sparkybuffs
New Member
so why, with better players and similar results, was hawk given more time than Embo?
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Has Jon Embree's behavior today damaged the University and football program?
- Thread starter dio
- Start date
so why, with better players and similar results, was hawk given more time than Embo?
White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
Ugh, those same players that he guided to a 2 win season the year before? Don't leave out the part about Hawk having 6 OL for spring practice. Nor his OL starting 2 true freshman. Nor the best WR on the team being Scotty McKnight. I don't even want to face you with who the QB was.
I'm glad you're consistent, though. Admit to defeat on the W/L front so you revert back to the lack of talent argument.
3-10 and 1-11 is not similar to 2-10 and 6-7
Hawk went to a bowl game his second year, embree did not.
The bad results for hawk happened after year two. Not in year two. Plus Hawk's buyout was significantly higher than Embree's. The AD could not afford it at the time because they were still paying for Barnett.
White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
They aren't ****ing similar results. What world do you live on?
"similar results" :wtf: :lol:
Dude, this year made me miss the **** out of Cody Hawkins. Similar results. Get the **** out of here.
Dude, this year made me miss the **** out of Cody Hawkins. Similar results. Get the **** out of here.
JWP303
Well-Known Member
This is such a self-serving argument and could only come from someone who is loyal to JE. Shouldn't we be happy Bohn learned from his Hawkins mistake and is not repeating it?
sparkybuffs
New Member
you guys really think hawk and his staff was better than embree?!
JWP303
Well-Known Member
I think trying to justify Embree getting more time based on Hawk getting more time is a slippery slope.
White_Rabbit
Well-Known Member
Yes. Embree is that bad. Look at the on field results. Look at how badly Embree lost.
All he had to do was win 3 games and we would or be discussing this. Are you telling everyone that he did not have the talent to beat three teams on this schedule? Really? Along with all of the other factors that have been repeated above is enough to get anyone fired. Would you get to keep your job if you delivered the results comparable to what Embree delivered? I know I would be fired without a question.
Yes I did. I saw a AD who was doing everything he could to not throw Embree under the bus where as Embree threw the whole university under the bus and took no blame for this mess but blamed it on others and played the race card.
FlatironsBuff
Well-Known Member
I am sure that Sac State must have bought a new desk and catered meals for thier coaches since they were able to concentrate on coaching enough to beat a BCS program on the BCS programs own field. We all know that Benson in down is a issue. But they flat out did not do their job and coach the kids up. Period. What would a new desk and university provided water have bought us? One win? Five? Were we seriously one desk and some cases of bottled water away from a bowl game?
Hell. He was unjustly fired. And now we know...hire a NFL position coach with no OC or DC experience and buy some water and a new desk, and success will flow like wine!
Excuses are bull****. He had two years to coach kids up. He failed miserably to do that in any form.
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Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat: And he had beat #3 Oklahoma. If Embo had made it to a bowl game or hell even beat a USC or Oregon type of opponent once (like Hawk did), he too would've gotten more time. Comparing Hawk's 5 years to Embo's 2 is ****ing stupid.
Buffenuf
massive tool
He wasn't hired to be an alumni rep, he was hired to be HEAD Coach of a D-1 football team! I respect his past efforts on the field, but he blew that respect with his emotional blubbering, following a horrible season as HC (neatly summed up by the decision to KO to Utah after tying it up late!), when professionalism was called for. Gawd, even DH showed more class!
Its no wonder a black coach like Embree "won't get second chances" if they act like Embree did, most don't, they are professional; JE is not. I don't recall Dennis Greene or Tyrone Willingham blubbering away when they got fired, and both got plenty of second and even third chances.
And, yes, Joel, you continue to beclown yourself. Too many hits to the head in that UT blowout, I guess.
Buffenuf
massive tool
The Mac-coached '84 bunch at least looked like they knew how to tackle and cover and run onto the field as a team. They had real young talent, but played with effort and emotion and showed their coach was at least organized!
The 2012 version? NOT SO MUCH!
Buffenuf
massive tool
I think everyone acknowledges that Bohn would have handled that presser differently if he had a do-over. I think we all also have concerns with Mike Bohn. But this is his last shot, and I think he deserves it. If he messes this up, he will be gone.
That doesn't excuse Embree trying to burn down Dal Ward on his way out.
That doesn't excuse Embree trying to burn down Dal Ward on his way out.
Okay, Sparkybuffs, I think I now see where you're coming from.
Here is where we agree:
The broader issue with the football team is systemic; it is a cancer that starts with the President and trickles down through the Chancellor and Athletic Director. Our upper leadership has historically viewed football as more of a public relations risk than than an important tool for reaching out to alumni, donors and future (out-of-state) students. I'd argue this is a product of the early 2000s scandal, and in my opinion, it has resulted in significant mismanagement of resources and priorities.
Here is where we disagree:
What Jon Embree did today was not "constructive". It was emotional, and it appeared to be largely self-serving. What message did he constructively send? "It's not fair! I didn't get enough time!". And he sent it again and again.
You seem to find that helpful. I couldn't disagree more, and it is what this thread is about. Instead of offering constructive media feedback, he turned the day into a self-involved media circus.
Let us contrast this, to what many members of Allbuffs have done:
You have called this place a cesspool. However, this cesspool generated an enormous volume of email traffic to the Regents, the President, the Chancellor and Athletic Director. I read many of the emails (they were posted). Most were well-written and sincere. Many significant donors on this site told the administration they'd be withholding donations if the football was not taken more seriously. Season-ticket holders did the same.
Nik has been bashed around here by a few folks. But he encouraged everyone--regardless of their opinion on Embree--to reach out and tell the administration how important we feel a quality football program is.
Now you tell me. Who offered a more constructive initiative for change? An emotional head coach wallowing in self-pity, seeking the refuge of his friends? Or an enormous volume of emails from invested stakeholders?
Deleted member 807
Guest
This situation is made for television if the TV show is Judge Judy or Jerry Springer.
Embree has every right to express his frustration for being hired into no-win situation. But he squandered his opportunity to show improvement. The team he coached landed dead last in division 1 football. The product on the field was unwatchable.
Bohn, Benson and DiStephano presided over 7.5 years that had a trajectory of deterioration. It is impossible to claim the admin were good stewards of the CU football brand during their tenure. It was only after the football woes impacted the broader university brand that this group decided to take swift and decisive actions. They finally spewed forth a bunch of words that show a renewed commitment towards action now that they need to attract a splashy new head coach.
The presser is an accurate representation of where we are as a program. There is blame to go around.
I'm not sure how effective Bruce Benson, Phil DiStephano and Mike Bohn will be in galvanizing the fans, former players with media credentials and the players. Leadership lost a lot of goodwill over the years.
Its never too soon to do the right thing. But Bohn, DiStephano and Benson might be providing too little, too late.
And regardless of the administration's neglect, it doesn't change the results on the field that led many fans and the admin to conclude Coach Embree was not showing the skills needed to succeed in his dream job at this point in his career.
Dysfunction abounds.
Shoulder to shoulder we will fight, fight, fight, fight, fight each other.
Embree has every right to express his frustration for being hired into no-win situation. But he squandered his opportunity to show improvement. The team he coached landed dead last in division 1 football. The product on the field was unwatchable.
Bohn, Benson and DiStephano presided over 7.5 years that had a trajectory of deterioration. It is impossible to claim the admin were good stewards of the CU football brand during their tenure. It was only after the football woes impacted the broader university brand that this group decided to take swift and decisive actions. They finally spewed forth a bunch of words that show a renewed commitment towards action now that they need to attract a splashy new head coach.
The presser is an accurate representation of where we are as a program. There is blame to go around.
I'm not sure how effective Bruce Benson, Phil DiStephano and Mike Bohn will be in galvanizing the fans, former players with media credentials and the players. Leadership lost a lot of goodwill over the years.
Its never too soon to do the right thing. But Bohn, DiStephano and Benson might be providing too little, too late.
And regardless of the administration's neglect, it doesn't change the results on the field that led many fans and the admin to conclude Coach Embree was not showing the skills needed to succeed in his dream job at this point in his career.
Dysfunction abounds.
Shoulder to shoulder we will fight, fight, fight, fight, fight each other.
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Buffenuf
massive tool
So....just WHO raised the funds for the FB locker room refurb, the practice bubble, the new turf on the practice field, the BB practice facility, all the upgrades at CEC? That's about $$30 million in fund-raising from rich guy alums who generally have locks on their wallets when it comes to CU athletics, unlike Boone Pickens, Joe Jamil and Phil Knight!
Lil' Dickie Tharp? Santa Claus? (psssst! I think it was MB)
This always sort of bugs me. I do a lot of work in risk management - and I always try and reorient people when they approach risk. The Chinese have it right, their ideogram for risk is a combination of "danger" and "opportunity." The opportunity side of "risk" is just as important to pay attention as the danger side.
Our football team is no different. Yes, there are PR dangers, and you need a good system of checks and balances to ensure you don't get burned too badly by them. But, there are huge PR opportunities, and you have to make sure that your system of checks and balances doesn't smother those opportunities, and that, in fact, the whole system is designed to maximize those opportunities.
boydbuff
Club Member
Very interesting take on the press conference and the situation at CU. Hard to argue with him. He is also pretty objective yet agrees that Embree was way over his head and should have been fired.
http://www.gazette.com/articles/graveyard-147751-klee-boulder.html
http://www.gazette.com/articles/graveyard-147751-klee-boulder.html
The next coach just needs to win. Winning will unite the fan base and silence dipshits like Klatt.
Buffenuf
massive tool
DISAGREE:
1) Embree was NOT hired into a "no-win" situation. It was a tough to win with current resources, but not "no-win". The Colo Legislature does not throw money at any state school's FB program; unlike MI, NB, Ohio or Cali. Nor does CU currently have a big $$$ alum/donor, like Phil Knight. willing to fund the AD. Nor does CU bend the rules on admitting kids that can't read; unlike every SEC school. Embree knew this coming in.
2) The trajectory looked good when DH beat OK, NU, CSU and went to a Bowl game; followed up with a decent recruiting class. But DH screwed the pooch playing QB games with his son. That's when the trajectory went south. DH was out only for CH and for DH and already was a legend in his own mind. The critical point came when lack of resources forced MB to keep DH one more year. Money doesn't grow on Colorado blue spruces and our fickle fan base doesn't help----ever heard of fights in divorce or probate court over CU season tix? Me neither! So who cares about "galvanizing" the typical bandwagon-jumping CU fan ? Play competently, with a chance to win and you'll see 50K in Folsom. Win and they'll return to sell-outs.(Funny: Same lack of resources forced MB to hold onto R Patton one more year, but hiring the right couple of guys fixed up men's BB is a hurry! Now they're sold out.)
3) The presser was mostly an accurate represetation of where Embree was as a professional, a head coach and a leader: NOWHERE! It was a natural follow-up to coaching the worst team in college FB in 2012, maybe ever. If MB made a mistake for the presser, it was assuming that Embree would act maturely and professionally. But after watching JE on the sidelines for 2 years that was a huge mistaken assumption on his part.
4) For anyone rationally looking at the situation, releasing Embree actually creates the impression that "dysfunction" will not be tolerated in FB . No more excuses will serve. If Tad Boyle can make a "no-tradition, non-basketball" scenario, a hotbed of college hoops, then the right FB coach can do the same at CU, now that CU is where it belongs in the Pac 12, and with Pac 12 $$$.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
This X 1,000,0000!
The next head coach needs to come in and win games. He needs to play sound football. He needs to have an offensive and defensive scheme. He needs to COACH.
The next coach is in a lucky spot. Next year, he can win 3 or 4 games and it will be a HUGE improvement over the ****show that was 2012.
Pretty straightforward article. He didn't blindly take one side, as you noted he said Embree wasn't the answer but also pointed out the issues within the university relating to athletics. As did Bohn.
I thought this summarized things well: