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Honest thoughts on CSU and where CU needs to look for rivalry

dply said:
You apologize for insulting this man right now!

20120425__20120426_C1_FE26STPEOPLE~p1.jpg



I'm not even lying. That is the guy I always buy my beer from. Great dude.
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Earthman!! I still have this guy's business card in my wallet. You can text him your seats and tell him what you need. Great guy!
 
Buffnik said:
The fact that you said Arkansas being comparable to CU "is a very large stretch" says a lot about a misconception of where CU is on the college football landscape. There's too much tearing down of CU among the CSU fan base and there seems to be a view that's not based in reality.

Arkansas is an excellent football program with a lot of history. Here's a quick comparison with Colorado:

ArkansasColorado
All-Time Wins685 (#22)679 (#24)
All-Time Win %.58988 (#28).58769 (#29)
National Titles1 (1964)1 (1990)
Conference Titles1326
Consensus All-Americans2330
Heisman Trophy Winners01
Other National Player Awards69

That may be the most similar program to Colorado there is. (As a side note, we both also walked away from a conference affiliation with Texas so I've got extra respect for the Razorbacks.)

Syracuse's success is right there with both of us, too. Better on some measures. The old Eastern independents never get respect outside of their region, but that's another story.

Anyway, I do agree that there is a lot of history. Similar to the Stanford-SJSU series. But people in CO care more about the CU-CSU series than folks in the Bay Area care about that one. So that is a consideration.

In my consideration, CU has moved on from other historical connections such as we had with the Big 8 teams. There is recent precedent that says history is not what should drive these decisions. CU has to do what is best for its program in the here and now. Your post only underscored for me how much the CSU link diminishes the perception of CU.
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Thanks for the breakdown - sorry for the delay in responding. Mother's day duties called this weekend.

As to the topic, I had no idea the two programs were that close historically. My comment stemed more from my own observations and was not meant as some slam on CU as many here think. Honestly, the comment was based primarily on Arkansas' last coaching hire. The fact that they were able to go out and get a guy like Bielema from Wisconsin was pretty impressive to me and, in my perception, demonstrates that the programs are at very different levels. However, after seeing your analysis, obviously my own view was short sighted and didn't take into account the overall history.
 
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Your rivals help define you. McCartney understood that from his days at Michigan. As I have said many times, no all rivalries are two way. Ohio State-Michigan is a two way rivalry, ditto for USC-ND, Texas-Oklahoma, etc. There are also a lot of one way rivalries. That is the way it was when CU picked Nebraska as a rival. Nebraska certainly did not view CU as a rival but we did them, and we certainly got on their radar as we improved. I disagree with MacINtyre on CSU being our rival. We may be their rival but I certainly do not want to be defined by a MWC team.

If you want to get some swagger back then pick USC as your rival. CU was awful when Mac circled Nebraska and everyone thought he was crazy, but he knew he had clearly define the goal for the program and he knew at that time if you were beating Nebraska you were pretty close to the top of the pyramid.
 
If we had to play a MWC team, I would much rather it be AFA. Perfect scenario IMO would be a rotation with AFA, CSU, and UWyo. All games in Boulder. If both teams are in the top 25 than an option to play at Mile High.
 
BlackNGold said:
Your rivals help define you. McCartney understood that from his days at Michigan. As I have said many times, no all rivalries are two way. Ohio State-Michigan is a two way rivalry, ditto for USC-ND, Texas-Oklahoma, etc. There are also a lot of one way rivalries. That is the way it was when CU picked Nebraska as a rival. Nebraska certainly did not view CU as a rival but we did them, and we certainly got on their radar as we improved. I disagree with MacINtyre on CSU being our rival. We may be their rival but I certainly do not want to be defined by a MWC team.

If you want to get some swagger back then pick USC as your rival. CU was awful when Mac circled Nebraska and everyone thought he was crazy, but he knew he had clearly define the goal for the program and he knew at that time if you were beating Nebraska you were pretty close to the top of the pyramid.
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The loss of the Nebraska rivalry more than any affiliation with CSU has hurt CU's overall perception in recent years in my estimation. I understand it wasn't just CU's decision, but you simply can't replace an affiliation/rivalry with a top 5 all-time program in Nebraska with a team like Utah (or CSU for that matter) and not expect it have an impact on the overall perception of the program.
 
Shldr2Shldr said:
If we had to play a MWC team, I would much rather it be AFA. Perfect scenario IMO would be a rotation with AFA, CSU, and UWyo. All games in Boulder. If both teams are in the top 25 than an option to play at Mile High.
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I understand that many on here think that CU should only play MWC teams in Boulder, but that is not the reality of the scheduling agreements between most of the programs in the PAC and the MWC right now.
 
CsquaredCC said:
I understand that many on here think that CU should only play MWC teams in Boulder, but that is not the reality of the scheduling agreements between most of the programs in the PAC and the MWC right now.
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2 for 1 is the current standard I believe.
 
CsquaredCC said:
I understand that many on here think that CU should only play MWC teams in Boulder, but that is not the reality of the scheduling agreements between most of the programs in the PAC and the MWC right now.
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Of the three teams in the region, AFA is the only school with a stadium on par with folsom in terms of seats. There is simply not enough room in the stadiums of the other schools to justify playing a game on their campus. Most power conferences will schedule a 2-1 with your MWC brethren, but in a rotation type system that changes the math.
 
Darth Snow said:
2 for 1 is the current standard I believe.
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USC, Oregon, Stanford and UCLA I believe are the only programs recently that have been able to get 2-1's and one off home games with MWC opponents. The others are home/home arrangements going forward.

Arizona St. - New Mexico (2014/2015)
Arizona St. - SDSU (2017/2018)
Arizona - UNLV (2013/2014)
Arizona - Nevada (2014/2015)
Arizona - Hawaii (2019/2020)
California - SDSU (2015/2016)
Washington - Boise St. (2013/2015)
Utah - Fresno St. (2014/2015)
Oregon St. - Nevada (2017/2018)
Oregon St. - Hawaii (2013/2014)
Washington St. - Nevada (2014/2017)
Washington St. - Boise St. (2016/2017)
Washington St. - Wyoming (2015/2018)
 
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CsquaredCC said:
USC, Oregon, Stanford and UCLA I believe are the only programs recently that have been able to get 2-1's and one off home games with MWC opponents. The others are home/home arrangements.

Arizona St. - New Mexico (2014/2015)
Arizona St. - SDSU (2017/2018)
Arizona - UNLV (2013/2014)
Arizona - Nevada (2014/2015)
Arizona - Hawaii (2019/2020)
California - SDSU (2015/2016)
Washington - Boise St. (2013/2015)
Utah - Fresno St. (2014/2015)
Oregon St. - Nevada (2017/2018)
Oregon St. - Hawaii (2013/2014)
Washington St. - Nevada (2014/2017)
Washington St. - Boise St. (2016/2017)
Washington St. - Wyoming (2015/2018)
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Weird. CU's been getting 2 for 1s with Hawaii and Fresno St. for god sakes.
 
CsquaredCC said:
USC, Oregon, Stanford and UCLA I believe are the only programs recently that have been able to get 2-1's and one off home games with MWC opponents. The others are home/home arrangements.

Arizona St. - New Mexico (2014/2015)
Arizona St. - SDSU (2017/2018)
Arizona - UNLV (2013/2014)
Arizona - Nevada (2014/2015)
Arizona - Hawaii (2019/2020)
California - SDSU (2015/2016)
Washington - Boise St. (2013/2015)
Utah - Fresno St. (2014/2015)
Oregon St. - Nevada (2017/2018)
Oregon St. - Hawaii (2013/2014)
Washington St. - Nevada (2014/2017)
Washington St. - Boise St. (2016/2017)
Washington St. - Wyoming (2015/2018)
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When looking at perceived strength of teams, Wyo and UNM are the outliers. For football anyway. FSU, BSU, Nev, & SDSU carry a bit more weight nationally. Hawaii can't afford to not schedule home and homes so that makes sense as well.
 
CsquaredCC said:
The loss of the Nebraska rivalry more than any affiliation with CSU has hurt CU's overall perception in recent years in my estimation. I understand it wasn't just CU's decision, but you simply can't replace an affiliation/rivalry with a top 5 all-time program in Nebraska with a team like Utah (or CSU for that matter) and not expect it have an impact on the overall perception of the program.
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You responded to my post but obviously did not read it much less comprehend it. Losing the Nebraska rivalry has nothing to do with the present perception of CU's football program. It has everything to do with 8 years of losing football...if CU was winning 9 to 10 games a year the overall perception would be just fine with or without Nebraska.
 
Simple, these games are much more important to the MWC schools than they are to CU.

Offer is 2 for 1 or go pound sand. There are other schools who would be willing to take the money.
 
buffedup said:
Agreed. Anybody that I know that graduated from CSU and follows sports will take every available opportunity to talk trash even when CU has scoreboard in every major sport. Such as this weekend, one guy was bragging about how CSU had a guy drafted higher than PRich. Woopty doo! You got a higher draft pick than CU for the first time in forever! Forget the fact the CU beat CSU on the field by two touchdowns and that guy that was drafted lower completely embarrassed your defense all day.

You just kind of have to shake your head.
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And they had more players drafted than our one. Bitches.
 
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dply said:
After spending Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday morning in the hospital, I went to Shpongle at Red Rocks Saturday night. I almost didn't go because of the weather and the fact that I wasn't in the mood for a concert. It was the perfect escape though and I am so glad I went. (I also forgot the tickets were a chirstmas gift from my wife and I kind of offended her when I was going to cancel it.)

Anyways, during the concert I had a CSU fan come up to me (in my CU hoodie) and just start ripping on CU. Does that school teach hatred for CU in their orientation or something? But seriously, **** that guy. I was finally happy and Douchebag McGee has to come and drum up some drama. **** em.
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"we've shut you out more times than you've beaten us" is all you need to say to ramfan.
 
Everything about CSU screams small time. Their massive insecurity complex included.

Hate it when CU fans post on their little message board. Great deal of self loathing for even making this post.

Punt the damn series and never play it again. Does CU absolutely no good in any respect.

From phone
 
Darth Snow said:
Weird. CU's been getting 2 for 1s with Hawaii and Fresno St. for god sakes.
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Umm, no. We don't have any 2-1's with either Hawaii or Fresno to my knowledge. We have two home-home series with Hawaii, and the Fresno game last year was the back end of a home/home. The only school that we have a 2-1 with is Massachusetts.
 
sackman said:
Umm, no. We don't have any 2-1's with either Hawaii or Fresno to my knowledge. We have two home-home series with Hawaii, and the Fresno game last year was the back end of a home/home. The only school that we have a 2-1 with is Massachusetts.
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wasn't the fresno st series a 2-1 with the first one being back in 2001?
 
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