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Are you aware of CU admissons history? :lol:
That's where you've gone wrong.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
thank you for sharing that point of view. the reason you quoted me to say that is because???
buffsyko
Club Member
Because I knew you wouldn't get upset if I made my point of view in context of your post. It wasn't meant as a jab at you.
while you are correct that i am not upset, i admit that i had a moment wondering where the english language broke down for you. nothing of what you said is relevant to my post.
i think your point is stronger without my quote. JMHO
buffsyko
Club Member
:lol: Yes, I agree, I'm reading your post and agree with them so, maybe it's the mental part that broke down for me....:lol:
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
The fact that Josh Smith was CU's deep threat says more about CU's offense than anything. Josh Smith's longest catch all season was 44 yards. McKnight and Patrick Williams had more 20+ yard receptions than Josh Smith did.
Josh Smith may have been the POTENTIAL deep threat, but he never showed it on the football field.
buffsyko
Club Member
Like I said, when mcknight,maxwell and espinosa are the deep threats,I'll cover my eyes.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
buffsyko
Club Member
That's true but the OL was the excuse. If simmons gets in and can contribute that will ease some of it but last I checked, cu wasn't good enough to lose players,especially starting wr's at a position that has now lost celestine,blackmon and now smith in the last 2 years.
I'm not confusing smith with westbrook,johnson etc..the numbers game concerns me more.
I would hope so. Kinda like special teams. Need everyone (WRs, TEs, and RBs) to chip in with receptions.
i dont claim to know the answers to these but....
when McKnight and PW were making those 20+ yard receptions, who was providing the "deep threat" to give them the room to make those catches?
what were McKnights/PW's longest catches?
buffsyko
Club Member
yep....
buffs04
Well-Known Member
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- I don't really understand all the ragging on Josh's work ethic/desire to play considering that he repeatedly took the field with two separated shoulders last year.
- When being so hilariously off-base as to frame this discussion as one of "there are no free rides in life" (laughable) I think it would be appropriate to consider the context: 1) college football players certainly put in a very large amount of work in college - more than most of us did at CU 2) the granting of a release outside of conference is SOP, not the sort of special exception that would qualify as "getting a free ride".
- I look forward to our WR corps next year being potentially being in the bottom quartile of the nation in production again. We have so many question marks and holes at this position our depth chart looks like a program coming off of an SMU-style death penalty. Hopefully Simmons can come in and be productive right away or we are going to see a lot more of the 3rd and 15 7yd checkdowns.
This whole debacle reeks of bitterness. I also think it is pretty funny that a lot of you who are supporting this decision love to rag on guys like Pelini for being assholes to their players. This takes it to an entirely different level.
At least realize you are being hypocritical and not really considering the situation logically.
I am not sure if you are trying to engage in a debate of semantics but if you are I would suggest you consult a dictionary.
- I don't really understand all the ragging on Josh's work ethic/desire to play considering that he repeatedly took the field with two separated shoulders last year.
- When being so hilariously off-base as to frame this discussion as one of "there are no free rides in life" (laughable) I think it would be appropriate to consider the context: 1) college football players certainly put in a very large amount of work in college - more than most of us did at CU 2) the granting of a release outside of conference is SOP, not the sort of special exception that would qualify as "getting a free ride".
- I look forward to our WR corps next year being potentially being in the bottom quartile of the nation in production again. We have so many question marks and holes at this position our depth chart looks like a program coming off of an SMU-style death penalty. Hopefully Simmons can come in and be productive right away or we are going to see a lot more of the 3rd and 15 7yd checkdowns.
This whole debacle reeks of bitterness. I also think it is pretty funny that a lot of you who are supporting this decision love to rag on guys like Pelini for being assholes to their players. This takes it to an entirely different level.
At least realize you are being hypocritical and not really considering the situation logically.
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Josh's departure hurts us because we were thin there already and he was our speed threat at WR (although his stats haven't shown much) and a very good KR specialist.
I'm not sure the loss at WR is as big of a deal. He still wasn't getting open, he just was running deep. We can have a slow guy do that and the defense still covers him. Realistically, Cody didn't have the time to throw deep last year and I'm not convinced he can huck it out there anyways. Playing WR requires a lot more than talent, and it especially requires preparation and knowledge.
Not sure J-Fly had the dedication to football to ever be a standout at WR, but I think he had the talent.
Some have mentioned coaching issues. Everyone loves Kiesau and that was his position coach. Now his position coach is in charge of the whole damn offense. Pretty sure that's not the issue.
I'm not sure the loss at WR is as big of a deal. He still wasn't getting open, he just was running deep. We can have a slow guy do that and the defense still covers him. Realistically, Cody didn't have the time to throw deep last year and I'm not convinced he can huck it out there anyways. Playing WR requires a lot more than talent, and it especially requires preparation and knowledge.
Not sure J-Fly had the dedication to football to ever be a standout at WR, but I think he had the talent.
Some have mentioned coaching issues. Everyone loves Kiesau and that was his position coach. Now his position coach is in charge of the whole damn offense. Pretty sure that's not the issue.
I think this situation was handled differently because:
-conversations ongoing with ASU before the release that resulted in J-Fly knowing he could go on scholarship with the release right away.
-J-Fly was a starter and not suffering from any personal or family hardships
-Timing - post spring camp
-dubious reasons given (my best friend's daughter is a dance major at ASU and she has studied Hip-Hop, but she claims there is no degree offered in anything that she feels would suggest a music production career in hip-hop or rap music). Combed their website and couldn't find anything, despite google. You want to be in the music business, study music. Duh.
It is very rare that a player who is seemingly in good standing and being counted on heavily elects to transfer. I think the coaches across the NCAA are united in that they are absolutely not going to release kids who just want to transfer that have no better reason than they are seeking greener pastures, ESPECIALLY if they are being counted on in a few short weeks.
Guys just don't seek transfers for these reasons. Guys don't leave their teammates unless they have good reason or they don't fit the new scheme due to a scheme or coaching change.
J-Fly has always marched to a different beat I guess.
-conversations ongoing with ASU before the release that resulted in J-Fly knowing he could go on scholarship with the release right away.
-J-Fly was a starter and not suffering from any personal or family hardships
-Timing - post spring camp
-dubious reasons given (my best friend's daughter is a dance major at ASU and she has studied Hip-Hop, but she claims there is no degree offered in anything that she feels would suggest a music production career in hip-hop or rap music). Combed their website and couldn't find anything, despite google. You want to be in the music business, study music. Duh.
It is very rare that a player who is seemingly in good standing and being counted on heavily elects to transfer. I think the coaches across the NCAA are united in that they are absolutely not going to release kids who just want to transfer that have no better reason than they are seeking greener pastures, ESPECIALLY if they are being counted on in a few short weeks.
Guys just don't seek transfers for these reasons. Guys don't leave their teammates unless they have good reason or they don't fit the new scheme due to a scheme or coaching change.
J-Fly has always marched to a different beat I guess.
Lt.Col.FrankSlade
Well-Known Member
Mr. Spock, please explain to me where logic comes into play.
There is not enough information available to make a "logical" conclusion about Josh Smith's decision to leave in the first place, let alone to arrive at a "logical" conclusion as to the reason for Bohn/Hawkins to react to his requested transfer in the fashion that he did.
It is unheard of for a starter who is so integral to his team improving asking for a transfer for such dubious reasons.
You look forward to this? This guy dumped his team and you think that is our coaches fault? I'm sorry, you didn't pull this crap with your team and then get rewarded with a transfer.
Deleted member 807
Guest
I'm not sure who you are addresing, 04. Your critique of what is said and what you take exception to is all over the place.
Seeing that the opening quote is mine, I'll respond accordingly.
I am not seeking a debate of semantics.
I do agree with some of your points, and disagree with others.
The substantive disagreement I have goes straight to the 'naive' comment.
"Naive: Lacking critical ability or analytical insight." That's straight from the dictionary.
My understanding of your principle arguement is that JS should be treated under some SOP. Your arguement is rooted in a belief that CU has an obligation to treat Josh no differently than Ballenger or Maiva. You argue that CU is out of bounds with this unprecedented release to only USC. Please keep me honest, and correct me if I got that wrong.
I believe that CU's decission would be just if there is tampering involved. I am open to agreeing with CU's decission if I knew all the facts, and those facts would lead a rational human being to understand why CU did what they did.
I reserve judgement about whether CU is being petty or bitter until more facts present themselves. Josh might spill the beans after he fugues out where he will be this fall. If he stays with CU, he's got the scholly and would be wise to keep a lid on it. If he bolts to USC or pays tuition to attend some other institution, he might spill the beans.
Until then, it's too early for me to side with JS, as you have done, or to side with the University. This is where we disagree.
You have been asked if you have any facts to bring to the table. If you have them, then share. Maybe you know for a fact that no tampering has taken place, or that no other factor was behind CU's decission. If that was the case, then the decission might indeed be discriminitory, overly punitive, petty and bitter.
But if the facts add up, and the ruling of Hawkins, Bohn and the appeal board find this action to be fair and balanced, then I whole heartedly support CU's authority to do what is right, even when doing so isn't easy.
We do agree that Josh was a playmaker and had lots of ability, and even more potential. He is a tough kid who played through injury. You never knew what was going to happen when he got his hands on the ball, and when he did, it was often exciting.
At the end of the day, this decission isn't about what Josh did on the playing field, though. This was about making decissions followed by taking action followed by living with the consequences. From my perspective, there is blame to spread around, and both Josh and CU have ended up in a lose-lose situation.
FlatironsBuff
Well-Known Member
Which brings up the perception I have had about this whole thing. What if Josh's issue is simply that he DOES have dreams fo the NFL, and knows that catching balls from Cody for the next two years is less than likely to show off his talent? Now we all know that he has other issues-- work ethic, learning the playbook inside and out, catching every ball thrown his way, etc, but he may think that the major issue is the QB getting the ball to him, so he wants to go somewhere else where he may have a different (i.e., better) QB to toss him the rock.
Having a line that will allow us to send more than 2 or 3 receivers out into patterns will help. I'm excited about next year, if we are healthy.