What's new
By:
AllBuffs | Unofficial fan site for the University of Colorado at Boulder Athletics programs

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • Prime Time. Prime Time. Its a new era for Colorado football. Consider signing up for a club membership! For $20/year, you can get access to all the special features at Allbuffs, including club member only forums, dark mode, avatars and best of all no ads ! But seriously, please sign up so that we can pay the bills. No one earns money here, and we can use your $20 to keep this hellhole running. You can sign up for a club membership by navigating to your account in the upper right and clicking on "Account Upgrades". Make it happen!

If universities cut Varsity sports and go Club for most offerings, what should CU offer as Varsity with scholarships and NIL?

The Alabaster Yak said:
This is going to be a FAFO situation. If non revenue generating women’s sports are eventually required to have equal rev sharing as football and MBB, ADs will start dropping non revenue generating sports entirely or the football programs will officially break away so they aren’t subject to that.

Nobody actually believes women’s soccer or tennis players should be paid the same as football players.
Click to expand...
Which is why I started the speculation with this thread.

I think we might be on a path toward FB & BB getting spun off with the university getting licensing fees for the brand and a revenue split for media and parking/ concessions/ tickets/ apparel. The new entity would cover tuition and other costs as a payment to the university and also be responsible for paying the athletes.

Then, every sport not in the new entity would either become D3 or Club (non-scholarship and non-compensation sports).
 
buffgal said:
Colorado women's basketball has been removed from my will.
Click to expand...
I don't know if I would have ever contemplated leaving anything in my estate to the University (academics or athletics). Maybe some small memoriam but nothing more than that. Figure anything left of mine when I go will go to my kids and spouse.
 
Buffnik said:
I've heard coaches make statements for decades that what they see as "right" or "fair" or their duty as a the young athlete's mentor was in direct conflict with NCAA rules. Especially the Christian coaches would voice complaints. In short, "This young man who I am responsible for and who is making millions for this university can't afford a winter coat, his mom's struggling to make rent, and he doesn't have the money to take a girl out to dinner. That's wrong and I would be wrong to allow this situation for the young man and his family." That is at least fixed without having to break rules and risk your program and career to do the right thing. I hope no one who is complaining about some of the current problems thinks the old way was better when it comes to stuff like this.
Click to expand...
Typical of the NCAA and the colleges that comprise and run it.

Take what is obviously a bad and unfair situation and somehow replace it with something that for many will be worse and more unfair.

The pretense of preparing football and basketball players for life will be gone. Sure some will get a bag but most will never be pros and their NIL money will be long gone and they will be without an education.

And thousands who would have gotten an education on scholarship for non-revenue sports will now be out of luck.
 
AeroBuff99 said:
I don't know if I would have ever contemplated leaving anything in my estate to the University (academics or athletics). Maybe some small memoriam but nothing more than that. Figure anything left of mine when I go will go to my kids and spouse.
Click to expand...

Single with no children, so no problem leaving the program that brought me so much joy for the last 50 years.

If I had children, I would not have considered it. Paperwork will be signed today to get rid of the bequest
 
Man, all the negativity here to me is wild. Amateurism, love of the school, blah blah blah. Everything sounds romantic until you realize schools were making tens of millions for free labor for decades. They quite literally should revenue share. I agree there needs to be major overhaul with the transfer portal, that needs to be reined in significantly so you know the player is on your team save for maybe one transfer or a coaching change, but, I dont think I understand the doom and gloom regarding revenue sharing and kids getting paid.
 
Buff fanatic said:
Man, all the negativity here to me is wild. Amateurism, love of the school, blah blah blah. Everything sounds romantic until you realize schools were making tens of millions for free labor for decades. They quite literally should revenue share. I agree there needs to be major overhaul with the transfer portal, that needs to be reined in significantly so you know the player is on your team save for maybe one transfer or a coaching change, but, I dont think I understand the doom and gloom regarding revenue sharing and kids getting paid.
Click to expand...
It's mostly older folks who never cared to know how the sausage was made and have nostalgia for the days when they thought players were coming to CU because they fell in love with the flatirons. In reality, CU greats like Big Al, Kordell, Bienemy, Hagan, Chad Brown, etc were all taking McDonalds bags filled with cash to come here, even if it was well below what they should have been paid.

The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, however, and it is damaging the sport. I'm not concerned with the pay for play/NIL stuff, but there definitely needs to be regulation around the transfer portal. Can't have two portal periods per year and unlimited transfers. Both the program and players need to be held accountable for decisions and agreements they make with each other. Personally, I like one free transfer without having to sit out during a player's undergrad years and then unlimited as a grad transfer. That would bring some team building and team cohesion back to the game, while still allowing guys to cash in on their market value.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
It's mostly older folks who never cared to know how the sausage was made and have nostalgia for the days when they thought players were coming to CU because they fell in love with the flatirons. In reality, CU greats like Big Al, Kordell, Bienemy, Hagan, Chad Brown, etc were all taking McDonalds bags filled with cash to come here, even if it was well below what they should have been paid.

The pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, however, and it is damaging the sport. I'm not concerned with the pay for play/NIL stuff, but there definitely needs to be regulation around the transfer portal. Can't have two portal periods per year and unlimited transfers. Both the program and players need to be held accountable for decisions and agreements they make with each other. Personally, I like one free transfer without having to sit out during a player's undergrad years and then unlimited as a grad transfer. That would bring some team building and team cohesion back to the game, while still allowing guys to cash in on their market value.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I don’t care about the players bank account if it’s five figures or seven. The constant roster churn is killing it for the fans and probably isn’t great for a lot of the players long term.
 
J.R. Ewing said:
Absolutely. I don’t care about the players bank account if it’s five figures or seven. The constant roster churn is killing it for the fans and probably isn’t great for a lot of the players long term.
Click to expand...
It's good for maybe 20-30% of all collegiate athletes; the elite players who can leverage the portal for more money, and talented guys who just need a change of scenery, better system fit, or better depth chart situation. I think it's detrimental to the rest and many guys never find another landing spot or are forced to drop down a level or two.
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
It's good for maybe 20-30% of all collegiate athletes; the elite players who can leverage the portal for more money, and talented guys who just need a change of scenery, better system fit, or better depth chart situation. I think it's detrimental to the rest and many guys never find another landing spot or are forced to drop down a level or two.
Click to expand...
For a talented and impatient 18 year old who shows up on campus and is third on the depth chart, the grass is going to start looking greener everywhere. Add in a position coach who was his bud during recruitment and is now yelling at him for falling asleep during film. That kid is probably going to transfer, and then transfer after that.
 
Buff fanatic said:
Man, all the negativity here to me is wild. Amateurism, love of the school, blah blah blah. Everything sounds romantic until you realize schools were making tens of millions for free labor for decades. They quite literally should revenue share. I agree there needs to be major overhaul with the transfer portal, that needs to be reined in significantly so you know the player is on your team save for maybe one transfer or a coaching change, but, I dont think I understand the doom and gloom regarding revenue sharing and kids getting paid.
Click to expand...
The constant transfers with rosters overturning every year is the big issue. Hard to want to get involved when the young people you're helping aren't around for 3-5 years and you don't get to build real relationships. A lot of people don't have interest in paying the unofficial contracts to mercenaries for a professional team. And while player compensation isn't the issue for most of us (it's the roster turnover), the thing that's driving the disconnecting degree of transfers is that they are being offered money by boosters of other teams to make the move. Some people don't want to participate in that. I actually feel offended at the revenue, AD and coach salaries, etc when these same people cry poor and hit fans up with a GoFundMe to afford players. It's one thing when they raised money for facilities that would improve the program and fan experience for decades on top of what we give for tickets, concessions, apparel and standard donations, but to think they're going to get another check for paying players out of me? It's actually turned me off to the point where I didn't renew football season tix and I've donated nothing.
 
Fellas, this has been going on a long ass time. Now, it's just legal to do it. I had a family member in the SMU bullshvt and they didn't just get money. Heard the same shvt about Notre Dame, Michigan, and others. No telling how far it goes back.
 
Speaking of... Step in the right direction. I would think there is more support for a January window so teams can get everybody in and know their teams for the next season before Spring Ball. However, with the CFP expansion and likely going to 16 teams, it's pushing the postseason out almost to the end of January, so a January portal window will be tough for CFP teams. Personally, I think that's a good thing as it puts the top programs at a disadvantage and levels the playing a field a little.

1749830346350.png
 
Buffnik said:
The constant transfers with rosters overturning every year is the big issue. Hard to want to get involved when the young people you're helping aren't around for 3-5 years and you don't get to build real relationships. A lot of people don't have interest in paying the unofficial contracts to mercenaries for a professional team. And while player compensation isn't the issue for most of us (it's the roster turnover), the thing that's driving the disconnecting degree of transfers is that they are being offered money by boosters of other teams to make the move. Some people don't want to participate in that. I actually feel offended at the revenue, AD and coach salaries, etc when these same people cry poor and hit fans up with a GoFundMe to afford players. It's one thing when they raised money for facilities that would improve the program and fan experience for decades on top of what we give for tickets, concessions, apparel and standard donations, but to think they're going to get another check for paying players out of me? It's actually turned me off to the point where I didn't renew football season tix and I've donated nothing.
Click to expand...
Two problems here.

One is that they aren't going to take the money from the coaches and administrators to pay for all this, they are going to take it from other athletic programs and even non-athletic programs that are of benefit to a lot of students. The schools are supposed to be about education and opportunity but this new world takes away from both and nothing is being done or will be done to reverse that.

Secondly yes the elite players will end up with a nice bank account, a flashy new car and a bunch of jewelery but the reality is that relatively few will ever go on to a professional career.

At some schools student-athlete concept has always been somewhat of a sham but most of the players ended up with a degree and an experience that they could use to their benefit the rest of their lives. With "roster management" and the focus on $$ right now we are going to see a lot of kids not having much for the future when they are done.

Some schools, some coaches care enough about the kids to try to keep the focus, Prime is one of them, but even with Prime how many kids do we see spend one or two years in Boulder then get washed out?

I don't disagree with the players benefiting from their talents. I do have a problem though with college football becoming an exploitive minor league professional sports system rather than an athletic component of an educational system.

It might be time to separate the universities from professional sports. Let the NFL prospects play for pay in a minor league system, let those who aren't at that level play as a part of their education at the university for a coach who is paid like a professor.
 
buffgal said:
Single with no children, so no problem leaving the program that brought me so much joy for the last 50 years.

If I had children, I would not have considered it. Paperwork will be signed today to get rid of the bequest
Click to expand...
The ManhattanBuff fund can always receive donations!
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Speaking of... Step in the right direction. I would think there is more support for a January window so teams can get everybody in and know their teams for the next season before Spring Ball. However, with the CFP expansion and likely going to 16 teams, it's pushing the postseason out almost to the end of January, so a January portal window will be tough for CFP teams. Personally, I think that's a good thing as it puts the top programs at a disadvantage and levels the playing a field a little.

View attachment 87436
Click to expand...

This still doesn't solve the unlimited transfers issue but yea definitely a step in the right direction. I'm on board with the common idea of allowing 1 free transfer and after that you have to sit out a year if you want to transfer again. For grad students no stipulations, that's fine.

I'm also with most here in that the players getting paid plus possibly NIL doesn't matter one bit to me, hell they've been getting paid under the table forever anyway now it's just out in the open. No restrictions on transfers is what's really hurting the sport, but also for the players it's not teaching them hard work to earn or keep your spot. Instead the first sign of adversity and they hit the portal which isn't a good life lesson.
 

Sonny Grandelius, head football coach at the University of Colorado at Boulder from 1959 to 1961, compiling a record of 20–11 (.645)1749844855474.png​

He was hired as head coach at Colorado at age 29 in February 1959, succeeding recently fired Dallas Ward at a salary of $14,000.[7] Grandelius led the Buffaloes to controversial greatness, including a Big Eight Conference championship in 1961 and an Orange Bowl berth on New Year's Day.[3]

Shortly after their bowl loss to LSU, it became rumor that he had been using a slush fund to pay between 15 and 30 top recruits and their families. The NCAA investigated and released inconclusive findings on April 27, 1962,[8] which led to more controversy; the university regents had fired Grandelius six weeks earlier on March 17.[9][10] Only one regent of the six, Charles Bromley, voted not to fire Grandelius, saying the firing "violated every principle of fair play since the Magna Carta."[11]

The football team was also punished for two seasons by not allowing television coverage of games or be involved in any post-season bowl games. At least 20 players lost scholarships or left Colorado. News accounts at the time claimed that Grandelius was the first coach in the country fired for recruiting improprieties.
 
66BUFF said:

Sonny Grandelius, head football coach at the University of Colorado at Boulder from 1959 to 1961, compiling a record of 20–11 (.645)View attachment 87456​

He was hired as head coach at Colorado at age 29 in February 1959, succeeding recently fired Dallas Ward at a salary of $14,000.[7] Grandelius led the Buffaloes to controversial greatness, including a Big Eight Conference championship in 1961 and an Orange Bowl berth on New Year's Day.[3]

Shortly after their bowl loss to LSU, it became rumor that he had been using a slush fund to pay between 15 and 30 top recruits and their families. The NCAA investigated and released inconclusive findings on April 27, 1962,[8] which led to more controversy; the university regents had fired Grandelius six weeks earlier on March 17.[9][10] Only one regent of the six, Charles Bromley, voted not to fire Grandelius, saying the firing "violated every principle of fair play since the Magna Carta."[11]

The football team was also punished for two seasons by not allowing television coverage of games or be involved in any post-season bowl games. At least 20 players lost scholarships or left Colorado. News accounts at the time claimed that Grandelius was the first coach in the country fired for recruiting improprieties.
Click to expand...
That $14000 in 1959 is $155,000 now.
 
J.R. Ewing said:
That $14000 in 1959 is $155,000 now.
Click to expand...
Is there an industry more top loaded than college sports on executive pay as a percentage of total revenue? Seems like it used to be more aligned.

As an example, we take about Big Pharma as an industry which gouges consumers and profiteers. The presidents and vice presidents of division companies aren't making close to what a MBB coach makes, let alone a FB coach - and these are people managing product portfolios which include billion dollar drugs produced at close to a 90% gross margin.
 
I said there would be lawsuits and Title IX would be one of the first tests. The problem with Title IX from the start has been how the NCAA implemented it back in the 70s. They took a lazy approach and now it is coming back to haunt them (and it has been haunting them for years).

Title IX only prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex but the NCAA has basically used Title IX to discriminate against men's sports, IMO. The law was well intended and poorly executed.

So one of the questions will be does discrimination exist or is it simply free market economics. I am sure that many smart lawyers saw the Title IX thing coming and preparing legal arguments on both fronts.
 
Buffnik said:
Is there an industry more top loaded than college sports on executive pay as a percentage of total revenue? Seems like it used to be more aligned.

As an example, we take about Big Pharma as an industry which gouges consumers and profiteers. The presidents and vice presidents of division companies aren't making close to what a MBB coach makes, let alone a FB coach - and these are people managing product portfolios which include billion dollar drugs produced at close to a 90% gross margin.
Click to expand...
Can you elaborate on executive pay for these big companies not getting paid as much as MBB coaches?
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
Can you elaborate on executive pay for these big companies not getting paid as much as MBB coaches?
Click to expand...
Average pharmaceutical executive in this country makes about $150k. Top jobs can make 10-20x that number, with CEOs of Fortune ranked companies getting paid like Kirby Smart.
 
Buffnik said:
Average pharmaceutical executive in this country makes about $150k. Top jobs can make 10-20x that number, with CEOs of Fortune ranked companies getting paid like Kirby Smart.
Click to expand...
I find it hard to believe that $150k is average income for executives at any company, especially a big pharma one. Maybe that’s average base salary but I am skeptical that’s what they make.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top