Mike Bohn replacment qualifications discussion

[Gold]

http://www.dailycamera.com/cu-colle...ates-at-cu-buffs-athletic-director?source=rss

From a different thread, it shows the DC's list of potential candidates. I can't say anyone appears to be a home run.

I never knew what Solich accomplished as a businessman over the past decade. Pretty damn impressive.

No to all of these candidates. Looks like Howell searched for existing ADs with ties to CU or MM, and added George, Solich and Barry to round out the field. We need a fresh start, no need to draw from the past.

 

[SINKRATZ]

I think what people are finding laughable is that you're making an argument that being a deputy director of a basketball school that had some trivial football success during a portion of his tenure qualifies someone to run a BCS Athletic Department, but that someone who had been an actual Athletic Director at two different non-BCS schools is totally unqualified.

Your only support for this argument is:

1) Based on the record of the football teams for which you place waaaay too much blame/credit on the AD (Mullens had nothing whatsoever to do with any success Kentucky had in football), while ignoring any other aspect of their job description, and;

2) Oregon hired Mullens, therefore he must be supremely qualified. This ignores the fact that his major accomplishment so far has been to not f**k up an already great football program.

 

[Gold]

I think what people are finding laughable is that you're making an argument that being a deputy director of a basketball school that had some trivial football success during a portion of his tenure qualifies someone to run a BCS Athletic Department, but that someone who had been an actual Athletic Director at two different non-BCS schools is totally unqualified.

Your only support for this argument is:

1) Based on the record of the football teams for which you place waaaay too much blame/credit on the AD (Mullens had nothing whatsoever to do with any success Kentucky had in football), while ignoring any other aspect of their job description, and;

2) Oregon hired Mullens, therefore he must be supremely qualified. This ignores the fact that his major accomplishment so far has been to not f**k up an already great football program.

Do I believe Sinkratz from the site allbuffs knows more than Oregon, LSU, Miami and Maryland's athletic departments?

Because that's what you're getting at. You know about how unqualified he is, but I can see, and all these top programs can see how is is far more qualified Mullens was than a guy like Bohn circa 2005.

Hate to break it to you, but the answer to my question above is an no.

 

[cubuffs85]

Show of hands if you think a NFL GM doesn't know or understand football operations.

I think some could do it, but what is job responsibilities are largely different. The GM is in charge of getting the best players under the budget constraints as well as coaches and unless they have other responsibilities they don't have to deal with the "business" side of things (community outreach, ticket sales, sponsorships, etc). The AD has become a lot more of a business position than it has ever been. Reading between the lines here of what Dr. Phil was saying, it wasn't just the football side of things they weren't impressed with MB on, it was the way he was running the business specifically the fundraising.

Saying a GM could run the AD is like saying a college coach could be a good pro coach and vice versa. Obviously some can do it, many can't.

 

[cubuffs85]

No to all of these candidates. Looks like Howell searched for existing ADs with ties to CU or MM, and added George, Solich and Barry to round out the field. We need a fresh start, no need to draw from the past.

Not a fan of Howell's whatsoever, really wish Ryan Thorburn was still there. The ones he listed were pretty obvious and names I've heard already by others. He needs to go out of the box here and list candidates were not so familiar with. Way too much "pros" and not enough "cons" in his comparison.

 

[Gold]

I think some could do it, but what is job responsibilities are largely different. The GM is in charge of getting the best players under the budget constraints as well as coaches and unless they have other responsibilities they don't have to deal with the "business" side of things (community outreach, ticket sales, sponsorships, etc). The AD has become a lot more of a business position than it has ever been. Reading between the lines here of what Dr. Phil was saying, it wasn't just the football side of things they weren't impressed with MB on, it was the way he was running the business specifically the fundraising.

Saying a GM could run the AD is like saying a college coach could be a good pro coach and vice versa. Obviously some can do it, many can't.

Not many have tried so hard to say if they can't, but agree its not the exact same job description.

I mentioned this on the last page, Oliver Luck who is WVU AD has had NFL GM/CEO jobs in his past resume. There could be more examples but I'd have to look for them.

 

[Gold]

Not a fan of Howell's whatsoever, really wish Ryan Thorburn was still there. The ones he listed were pretty obvious and names I've heard already by others. He needs to go out of the box here and list candidates were not so familiar with. Way too much "pros" and not enough "cons" in his comparison.

Yep. Listing the obvious names was a Ringo-like move.

 

[cubuffs85]

No it doesn't. Has nothing to do with him being a KU alum. Basketball was low hanging fruit that CU never thought to support. Before Bohn got here coaches offices were at folsom, players trained at Dal Ward, they had to use high school gyms for practices at times because they had to share court time with the women's hoops/volleyball, or they were holding exams, or a million other ****ing things other than what the CEC was originally built for. All the improvements in men's and women's basketball, and women's volleyball, were just common sense improvements that needed to happen the day the original planners of the CEC chose not to include them.

I am far from the biggest MB supporter... but let's give credit where it's due here. Some people will diminish MB's accomplishments with they got lucky with Tad too. If he's going to get blame for failing on somethings like Hawkins, which I think was a good move at the time; he can likewise get credit when things work out even if some luck was involved.

 

[cubuffs85]

Not many have tried so hard to say if they can't, but agree its not the exact same job description.

I mentioned this on the last page, Oliver Luck who is WVU AD has had NFL GM/CEO jobs in his past resume. There could be more examples but I'd have to look for them.

Oliver Luck was Houston Dyanamo Prez IIRC right before ascending to the job. And previously, he was involved with NFL International Ops.

While you are correct in that not many have gone from one to another. I think there's a reason for that.

I do think an NFL Team President or someone else coming from the business operations is more likely to be suited for the AD position. The AD usually isn't so directly hands-on in recruiting like a coach is, as a GM is in charge of roster decisions.

The job of the AD has really evolved. Would Michigan have hired a Pizza guy 40 years ago? Would CSU have hired a top booster? The days of Frank Broyles are long gone. Sure Barry Alvarez has worked at Wisconsin, but those examples are getting fewer and fewer. Mike Belloti wasn't comfortable to sitting at a desk.

 

[SINKRATZ]

Do I believe Sinkratz from the site allbuffs knows more than Oregon, LSU, Miami and Maryland's athletic departments?

Because that's what you're getting at. You know about how unqualified he is, but I can see, and all these top programs can see how is is far more qualified Mullens was than a guy like Bohn circa 2005.

Hate to break it to you, but the answer to my question above is an no.

No, that's not at all what I'm getting at. I'm not even saying that Mullens was unqualified, he may be great, but it's hard to tell with basically no track record running a department and having never hired a football coach that has actually coached a game.

What I am saying is that (eliminating hindsight for a moment if you can) you can't honestly put Mullens resume 3 years ago next to Bohn's from 2005 and say Mullens was clearly qualified for an AD job, but Bohn was not. And it sounds foolish when your argument is based on the fact that Oregon hired him, that doesn't mean s**t, CU hired Bohn so he must have been qualified if he got the job, right?

 

[pcbuff]

Bohn did two great things while he was here. Pac 12, and BBall.

I am far from the biggest MB supporter... but let's give credit where it's due here. Some people will diminish MB's accomplishments with they got lucky with Tad too. If he's going to get blame for failing on somethings like Hawkins, which I think was a good move at the time; he can likewise get credit when things work out even if some luck was involved.

Nothing should deminish that. He also botched football and this has hurt the balance sheet and fund raising. I think the balance sheet and the embarassment to the university of the press confernce and the handling of the football hire are ultimately what cost him his job. If CU hadn't come under the attack of race, I think Bohn would still be here. That was really a black eye that CU didn't deserve.

 

[cubuffs85]

Do you really think Boyle would have come here without the facilities upgrades? A good coach is a good coach no matter where he comes from, and none of them wanted to touch CU until facilities were upgraded.

I don't think Bzdelik would've, but Boyle absolutely. When your choice is UNC (and I'm not talking about North Carolina) or CU, 99 out of 100 are going to choose the latter. Tad's a Colorado guy, there's no doubt this was very desirable job for him. Getting the upgrades from the previous coach's contract was a bonus in this.

 

[Gold]

No, that's not at all what I'm getting at. I'm not even saying that Mullens was unqualified, he may be great, but it's hard to tell with basically no track record running a department and having never hired a football coach that has actually coached a game.

What I am saying is that (eliminating hindsight for a moment if you can) you can't honestly put Mullens resume 3 years ago next to Bohn's from 2005 and say Mullens was clearly qualified for an AD job, but Bohn was not. And it sounds foolish when your argument is based on the fact that Oregon hired him, that doesn't mean s**t, CU hired Bohn so he must have been qualified if he got the job, right?

You can't even admit Mullens is good present day. You think the jury is still out. He's been at Oregon for 3 years. The last 3 years at Oregon have been overwhelmingly successful.

 

[Junction]

Allow me to ask another question... If Benson came out and said "Our criteria for hiring our next athletic director is that the person we hire will have to have shown they can run a successful football program" and then comes back in a month and says "Introducing our new Athletic Director - Joe Blow, assistant athletic director from Vanderbilt", are you going to say to yourself "Wow, they just got the guy who exactly matched the criteria they laid out!"?

Bump for Gold to answer....

 

[cubuffs85]

Nothing should deminish that. He also botched football and this has hurt the balance sheet and fund raising. I think the balance sheet and the embarassment to the university of the press confernce and the handling of the football hire are ultimately what cost him his job. If CU hadn't come under the attack of race, I think Bohn would still be here. That was really a black eye that CU didn't deserve.

I think football played a huge part and particularly the coaching search/mismanged presser. But like I said with Dr. Phil's comments, I think the "business" of things (not being able to raise funds for Folsom improvements) ultimately led to his dismissal which you could say is football-related.

Like I said Tuesday afternoon, saying Bohn was successful as CU AD except when it came to football (like many claimed) is like saying it's a good restaurant except when it comes to the food. Since football brings home nearly all the bacon (let's not forget MBB is just starting to become profitable), everything else can fail and football can work out, and it's not great but it's OK. It can't be the other way around. The service, decor, location of a restaurant can all be bad but if you got unbelieveable food, people will likely comeback since they are usually going for that. OTOH, the best restaurant ambiance won't compensate if the food sucks unless it's like a sports bar or something, where food might be secondary.

 

[SINKRATZ]

You can't even admit Mullens is good present day. You think the jury is still out. He's been at Oregon for 3 years. The last 3 years at Oregon have been overwhelmingly successful.

And so were the 10 years before he got there, so how can you even judge his impact so far?

Serious question, how do you evaluate the job an AD has done? To me certainly the performance of the football team is one major factor. I believe the single biggest impact (for good or bad) an AD has on the football program is in his decision of who to hire as his head coach. This was obviously one of Bohn's major failings and I hope the 3rd time was the charm. Since Mullens to this point in his career has hired ZERO coaches that have actually coached a game, isn't it fair to say the jury is still out on him as an AD?

 

[sackman]

Nothing should deminish that. He also botched football and this has hurt the balance sheet and fund raising. I think the balance sheet and the embarassment to the university of the press confernce and the handling of the football hire are ultimately what cost him his job. If CU hadn't come under the attack of race, I think Bohn would still be here. That was really a black eye that CU didn't deserve.

Hurt the balance sheet? That's a weird comment. Can you elaborate?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Quattro]

You can't even admit Mullens is good present day. You think the jury is still out. He's been at Oregon for 3 years. The last 3 years at Oregon have been overwhelmingly successful.

Prior 10 Year History at Oregon:
2000: 10-2
2001: 11-1
2002: 7-6
2003: 8-5
2004: 5-6
2005: 10-2
2006: 7-6
2007: 9-4
2008: 10-3
2009: 10-3
Overall: 87-38, 0.696

With Oregon:
2010: 12-1
2011: 12-2
2012: 12-1
Total: 36-4, 0.900

Under Mullens there has been more success, but Mullens didn't hire Kelly so where exactly does he get credit in this? Phil Knight was already giving Oregon large amounts of money prior to Mullens and he only hired Helfirch who is a complete unknown.

 

[cubuffs85]

We had 50" of snow in Boulder in March, April, and May (1st). AD's would get mad pretty quickly after flying 30 guys out and have them spend their weekend in a hotel room watching snow melt.

A new adminstration only lessens the chance of baseball in the near future. I would absolutely love it if CU got a baseball program, but not counting on it.

 

[cubuffs85]

Prior 10 Year History at Oregon:
2000: 10-2
2001: 11-1
2002: 7-6
2003: 8-5
2004: 5-6
2005: 10-2
2006: 7-6
2007: 9-4
2008: 10-3
2009: 10-3
Overall: 87-38, 0.696

With Oregon:
2010: 12-1
2011: 12-2
2012: 12-1
Total: 36-4, 0.900

Under Mullens there has been more success, but Mullens didn't hire Kelly so where exactly does he get credit in this? Phil Knight was already giving Oregon large amounts of money prior to Mullens and he only hired Helfirch who is a complete unknown.

Like in pro sports, good players make good coaches, make good GMs, make good owners, etc. Same principle applies here. The AD is going to get blamed regardless if s/he had direct impact on the failure of the on-field product, so they get to reap the rewards of success. The AD(and/or athletic administration) sets a vision, is a bridge between the coach/administration in many cases, responsible for ticket sales, etc.

 

[Darian3Hagan]

Say baseball one more time.

 

[Gold]

In the last 3 years at Oregon, Mullens has been hiding under a desk hoping no one realizes he's yet to accomplish anything worthwhile, and his lack of accomplishments are directly in conjunction with the athletic department is reaching the top in several sports.

Furthermore, the AD position as a rule of thumb is an unknown mystery until he hires his own FB coach, regardless of being on the job for numerous years.

Anything more to add? This is great stuff. The question becomes should we, as informed citizens of the sports world with an emphasis in AD's, alert Oregon they may have made a mistake with Mullens?

 

[SINKRATZ]

In the last 3 years at Oregon, Mullens has been hiding under a desk hoping no one realizes he's yet to accomplish anything worthwhile, and his lack of accomplishments are directly in conjunction with the athletic department is reaching the top in several sports.

Furthermore, the AD position as a rule of thumb is an unknown mystery until he hires his own FB coach, regardless of being on the job for numerous years.

Anything more to add? This is great stuff. The question becomes should we, as informed citizens of the sports world with an emphasis in AD's, alert Oregon they may have made a mistake with Mullens?

I have no idea what you're saying here, but let me try one more time:

Yes, Oregon football has been good for the past 3 years, but it was good for many years before that. I don't know the inner workings of the OU athletic department, so it's hard for me to know what specifically Mullens has done good or bad since being hired. I suspect you don't know either, but if you do please enlighten us as to Mullens myriad of accomplishments so we can heap praise on him.

 

[cubuffs85]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Gee the university president as opposed to the AD. I would imagine the president might be in a better position to affect changes re: admitting students. I'd also be surprised if Gee was considered by many to be a "football guy." He seems like more of a businessman who understands that a successful football program is good for business.

Any major College President will stress that. Benson is actually more of a businessman than Gee, they didn't hire him because of his long outstanding service in higher learning. He has as many degrees as I do, but he's hell of a lot more successful.

 

[cubuffs85]

In the last 3 years at Oregon, Mullens has been hiding under a desk hoping no one realizes he's yet to accomplish anything worthwhile, and his lack of accomplishments are directly in conjunction with the athletic department is reaching the top in several sports.

Furthermore, the AD position as a rule of thumb is an unknown mystery until he hires his own FB coach, regardless of being on the job for numerous years.

Anything more to add? This is great stuff. The question becomes should we, as informed citizens of the sports world with an emphasis in AD's, alert Oregon they may have made a mistake with Mullens?

Sometimes less guidance is needed. If things are going well, who cares? If the football/men's basketball programs are largely successful, the AD usually keeps his or her job barring some rules violations, which Oregon might be dealing with. Not sure how much that falls on Mullens though.

 

[Quattro]

I have no idea what you're saying here, but let me try one more time:

Yes, Oregon football has been good for the past 3 years, but it was good for many years before that. I don't know the inner workings of the OU athletic department, so it's hard for me to know what specifically Mullens has done good or bad since being hired. I suspect you don't know either, but if you do please enlighten us as to Mullens myriad of accomplishments so we can heap praise on him.

This should not be that hard to understand :lol:

We will see if Mullens is a good AD if Helfrich can keep the momentum going, which I am skeptical of.

 

[cubuffs85]

Some thoughts on all of the above.....Junction, you're right about the Nolan Ryan thing---but thats got more to do with Jon Daniels (their GM) and what hes done than what Nolan hasn't done. As a Ranger fan, I hope Nolan stays with the team, but I think he'll retire or go work with his kid in Houston, and Jon Daniels will be the Grand Poo-bah of all things baseball down there......which could have Rick George looking for another job. With this search in general, I think Gold is off. This person needs to be able to raise money like nobody's business.....given that they won't have any coaching changes to make anytime soon. The two names I've seen (George and Tom Bowen) would be fine with me. Let's not go off the deep end with somebody like Ceal Barry, or McCartney (heaven forbid after his comments after the Embree firing).

I doubt McCartney would seriously be considered(nor would he want it). He's become way too polarizing.

 

[Junction]

A new adminstration only lessens the chance of baseball in the near future. I would absolutely love it if CU got a baseball program, but not counting on it.

I think you're exactly right. As a former player, Bohn was probably more of an advocate for getting CU back on the diamond than anybody else in the administration was or is likely to be....

 

[Gold]

I have no idea what you're saying here, but let me try one more time:

Yes, Oregon football has been good for the past 3 years, but it was good for many years before that. I don't know the inner workings of the OU athletic department, so it's hard for me to know what specifically Mullens has done good or bad since being hired. I suspect you don't know either, but if you do please enlighten us as to Mullens myriad of accomplishments so we can heap praise on him.

Reminder, this is coming from someone who was saying Bohn was qualified for the CU AD in 2005. How did that turn out? Another way of saying your judgement so far has been extraordinary, so of course you're right about Mullens...

One last question. If Mullens is interested in the CU AD position because an affinity towards the state of Colorado, do you hire him?

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

I am convinced. Hire Oregon's AD immediately!!!!!