Good. Hope he gets a big reward for damages and Florida get's ****ed.
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NIL: How Does it Work? (Plus transfer rules)
- Thread starter Uncle Ken
- Start date
Just reading this makes me puke. The numbers are ridiculous. What an f-ed up system
GRM
I'm a ****ty troll
Totally a mess. The six things that surprise me the most:
1. The $13.5M number for a 17-18 YO True Freshman just boggles my mind, plus the $$ upfront, and the amounts paid during the 1st 2 years. 17-18 YO Blue Chip QB's are far from a guarantee--look at all the transfers that just did not work out for whatever reason.
2. JR played for $0 NIL at ASU and he played pretty well as a True Frosh given their roster. He went to his Dad's school.
3. Paragraph 41 of the Complaint:
Rojas, CEO of the NIL Collective: "Tell Jaden we look forward to setting him up for life. Need to set up his brokerage accounts asap. Dude is rich and we just got started."
Why in the hell would the NIL CEO be talking about setting up brokerage accounts, unless he or the NIL collective were going to manage them taking fat commissions and controlling the $$ throughout? JR, the family, and his advisors/representatives would tell JR to get the $$ out ASAP, and manage it via their own investment guru. This would be to "fox(es) controlling the hen-house." Just crazy how slimy this portion looks.
4. The Miami Nil guy settled with JR for a measly $150K. The collective lawyers in the lawsuit will bill more than that in month. The Miami guy's comments just were classic . . . Florida has the black eye.
5. The Complaint makes it sound almost like guys talking at a country club talking about "funny money" during a round of golf, then never really having it. There is your inflated net worth, however $$$$$$$ actual liquid funds are generally a whole new ballgame even for people that are "rich," but not Uber-rich.
6. Probably the central figure is the guy in the car business... Most of us all know that somewhere around 60% of the car guys are slimy, it is just a slimy industry. One thing that car guy specifically should know, but also all the Defendants is that unless you have a deal, you put very little in writing--the text messages?? Total idiot farm. A bunch of us have bought new cars.
I do not think this lawsuit or story will go away anytime soon. I do not think the case would even settle for $13.5M, given the shot at punitive damages, the lawyers involved, and the individual defense costs. I can't wait to see the Defendant's answers/excuses and then how they turn on each-other trying to deflect blame.
Think about this, if they wanted/could to settle this thing via just "pony up," the lawsuit would have been settled pre-filing. I doubt Defendants ever truly had the liquid funds, throughout this entire saga. No matter what I sort of doubt the car whale is cash rich enough to take the hit alone. Napier would be hesitant to settle since any payment he makes is probably public since he works for a public institution and is already on the Hottest of Hot Seats. Napier makes $7M a year, however I could not see him having/giving up years of compensation to settle with a muddied prospect of future employment. Also, I have sneaking feeling that it is very doubtful that Rojas or Castro-Walker have any liquid money/assets left, as they are probably already out of his jobs, reputations in tatters and will be the 1st ones to head to the bankruptcy court. UGLY.
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I didn’t know about the HS security guard story.
There’s a lot going on there, and none of it’s good
BK doesn’t look good. This has been going on for a while, so ultimately it’ll just go down as more noise.
Meh. They'll move on to the next in 24 hours
Am i the only one who missed this case existing?
news.bloomberglaw.com
Colorado Antitrust Suit Against NCAA Keeps Athlete Claims Alive
Former college athletes are keeping antitrust claims alive in Colorado against the National Collegiate Athletic Association despite the sports organization’s nearly $2.8 billion settlement designed to stave off lawsuits.
The story says judgement entered because SS failed to show for trial.
In every state, I think, if you don't file an "Answer" to a Complaint, judgement enters at that point and no trial is scheduled.
So, months ago, did SS and his advisors know of the accusations, file an answer and then blow the case off?
Beyond the original accusations and questions about SS's behavior, you have to wonder why he decided not to show and not to offer any defenses. If you understand that not filing an answer makes you 'guilty', then you should as likely be aware that not showing for trial causes the same result. Either no one properly advised him, or he chose not to listen. This is a lot of money.
In every state, I think, if you don't file an "Answer" to a Complaint, judgement enters at that point and no trial is scheduled.
So, months ago, did SS and his advisors know of the accusations, file an answer and then blow the case off?
Beyond the original accusations and questions about SS's behavior, you have to wonder why he decided not to show and not to offer any defenses. If you understand that not filing an answer makes you 'guilty', then you should as likely be aware that not showing for trial causes the same result. Either no one properly advised him, or he chose not to listen. This is a lot of money.
Is NIL worse or the unlimited transfers? I’m tempted to think the latter.
Good point, I guess I see them both as part of the new Wild West of CFB. NIL is driving the transfers, at least in part. It is a mess.
GRM
I'm a ****ty troll
Sorry about the long post above. This is my long-post for the week. Due to family circumstances (my son was the boy H&R'd across from the bus station on April 26th), I have not been posting very much. For those that read, thanks for the patience. I do try to be informative with my thoughts. So here it goes:
Figuring out NIL is like peeling back an onion. Previously, I thought these NIL collectives, although maybe not great for the game, were somewhat altruistic--all about raising and doling out NIL to numerous athletes for their school to win at football. I expected administrative costs but those would be competitive salaries born by the NIL Collective as a general cost of doing business. I.e. the CEO gets paid X, and they just have a salary pool for the rest. Essentially, they would run sort of like a non-profit connected just to a school (they use the School's name or part of it)... Perhaps, a few schools have NILs structured that way.
Now, in exploring news of the previous NIL scandals (Texas A&M specifically) and others that have already bellied up/folded, I am surprised at the seedy nature of some of the NIL CEOs (I call these guys and the people associated with them "Principals"). They are not like T. Boone Pickens/Phil Knight types (Uber-Rich tied to their school), rather these NIL guys seem way more the financial management/wheeler-dealer types with diverse backgrounds, some questionable. Also, I doubt these collectives have outside Board of Directors, given it is a new industry, unsettled law/rules, etc... In delving further, I think many NIL collectives really set up as a multi-tiered marketing systems, with money leaks all over the place--essentially an awesome venture for NIL principals and associates, until it all falls apart.
I found this today on On3 about Nil: Be aware of exclusivity terms-- With top recruits now allowed to negotiate terms of NIL deals before they sign a National Letter of Intent and enroll at their respective universities, contracts are being drafted. Kennyhertz Perry attorney Mit Winter pointed out exclusivity as one part of contracts to keep an eye on. “Some agreements will say we have exclusive rights to your NIL,” Winter said. “That means you cannot enter into any other NIL agreements with anyone outside of the collective. So that’s an important thing to pay attention to unless they’re paying a lot of money. You probably don’t want to sign an exclusive deal. You want to sign a non-exclusive deal. So these are the parts of these agreements that you really want to pay attention to.”
Could "exclusivity" be a make or break portion of an athletes NIL Agreement? Absolutely. It is something not really considered by the athlete or family in the negotiations, as they just want to get paid, and the amount is #1. Rather, it is stuck in the fine print when the agreement circulates. Theortically, "exclusivity" means is that NIL collectives are not just paying athletes to play at their chosen school, rather the players are contracting with a 3-7 fold money-making ventures perhaps long-term. In some cases more money could be realized for the collective Principals than a certain athlete. Granted, the athlete gets his contract, thus should to be paid, however look at all the unknowns/money making opportunities for the NIL principals in this industry:
1. In JR's case, it seemed the collective CEO was going to manage his financial affairs (i.e. set up brokerage accounts)--see PP41 bolded above. No wonder Rojas was excited when he thought the deal was closed--he would be sitting on the cash making cow expecting huge commissions for managing $$ etc... for how ever many years;
2. Presuming the NIL agreement has an exclusive, it makes sense that someone gets a % cut for each NIL sponsorship/portion closed on behalf of each athlete. For ones without an exclusive, they still likely get a % of the sponsorships etc... and they are probably insiders to the school. Hence, I don't think these guys set up sponsorships etc... for free.
3. When a NIL signs a certain athlete, it seems practical that some Principal/party receives a % cut, sort of a finder's fee/performance payment for closing a deal with a recruit. I do not think these guys do the school's marketing, contacting, negotiating and closing for free;
4. In raising $$$ for the NIL, I know many non-profits use bundlers or outside raisers that can take a huge % cut of fees raised. I think the same would hold true with NIL principals operating on this side of the business. The more $$$ the NIL raises, stands to reason it's Principals take a portion for "good performance";
5. Presumably, we think that NILs are cash liquid, since they have to pay-out to athletes. However, if the player payments are tiered/contingent on them succeeding at a school, yet the player's NIL donor is paid in full/nearly in full, doesn't the NIL leverage its money investing--akin to what insurance and other companies do?? This means they invest--but who takes the cut for securing/negotiating the investments that allow them to make money on their money? Principals... their to associated peers?;
6. Although these NIL collectives are 1st tied to a school (use their name or a portion), for a player with exclusvities wouldn't it make sense that a NIL collective hold-onto players even if they leave their initial school? Seems counter-intuitive, however why cut off money making opportunties? Blue-chip QBs get paid the most, so what happens when QB X is barely beaten out by QB Y, yet X QB will be a hot commodity on the transfer market? Woundn't the NIL collective/Principals want to hold onto QB X even at his new school for 3 reasons: (1) altuistic--the school's Collective took a hit with X leaving, but can maybe it can off-set some of that based on QB X's future earnings; (2) scumbag--wouldn't the NIL principals relish the opportunity to market QB X to the new school and set up all the sponsorships at the new school? More deals, fees, commissions, etc...; and (3) scumbag--really arn't NIL Principals truly interested in all mighty $$ over loyalty to a school? Don't they really want commissions, bonuses, finder's fee cuts etc... at each step of the process?; and
7. College Football Cash cow. One amazing thing reported last week was how much money Larry Scott and George Kliavkoff made driving the PAC-12 off a cliff. Why not, throw on the seven figure severances for the bad work done?? JOKE. College football is such a cash cow that people spend funny money. I think the NIL collectives will run the same way, beholden to no-one until their hand is caught in the cookie jar. I think some schools may have some oversight, but others may just want to reap a % and the "good works done," if their team is good. In CU's case, just look how much $$ the school has made on licensing, exposure, apparel and ticket sales. On the NIL collective oversight issue for the schools, I doubt they would want to be directly involved--negligent supervision, general risk exposure--who would want a Nevin Shaprio on their watch.
In sum, NIL collectives are very complex multi-layered marketing companies in a new mostly unregulated industry. We probably will not understand more of the inter-workings until a few of these NIL collectives bomb--a Ponzi guy (i.e. Nelvin Shapiro from Miami fame) is featured on American Greed. I doubt any federal legislation can get passed, since they never really work--except of course on getting re-elected and their TV cameos. I do not think the NCAA or conferences will touch NIL, since some States have given carte-blanche. It could be State patchwork laws, however this will take decades. Truly, the wild west.
Food for thought for those that want to understand NIL!! Again, figuring out NIL will really be peeling back an onion. The thing about NIL that I really hate is the imbalance of the parties involved: young athletes (17-18 yo), some coming from low income, not college educated (many they sign out of HS), generally little $$ experiences v. a new industry with Sharks seeking to sign contracts with huge enormous implications for whatever term. I think in the end, the Sharks have the leverage. For most players + family, the $$$ is the bottom line and if their number is met, it is tough to backtrack negotiating all the details. I see this with some good business people/entrpreneurs where they get presented an LOI for $XM to purchase their company, and I have to inform them once we start negotiating (i.e. due diligence process then a contract), when we finally close, it is likely that the $XM may have dropped substantially, there may be a ton of strings attached--rarely are you paid in cash! For these more seasoned business folks, I always tend to see one thing, once the LOI is signed they are one-step out the door onto a new chapter in life. Thus, pulling out is rarely an option.
Lastly, I'm sort of waiting for a "General Player Collective" alternative to emerge. Why not? A company (say IMG) attempts to pool great college prospects signing them to market, license, and represent them to whatever initial school will pay/provide the best opportunity, then re-represent them throughout their college football jouney, and for the very few follow them into the Pros for NFL riches. Why not start doing their marketing and licencing before they depart HS, if there are $$$$$opportunties down the line? I am synical, but it seems these athletes in one sense are like a lottery ticket/potential cookie jar.
Go Buffs!!
GRM
I'm a ****ty troll
It is not good on the factual end. There may be more to this on the legal end. I never saw anything indicating that there was a default judgment entered, but have not seen anything where counsel entered an appearance either. Given the amount of damages, it appears most of the judgment would have to be punitive, which in most states is not permitted in a default judgment. This is odd.
A question concerning valid jurisdiction or service of process comes to mind. Maybe Shilo did not reside in the State, it happened when he was a minor, or he was not validly served.
Bankruptcy court seems odd, however sometimes practititioners challange these types of debts there.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
The next evolution of NIL collectives and the battles that await: 'This is a big inflection point'
The NCAA’s landmark settlement has been billed by some as a move to bring stability to an unruly recruiting landscape. While offering solutions for some problems, the new model creates others.
sports.yahoo.com
Now I know how Mizzou is doing so well with NIL recruiting. Good job getting the state law changed ahead of everyone else so that the university can donate to the NIL collective.
The next evolution of NIL collectives and the battles that await: 'This is a big inflection point'
The NCAA’s landmark settlement has been billed by some as a move to bring stability to an unruly recruiting landscape. While offering solutions for some problems, the new model creates others.
hawg1
Well-Known Member
Agree. Drink plus new law is a good combo.
Many have postulated collectives coming in-house under House settlement. This seems to say university monies going to external collectives under “marketing agency” arrangement (if I read it correctly)
Someone with oil money sure must love softball. WOW.
GRM
I'm a ****ty troll
I didn't see this but I mentioned it to someone last night b/c they had NCAA SB on. This particular sport is one where a Program (really any school) that has a sport specific benefactor could theoretically buy 4-5 great pitchers (pitching is such a premium) and be prohibitive favorites to win it all. This could really tilt the scales in a bunch of the less popular sports.
This sounds like another avenue to syphon money into players pockets without oversight. I can see a coach telling a recruit, you can get paid $5k per practice from boosters, I mean fans:
LINCOLN, Neb. -- Three of the most tradition-rich college football programs are capitalizing on the passion of their fans to generate funds for their NIL collectives.
Nebraska and Ohio State are opening one or more of their preseason practices to the public and charging admission. Alabama will let fans in for free to an open practice, but those who want to get player autographs afterward will be required to pay a few bucks to join the Crimson Tide's collective.
NFL teams have long allowed fans to attend training camps, with most charging no admission.
College athletes have been allowed to cash in on their name, image and likeness since 2021, and collectives that facilitate deals for them initially were funded by big-money donors. Now, fans at large are being asked to chip in as well, with no donation too small.
Schools that struggle to fill their stadiums during the season probably would never ask fans to pay to watch a practice. It can work at places like Nebraska and Ohio State, which have long ranked among leaders in attendance and whose spring games, which are glorified practices, regularly draw between 60,000 and 80,000.
Temple University associate professor Thilo Kunkel, who researches NIL's impact on college sports, said opening practices for a price is a creative way to add to the NIL pool if a school can pull it off. Even though the players won't be in full pads and temperatures could be in the 90s, hardcore fans will come for an up-close look at the team.
"They want more than just a Saturday afternoon game," Kunkel said. "They want that authentic behind-the-scenes access and the practices actually are giving them that."
Nebraska is charging $25 per fan, any age, for its open 6 p.m. practice Saturday. Carson Schott, CEO of the 1890 collective, estimated 3,000 fans would show up.
"Husker fans are the most loyal, passionate fan base in the country!" Schott said in an email to The Associated Press. "We knew this event would have great support in helping Husker Athletics and 1890. The opportunity to watch and see how practice is run is a unique opportunity that is usually reserved for large donors. We couldn't be more excited!"
Cornhuskers coach Matt Rhule said Nebraska doesn't plan to charge for events that have traditionally been free, such as the annual Fan Day.
"But moving forward in this new model, we have to find ways to raise revenue and to support 1890," he said. "It'll be a good practice. I want people to see the way that we practice. And at the end, we'll have some fun."
Ohio State is charging $50 to attend one of four open practices, with the last one Sunday. Fans also get a pair of commemorative 2024 Ohio State training camp sunglasses and access to a FanFest. Attendance was capped at 750 per practice, meaning the Buckeyes could raise $150,000 for their NIL efforts if each practice sold out.
Ohio State sold out two open practices last year, when tickets cost $30 and attendance was capped at 500.
Alabama will let fans watch practice for free during its Fan Day on Aug. 11, but those who want to go through the autograph line will have to join the Yea Alabama collective. Memberships start at $18 per month.
"The concept is really interesting," Kunkel said. "It's basically top schools with brand value that can leverage that to generate extra funds. Even those top schools are facing the need to generate additional money because NIL compensation, as well as attracting players through NIL deals, is becoming more and more competitive."
LINCOLN, Neb. -- Three of the most tradition-rich college football programs are capitalizing on the passion of their fans to generate funds for their NIL collectives.
Nebraska and Ohio State are opening one or more of their preseason practices to the public and charging admission. Alabama will let fans in for free to an open practice, but those who want to get player autographs afterward will be required to pay a few bucks to join the Crimson Tide's collective.
NFL teams have long allowed fans to attend training camps, with most charging no admission.
College athletes have been allowed to cash in on their name, image and likeness since 2021, and collectives that facilitate deals for them initially were funded by big-money donors. Now, fans at large are being asked to chip in as well, with no donation too small.
Schools that struggle to fill their stadiums during the season probably would never ask fans to pay to watch a practice. It can work at places like Nebraska and Ohio State, which have long ranked among leaders in attendance and whose spring games, which are glorified practices, regularly draw between 60,000 and 80,000.
Temple University associate professor Thilo Kunkel, who researches NIL's impact on college sports, said opening practices for a price is a creative way to add to the NIL pool if a school can pull it off. Even though the players won't be in full pads and temperatures could be in the 90s, hardcore fans will come for an up-close look at the team.
"They want more than just a Saturday afternoon game," Kunkel said. "They want that authentic behind-the-scenes access and the practices actually are giving them that."
Nebraska is charging $25 per fan, any age, for its open 6 p.m. practice Saturday. Carson Schott, CEO of the 1890 collective, estimated 3,000 fans would show up.
"Husker fans are the most loyal, passionate fan base in the country!" Schott said in an email to The Associated Press. "We knew this event would have great support in helping Husker Athletics and 1890. The opportunity to watch and see how practice is run is a unique opportunity that is usually reserved for large donors. We couldn't be more excited!"
Cornhuskers coach Matt Rhule said Nebraska doesn't plan to charge for events that have traditionally been free, such as the annual Fan Day.
"But moving forward in this new model, we have to find ways to raise revenue and to support 1890," he said. "It'll be a good practice. I want people to see the way that we practice. And at the end, we'll have some fun."
Ohio State is charging $50 to attend one of four open practices, with the last one Sunday. Fans also get a pair of commemorative 2024 Ohio State training camp sunglasses and access to a FanFest. Attendance was capped at 750 per practice, meaning the Buckeyes could raise $150,000 for their NIL efforts if each practice sold out.
Ohio State sold out two open practices last year, when tickets cost $30 and attendance was capped at 500.
Alabama will let fans watch practice for free during its Fan Day on Aug. 11, but those who want to go through the autograph line will have to join the Yea Alabama collective. Memberships start at $18 per month.
"The concept is really interesting," Kunkel said. "It's basically top schools with brand value that can leverage that to generate extra funds. Even those top schools are facing the need to generate additional money because NIL compensation, as well as attracting players through NIL deals, is becoming more and more competitive."
It's comments like this that make me perfectly fine with all the smoke these college athletes are starting to get from the media. Cam Ward stayed in college instead of going pro because he received a poor draft rating and knew he'd make more via NIL, and then left Washington State for what was assuredly a multi million dollar NIL deal for one season at Miami. But that's not "real money".
Seems difficult to scan in practice but I love the idea.