. For somebody to be 12-0 somebody else probably has to be 0-12. Take Sacky's suggestion. In that league this year Boulder would lose to FHS, Longmont, Silver Creek, Monarch, and maybe even Centaurus. They would stomp Skyline and Niwot to go 2-7 or maybe 3-6. Now what do you do? Go down and get in a league with Lyons, Nederland, Justice, etc? No matter what there are going to be winners and losers.

In Valor's defense, they will play football in 5A next year. They will do so with an enrollment under 900. The next smallest school not named Mullen is probably about 1600. Just about every private school is playing up at least 1 level with some playing up 2 or more.

 

[Burrito]

I'm not sure how I feel in general about this, but the population argument isn't logical. If all you do is recruit to win at a certain sport, the size of the student population is irrelevant. Doesn't matter if the population is 100 if it's the right 100. So the statement "they all play up a level" isn't valid.

 

[dio]

It isn't about everyone winning - it is simply a matter of having a level playing field to compete.

 

[INTHABUFF]

What are the indicators of a level playing field? I think no matter how "fair" things are made you are going to end up with somebody losing and then complaining about the classifications.

 

[Duff Man]

It is funny they mentioned Valor hosting a track meet in that article. When I was in high school, our school had a dirt track that was graded once a year. The pits for all of the jumping events were not adequate. You can imagine what spring weather does to a dirt track. We used to laugh going to the big meets at Regis and Mullen because their facilities were ridiculous.

 

[dio]

It is funny they mentioned Valor hosting a track meet in that article. When I was in high school, our school had a dirt track that was graded once a year. The pits for all of the jumping events were not adequate. You can imagine what spring weather does to a dirt track. We used to laugh going to the big meets at Regis and Mullen because their facilities were ridiculous.

Same thing at Heritage. Was one of the few dirt tracks left in the state.... although I think they replaced it shortly after I graduated.

Well, if you want to keep private and public schools playing one another, then one option would be to limit, or eliminate scholarships that athletes receive to private schools. Another would be to cap athletic spending to keep it comparable to what public schools are forced to deal with.

But really, they should just have private schools in one league and public schools in another league. Then private schools can do whatever they want

 

[sackman]

Longmont, Niwot, Skyline and Silver Creek are all in the St. Vrain Valley School District and not in Boulder Valley SD. What do you mean by being in the same district?

I meant same County. My mistake.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

There is more misconception in these posts than there are truths.

I think a lot of the complaining that happens around this topic comes from the ever expanding mentality that everyone deserves to win. We all get a snack, a trophy, and a juice box whether we win or lose. The truth is, every school can't have a winning team. For somebody to be 12-0 somebody else probably has to be 0-12. Take Sacky's suggestion. In that league this year Boulder would lose to FHS, Longmont, Silver Creek, Monarch, and maybe even Centaurus. They would stomp Skyline and Niwot to go 2-7 or maybe 3-6. Now what do you do? Go down and get in a league with Lyons, Nederland, Justice, etc? No matter what there are going to be winners and losers.

In Valor's defense, they will play football in 5A next year. They will do so with an enrollment under 900. The next smallest school not named Mullen is probably about 1600. Just about every private school is playing up at least 1 level with some playing up 2 or more.

Enrollment at private schools had nothing to do with the sports programs when they recruit and financially aid players. There is no defense for the Valor Violators. They cheat and have been caught multiple times. If CHSAA had any balls Valor would be eliminated from post season play until the kids in question graduate.

 

[sackman]

Take Sacky's suggestion. In that league this year Boulder would lose to FHS, Longmont, Silver Creek, Monarch, and maybe even Centaurus. They would stomp Skyline and Niwot to go 2-7 or maybe 3-6. Now what do you do? Go down and get in a league with Lyons, Nederland, Justice, etc? No matter what there are going to be winners and losers.

My argument isn't so much about winning. And you're probably right about who they would lose to. LHS and Silver Creek are very solid teams. My point is that Boulder will probably never be competitive again at 5A, and neither will Fairview for that matter (in football anyway). We'd have much more interest in the games if Boulder were playing Longmont as opposed to playing Legacy or Mtn View or Poudre.

 

[SuperiorBuff]

My argument isn't so much about winning. And you're probably right about who they would lose to. LHS and Silver Creek are very solid teams. My point is that Boulder will probably never be competitive again at 5A, and neither will Fairview for that matter (in football anyway). We'd have much more interest in the games if Boulder were playing Longmont as opposed to playing Legacy or Mtn View or Poudre.

Perhaps Colorado needs to go back to being a 6A state. Boulder & Fairview are both well above the 5A enrollment but still have no business being in the same class as most of the big 5A schools.

 

[BlackNGold]

It wasn't at that time. Granted, there was open enrollment but the district boundaries were hard lines.

That not correct. Colorado's The Public Schools of Choice Law was passed in the mid 90s - way before the Lendale White situation. District boundaries were not hard boundaries. A lot of that was an outfall of creating Charter Schools.

 

[13Buff]

Same thing at Heritage. Was one of the few dirt tracks left in the state.... although I think they replaced it shortly after I graduated.

Well, if you want to keep private and public schools playing one another, then one option would be to limit, or eliminate scholarships that athletes receive to private schools. Another would be to cap athletic spending to keep it comparable to what public schools are forced to deal with.

But really, they should just have private schools in one league and public schools in another league. Then private schools can do whatever they want

I actually didn't mind running on some of the dirt tracks. Bennett HS sucked, Concrete Track. After 4 Miles (3200, 1600, 800 and 4x800) on that f***ing track my shins felt like they had split into a thousand pieces.

Loved going to some of the Bigger schools, nice cushy tracks, lots of girls to look at. (Graduating class size of 67=slim pickings)

 

[SuperiorBuff]

That not correct. Colorado's The Public Schools of Choice Law was passed in the mid 90s - way before the Lendale White situation. District boundaries were not hard boundaries. A lot of that was an outfall of creating Charter Schools.

That is true, but I remember big issues crossing district lines, especially for athletes.

 

[dio]

I actually didn't mind running on some of the dirt tracks. Bennett HS sucked, Concrete Track. After 4 Miles (3200, 1600, 800 and 4x800) on that f***ing track my shins felt like they had split into a thousand pieces.

Loved going to some of the Bigger schools, nice cushy tracks, lots of girls to look at. (Graduating class size of 67=slim pickings)

Yeah, those rubber tracks are the norm now cause they're cheap. Even the crappy middle school by my house has one, and I run on it on sometimes