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Long-term plan for CU facilities upgrades

MtnBuff said:
No it isn't just money. It is also that we will suck at it as well compared to our conference mates.
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This is pure speculation and why would lacrosse be different? Just because DU is good at lacrosse doesn't mean we will be. How did Air Force lacrosse do this year? Collegiate lacrosse is dominated by a small handful of programs.
MtnBuff said:
And LAX is much more popular with younger people than you think, while baseball is not on their radar.
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And this is just false as evidence by participation numbers already provided in this thread.
 
Buffnik said:
You'd buy a ticket to watch chess?

Anyway, fwiw some of the dumbest humans I've ever met were MLB players. Not just "least educated", which would be more understandable since so many go from high school to the minor leagues without attending college. But really dumb. Certainly has its share of really smart guys, too, but being "cerebral" isn't exactly a requirement for the sport and being too much of a thinker may be a negative in a lot of ways.
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Now that was one of the silliest retorts I have received :LOL: on AllBuffs! I would like to see a documented analysis of your research on the intelligence of MLB baseball players. I suspect it is a very small sample size. I think it has more to do with the fact you have made up your mind that baseball should not be a CU sports program, and you are not open to a factual debate to prove out the truth, but one of just proving you are right.

Not meant to be personal, just an observation. Glad those decisions are in the hands of more qualified people.
 
JOEinDenver said:
Now that was one of the silliest retorts I have received :LOL: on AllBuffs! I would like to see a documented analysis of your research on the intelligence of MLB baseball players. I suspect it is a very small sample size. I think it has more to do with the fact you have made up your mind that baseball should not be a CU sports program, and you are not open to a factual debate to prove out the truth, but one of just proving you are right.

Not meant to be personal, just an observation. Glad those decisions are in the hands of more qualified people.
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Nah. This was tongue in cheek based on personal experience. I've got a cousin who played in MLB and has been a pitching coach for a long while since. May be the dumbest person I've ever met. :D

But that's totally beside the point that baseball has incredibly high startup costs, then loses more money on an annual basis than any men's sport we could choose, and it's so established with so many programs out there that the barriers to entry to become an elite program are incredibly high so it's likely the Buffs would suck. It just seems like an incredibly bad idea... unless you like baseball to the point where you'd put blinders on the reality of it. Baseball would literally be a worse decision for RG than any other NCAA recognized men's sport you could name.
 
JOEinDenver said:
If we add men’s baseball and wrestling do we have to add women’s softball and swim?
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That would be a crazy amount of facilities needed. We would have to build a D1 level baseball stadium and a separate softball stadium (no they can't share.) Wrestling we could do in existing facilities but we have nothing close to a competition level pool which is a big ticket item.

I'd love for us to add wrestling. We could use the Keg or remodel Balch. A good Title IX balance would be gymnastics using the same facilities.

With the talent available in Colorado we could get the core of a competitive wrestling team locally and the sport is popular at the HS level here. I think interest could be generated at the collegiate level as well.

If we spend the money for a competition level aquatic facility that would mean adding both men's and women's swimming with future potential for water polo.
 
JOEinDenver said:
If we add men’s baseball and wrestling do we have to add women’s softball and swim?
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Could add any women's sports as long as you at least balance the number of scholarships. CU already falls quite short of a 50/50 split that reflects its student population, which means CU doesn't meet Title IX goals. (It's hard to get there with football having 85 men's scholarships.). CU might be willing to add sports so that it's an equal number of new women's scholarships to men's, but there's no way that CU would add a men's sport without at least adding equal scholarships on the women's side.

As an aside, Title IX is what killed college wrestling. There isn't a women's equivalent to match up with it.

Here's the list of scholarships per NCAA sport: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

fwiw, the combo I like based on Colorado culture and what I think CU could be really good at while not having major start up costs is:

Men's: Lacrosse (12.6 scholarships)

Women's: Beach Volleyball (6 scholarships), Triathlon (6.5 scholarships)

I also think that MLAX & WBV would draw spectators and interest for spring sports at CU. Tri is in the fall and I like it mostly because it's such a perfect cultural fit and also because ASU was able to start a program and win consecutive national championships -- I believe that CU could overtake them.
 
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BuffsRising said:
When we dropped baseball in 1980, douglas looney asked eddie crowder for a comment, and crowder said, “the average attendence at baseball games was 10. Nobody cares.”

Says it all, really. Nobody really wants to watch college baseball, especially in a snowstorm in march.
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The baseball “stadium” barely held more than 10 people. It consisted of some aluminum bleachers. I used to go and collect foul balls. It was the rough equivalent to what we might see at a modern day civic softball complex. I don’t even remember actually needing a ticket.
 
BuffsRising said:
When we dropped baseball in 1980, douglas looney asked eddie crowder for a comment, and crowder said, “the average attendence at baseball games was 10. Nobody cares.”

Says it all, really. Nobody really wants to watch college baseball, especially in a snowstorm in march.
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Yep that's relevant today :rolleyes:
 
so, just asking, but why can't a w. softball team and a men's baseball team share a facility?

also, i have been told, by lacrosse people that the state of colorado has become a hotbed. if so, it would seem to be a good choice for supported sports for CU.

lastly, the apathy around CU baseball when it was dropped is real. while it was a hot button issue, there weren't a bunch of alums willing to save it. cal dropped baseball and before the ink dried they had enough private funding to preserve the program.
 
Buffnik said:
Could add any women's sports as long as you at least balance the number of scholarships. CU already falls quite short of a 50/50 split that reflects its student population, which means CU doesn't meet Title IX goals. (It's hard to get there with football having 85 men's scholarships.). CU might be willing to add sports so that it's an equal number of new women's scholarships to men's, but there's no way that CU would add a men's sport without at least adding equal scholarships on the women's side.

As an aside, Title IX is what killed college wrestling. There isn't a women's equivalent to match up with it.

Here's the list of scholarships per NCAA sport: http://www.scholarshipstats.com/ncaalimits.html

fwiw, the combo I like based on Colorado culture and what I think CU could be really good at while not having major start up costs is:

Men's: Lacrosse (12.6 scholarships)

Women's: Beach Volleyball (6 scholarships), Triathlon (6.5 scholarships)

I also think that MLAX & WBV would draw spectators and interest for spring sports at CU. Tri is in the fall and I like it mostly because it's such a perfect cultural fit and also because ASU was able to start a program and win consecutive national championships -- I believe that CU could overtake them.
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It's not dead yet. https://www.ncaa.com/sports/wrestling/d1
 
Liver said:
so, just asking, but why can't a w. softball team and a men's baseball team share a facility?

also, i have been told, by lacrosse people that the state of colorado has become a hotbed. if so, it would seem to be a good choice for supported sports for CU.

lastly, the apathy around CU baseball when it was dropped is real. while it was a hot button issue, there weren't a bunch of alums willing to save it. cal dropped baseball and before the ink dried they had enough private funding to preserve the program.
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Completely different field dimensions. Different spacing between the bases, different outfield dimensions. Different height and location of the mound. If I'm not mistaken they even have different specs for dugouts and bullpens.
 
zbuff said:
It's not dead yet. https://www.ncaa.com/sports/wrestling/d1
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College wrestling is far from dead. Pac12 wrestling is crap, but UU, USC, and fUCLA are among the teams traveling and competing seriously as club teams in an attempt to be school sponsored. CU's club team doesn't look all that motivated. Most of the rest of the country has healthy programs.

Colorado's state tournament has packed the Pepsi Center for its three days a year since it was moved there, and always packed the coliseum before that. I know at it was one of the most attended state wrestling tourneys in the country for years, and probably still is. Most years there is a petition passed around trying to get wrestling back at CU.

It's not going to compete with football or basketball for popularity, but it's a cheap damn sport with a big following in the state. Northern Colorado turned D1 over a decade ago and is in the Big12 - a very good wrestling conference. They finished 38 in this year's NCAA's, and are on the rise. They haven't closed the borders when it comes to recruiting, though. Plenty of room for a Buff squad.

Edit: This an old, but good article on Title IX, touching on its effects on wrestling. https://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/28/opinion/wrestling-with-title-ix.html
 
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MtnBuff said:
Completely different field dimensions. Different spacing between the bases, different outfield dimensions. Different height and location of the mound. If I'm not mistaken they even have different specs for dugouts and bullpens.
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Baseball and softball could share a lot of the same support facilities, but they would not be able to share the same field.
 
Wow...didn't realize how bad support of baseball was. Even if I have been a CU fan since 1989, I still couldn't ever wrap my head around how CU baseball could be popular in Boulder especially during the snowy months. CSU and Wyoming also cut their baseball programs as well and the Air Force has Federal monies to run a baseball team plus the development of cadets through sports is an important thing too. UNC is in Greeley where foothills weather patterns are not as severe.

I still want a spring men's sport at CU and I really appreciated women's lacrosse getting CU fans into mid-May. That means a good two months before conference media days start.
 
Good for UCCS. I think having the sky sox down there creates a complimentary fan base for UCCS. People that like watching minor league level baseball are going to love college baseball. That being said, competing in the RMAC is completely different than competing in the PAC12. That $5M facility they just built would not cut it.
 
Shldr2Shldr said:
Good for UCCS. I think having the sky sox down there creates a complimentary fan base for UCCS. People that like watching minor league level baseball are going to love college baseball. That being said, competing in the RMAC is completely different than competing in the PAC12. That $5M facility they just built would not cut it.
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To build that same $5M facility would cost a lot more in Boulder, and as you say it is not close to a D1 complex. The RMAC means that they can bus to most of their games and many road games don't even involve multiple night hotel stays.

By the way it looks like the Sky Sox will be gone in 2019, moving to San Antonio. In their place will be the rookie league team that is currently in Helena Montana.

Since rookie league starts later this means that UCCS baseball will be pretty much the only game in town in season.
 
Buffnik said:
Also, I'd bet that Naropa would sell CU its land on Arapahoe in exchange for enough money to locate one unified campus for itself and build it out.
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Naropa has a building and some space on Arapahoe out around 65th
 
dio said:
Naropa has a building and some space on Arapahoe out around 65th
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Yeah. They're all over town, though. Is that the likely spot for the unified campus they dream of? You can do worse than being across the street from Ephrain's.
 
Buffnik said:
Yeah. They're all over town, though. Is that the likely spot for the unified campus they dream of? You can do worse than being across the street from Ephrain's.
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If they sell the old school building, they could use that money to build an actual campus out East. Lots of room out there to expand.
 
Jalapeno said:
Wow...didn't realize how bad support of baseball was. Even if I have been a CU fan since 1989, I still couldn't ever wrap my head around how CU baseball could be popular in Boulder especially during the snowy months. CSU and Wyoming also cut their baseball programs as well and the Air Force has Federal monies to run a baseball team plus the development of cadets through sports is an important thing too. UNC is in Greeley where foothills weather patterns are not as severe.

I still want a spring men's sport at CU and I really appreciated women's lacrosse getting CU fans into mid-May. That means a good two months before conference media days start.
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We used to be lucky to attract 2,000 people to the Denver Bears game at Mile High back in the day. You can’t judge the future from that kind of past. With people like you naysayers, we wouldn’t have the Colorado Rockies. Believe me, we heard the same arguments you are making here.
 
Not Sure said:
If they sell the old school building, they could use that money to build an actual campus out East. Lots of room out there to expand.
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I'd love to see that. It would be great for Naropa and CU could use that property for when it re-imagines all that under-utilized and poorly designed infrastructure it has between Boulder Creek and Arapahoe Ave.
 
JOEinDenver said:
We used to be lucky to attract 2,000 people to the Denver Bears game at Mile High back in the day. You can’t judge the future from that kind of past. With people like you naysayers, we wouldn’t have the Colorado Rockies. Believe me, we heard the same arguments you are making here.
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Comparing AAA to MLB is apples and oranges. We had D1 baseball and no one went. It would still be a money loser with sparse attendance if we brought it back for all the reasons that have been discussed ad nauseum.
 
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