NY Times: State Penn planning Paterno´s exit

[Buffarino]

The police and DA were involved in Boulder. They found no grounds for charges. The same cannot be said here.

It's a damn shame he lacked the intestinal fortitude to call the police 10 years ago. Who knows how many more boys were assaulted in that time frame?

 

[JimmyBuff]

rumor is Pres cancelled PC. Joe Pa wanted to speak. So now Joe Pa is at odds against the administration.

I'd be shocked if he coached on Sat.

 

[JimmyBuff]

The police and DA were involved in Boulder. They found no grounds for charges. The same cannot be said here.

It's a damn shame he lacked the intestinal fortitude to call the police 10 years ago. Who knows how many more boys were assaulted in that time frame?

well the former DA who investigated the 98 incident is missing and presumed dead

 

[BuffNut99]

rumor is Pres cancelled PC. Joe Pa wanted to speak. So now Joe Pa is at odds against the administration.

I'd be shocked if he coached on Sat.

Nah, I just think they're generally afraid of what's going to come out of his mouth at his age, let alone something so inflammatory that requires delicate PR sensibilities to speak about in front of the press. He's going to coach on Saturday, but Nebraska's odds of winning just tripled with all the distraction.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

The police and DA were involved in Boulder. They found no grounds for charges. The same cannot be said here.

It's a damn shame he lacked the intestinal fortitude to call the police 10 years ago. Who knows how many more boys were assaulted in that time frame?

I understand the police and DA were involved in those CU situations. Do you think they were involved because Barnett & McCartney contacted them?

 

[Buffarino]

I understand the police and DA were involved in those CU situations. Do you think they were involved because Barnett & McCartney contacted them?

I'm not even going any further down this road. The situations are so different from one another than I will not compare them.

Paterno was told that one of his coaches was a pedophile and did nothing other than what the letter of the law required. He will be judged for his actions.

 

[leftybuff]

The police and DA were involved in Boulder. They found no grounds for charges. The same cannot be said here.

It's a damn shame he lacked the intestinal fortitude to call the police 10 years ago. Who knows how many more boys were assaulted in that time frame?

Jerry?

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

I'm not even going any further down this road. The situations are so different from one another than I will not compare them.

Paterno was told that one of his coaches was a pedophile and did nothing other than what the letter of the law required. He will be judged for his actions.

I am not a bible scholar, but this seems to fit: John 8:1-12

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

While I think Joe Pa should have gone to the authorities once he noticed the admin doing nothing about it, I do think circling him up with these sick and twisted ****s that are in the admin at PSU that let this happen is quite a stretch and not at all fair to the man.

He did what he is supposed to do with an accusation like that. He had no evidence. He had no proof, he just had something a GA told him. He then went his superiors, made sure they understood they accusations and the situation and then returned to doing his job. At that point it is up to the university to not investigate to the fullest extent but to contact the authorities as well.

Don't get me wrong Joe Pa was incorrect when he did not go to the police, he was wrong in not following up with the admin to make sure it was looked into, however he did do what was legally asked of him, and not being aware of all the facts of the situation, I think conducted it as many others would have. He is a good coach, and from what I can tell has been an honest and honorable person. He made a mistake, but looping him in with this same group of monsters that did this and let this happen, I think is a little out of line.

There are alot of emotions at play here, especially on this board given how many members are fathers and would kill whoever did this to their children. I understand the anger, the hate, and the disappointment that is being and will be thrown at PSU. I just wish that JoePa's legacy would have been his coaching and his winning rather than what it is sure to be now.

 

[Buffnik]

While I think Joe Pa should have gone to the authorities once he noticed the admin doing nothing about it, I do think circling him up with these sick and twisted ****s that are in the admin at PSU that let this happen is quite a stretch and not at all fair to the man.

He did what he is supposed to do with an accusation like that. He had no evidence. He had no proof, he just had something a GA told him. He then went his superiors, made sure they understood they accusations and the situation and then returned to doing his job. At that point it is up to the university to not investigate to the fullest extent but to contact the authorities as well.

Don't get me wrong Joe Pa was incorrect when he did not go to the police, he was wrong in not following up with the admin to make sure it was looked into, however he did do what was legally asked of him, and not being aware of all the facts of the situation, I think conducted it as many others would have. He is a good coach, and from what I can tell has been an honest and honorable person. He made a mistake, but looping him in with this same group of monsters that did this and let this happen, I think is a little out of line.

There are alot of emotions at play here, especially on this board given how many members are fathers and would kill whoever did this to their children. I understand the anger, the hate, and the disappointment that is being and will be thrown at PSU. I just wish that JoePa's legacy would have been his coaching and his winning rather than what it is sure to be now.

Paterno told these "superiors" a watered down account of the report.

These "superiors" interviewed the GA on their own and the GA stuck to his story.

These "superiors" then decided to go with Paterno's version of events and decided it was not an incident worth reporting to police.

I think it's fair to say that Paterno's influence and agenda were all over this thing.

 

[skibum]

I understand the police and DA were involved in those CU situations. Do you think they were involved because Barnett & McCartney contacted them?

Or it's possible that by the time they were told/found out, the police were already involved - or the police found out concurrently - or a million other things. The only possible comparison is if they had specific knowledge that a sex-crime had been committed *and* knew that the police did not know *and* 'reported it up the chain' *and* saw that 'up the chain' did not report to police *and* then didn't take on themselves to report to police.

Seriously, there's about 14 "ands" before you can compare the situations. Or, more simply:
Apples /= Oranges

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Paterno told these "superiors" a watered down account of the report.

These "superiors" interviewed the GA on their own and the GA stuck to his story.

These "superiors" then decided to go with Paterno's version of events and decided it was not an incident worth reporting to police.

I think it's fair to say that Paterno's influence and agenda were all over this thing.

As long as JoePa has been there and as much influence he may or may not have with the admin, it is ultimately up to them to do whatever they can to protect the image of Penn State. JoePa's "watered down" version also may or may not be what was told to the admin, because ultimately it is up to the admin to protect the image of Penn State. Once they knew they had to do something, possible sexual assault of a minor is a lot more politically correct and palatable to the general public then someone saying a pervert anally raped a 10 year old. This situation is a huge mess and I think there needs to be major house cleaning from the very bottom to the very top. Keep in mind though that most things that are coming out right now are being filtered by Penn State first. We may or may not be hearing the exact chain of events, and we may or may not ever know what was said and how much the coach pushed them to do something about it. All we know right now is that Joe got some accusations, told his superiors and went back to work. Thats it. We don't know if he covered it up, if he ignored it, if he fought about it, or if the admin simply told him to shut up and coach football. This will not be pretty for Penn State and probably won't be for Joe Paterno, but like I said before, He shouldnt be included with the group of perverts that allowed this to happen and this should not be his legacy.

 

[JimmyBuff]

Paterno told these "superiors" a watered down account of the report.

Uh and you know this how?

 

[BuffUp]

I hope so - the whole staff (no pun attended) needs to to be gone ASAP and some need to go to jail even faster!!!

****ing losers !!

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Uh and you know this how?

Third hand reports of second hand reports are almost always watered down.

 

[66BUFF]

While I think Joe Pa should have gone to the authorities once he noticed the admin doing nothing about it, I do think circling him up with these sick and twisted ****s that are in the admin at PSU that let this happen is quite a stretch and not at all fair to the man.

He did what he is supposed to do with an accusation like that. He had no evidence. He had no proof, he just had something a GA told him. He then went his superiors, made sure they understood they accusations and the situation and then returned to doing his job. At that point it is up to the university to not investigate to the fullest extent but to contact the authorities as well.

Don't get me wrong Joe Pa was incorrect when he did not go to the police, he was wrong in not following up with the admin to make sure it was looked into, however he did do what was legally asked of him, and not being aware of all the facts of the situation, I think conducted it as many others would have. He is a good coach, and from what I can tell has been an honest and honorable person. He made a mistake, but looping him in with this same group of monsters that did this and let this happen, I think is a little out of line.

There are alot of emotions at play here, especially on this board given how many members are fathers and would kill whoever did this to their children. I understand the anger, the hate, and the disappointment that is being and will be thrown at PSU. I just wish that JoePa's legacy would have been his coaching and his winning rather than what it is sure to be now.

he killed his legacy when he chose to stay around long after he had lost it as a coach

 

[JimmyBuff]

Third hand reports of second hand reports are almost always watered down.

true. What Nik is suggesting is that the Penn STate administration covered up the Sandusky incident in 2002 because Joe Pa told them a different version than Mike M (GA). I think that's a stretch and not accurate. Once MM told his account of what he saw to the AD and other superior what Joe Pa said to them really wasn't that relevant.

 

[Buffarino]

I am not a bible scholar, but this seems to fit: John 8:1-12

Try this one. Much more applicable.

Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me

 

[Buffarino]

Uh and you know this how?

I believe it was in his grand jury testimony.

 

[Buffnik]

Uh and you know this how?

From the Grand Jury testimony. Of course, there is the alternate interpretation that the GA took it upon himself to tell Paterno, also decided to make the incident out to be less than it was, continued to minimize it to Curley and Schultz, and then later lied to police and the courts in order to screw over these guys. I suppose you could go with that one.

March 3, 2002 -- Paterno reports the incident to Athletic Director Tim Curley, saying the graduate assistant had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy," according to the grand jury. Later, the assistant is summoned to a meeting with Athletic Director Tim Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz..

While the assistant insists to the grand jury that he told Curley and Schultz that he saw Sandusky and the boy engaged in anal sex, Curley and Schultz told the grand jury they had not been told of such an allegation. Instead, Curley said he had the impression the conduct amounted to non-sexual "horsing around." Schultz said he couldn't remember details, but seemed to recall that "Sandusky might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals while wrestling," according to the grand jury. Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus and the incident is reported to the charity, but no law enforcement investigation is launched, according to the grand jury.


http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-07/...port-young-boy-jerry-sandusky/2?_s=PM:JUSTICE

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

From the Grand Jury testimony. Of course, there is the alternate interpretation that the GA took it upon himself to tell Paterno, also decided to make the incident out to be less than it was, continued to minimize it to Curley and Schultz, and then later lied to police and the courts in order to screw over these guys. I suppose you could go with that one.

March 3, 2002 -- Paterno reports the incident to Athletic Director Tim Curley, saying the graduate assistant had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy," according to the grand jury. Later, the assistant is summoned to a meeting with Athletic Director Tim Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz..

While the assistant insists to the grand jury that he told Curley and Schultz that he saw Sandusky and the boy engaged in anal sex, Curley and Schultz told the grand jury they had not been told of such an allegation. Instead, Curley said he had the impression the conduct amounted to non-sexual "horsing around." Schultz said he couldn't remember details, but seemed to recall that "Sandusky might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals while wrestling," according to the grand jury. Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus and the incident is reported to the charity, but no law enforcement investigation is launched, according to the grand jury.


http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-07/...port-young-boy-jerry-sandusky/2?_s=PM:JUSTICE

From this article I see no reason why Paterno should be help responsible, what paterno said should have been enough for the university to launch a full investigation 10 years ago. Like others have said, JoePa should have gone to the cops, he was morally wrong to not do so, but he is in no way related to the sick ****s that apparently run PSU. He should go, as should the entire administration of Penn State. He should not however be held responsible for the lack of action by his superiors.

 

[JimmyBuff]

From the Grand Jury testimony. Of course, there is the alternate interpretation that the GA took it upon himself to tell Paterno, also decided to make the incident out to be less than it was, continued to minimize it to Curley and Schultz, and then later lied to police and the courts in order to screw over these guys. I suppose you could go with that one.

March 3, 2002 -- Paterno reports the incident to Athletic Director Tim Curley, saying the graduate assistant had seen Sandusky "fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy," according to the grand jury. Later, the assistant is summoned to a meeting with Athletic Director Tim Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz..

While the assistant insists to the grand jury that he told Curley and Schultz that he saw Sandusky and the boy engaged in anal sex, Curley and Schultz told the grand jury they had not been told of such an allegation. Instead, Curley said he had the impression the conduct amounted to non-sexual "horsing around." Schultz said he couldn't remember details, but seemed to recall that "Sandusky might have inappropriately grabbed the young boy's genitals while wrestling," according to the grand jury. Sandusky's locker room keys are confiscated, he is told not to bring his Second Mile participants to campus and the incident is reported to the charity, but no law enforcement investigation is launched, according to the grand jury.


http://articles.cnn.com/2011-11-07/...port-young-boy-jerry-sandusky/2?_s=PM:JUSTICE

so exactly how is that JOe Pa watering it down again?

 

[leftybuff]

If we're going to get all Biblical and such...Matthew 18: 5-7


[SUP]5[/SUP]And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
[SUP]6[/SUP]But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. [SUP]7[/SUP]Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

God help Sandusky come judgment day.....

 

[Buffarino]

so exactly how is that JOe Pa watering it down again?

Fondling=/=anal sex

Fondling could be misinterpreted. Not much to misinterpret on the latter, though.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

so exactly how is that JOe Pa watering it down again?

agreed. This should have launched every investigative tool at PSU's disposal

 

[JimmyBuff]

Fondling=/=anal sex

Fondling could be misinterpreted. Not much to misinterpret on the latter, though.

Does it matter at that point of the specifics? a grown man is doing something with a 10 year old. I don't think it really matters at that point.



My problem with Paterno is that right there he should have told MM to go to the police.

 

[skibum]

Uh and you know this how?

"He [the grad assistant] saw a naked boy, Victim 2, whose age he estimated to be 10 years old with his hands up against the wall being subjected to anal intercourse"
"The next morning, a Saturday, the graduate student telephoned Paterno and went to Paterno's home, where he reported what he had seen"
"The Grand Jury finds the graduate assistant's testimony to be extremely credible."

"He [Paterno] told Curley that Sandusky had been seen “fondling or doing something of a sexual nature” with a boy in the showers."

I would say Paterno did "water it down" just a tad.

 

[Buffarino]

Does it matter at that point of the specifics? a grown man is doing something with a 10 year old. I don't think it really matters at that point. .

If one is looking for a reason to sweep it under the rug (which they did), then I could see the specifics mattering.

If you're Paterno and you're looking out for your sick ****of a friend, the specifics, as well as how you relay the information, make all the difference in the world. Up until this story broke, JoePa did not have any superiors at PSU, except in title. Now he does, but only because he's in hot water.

 

[JimmyBuff]

If one is looking for a reason to sweep it under the rug (which they did), then I could see the specifics mattering.

If you're Paterno and you're looking out for your sick ****of a friend, the specifics, as well as how you relay the information, make all the difference in the world. Up until this story broke, JoePa did not have any superiors at PSU, except in title. Now he does, but only because he's in hot water.

See I don't think Paterno and Sandusky had a close relationship anymore by 2002.

 

[Buffnik]

From this article I see no reason why Paterno should be help responsible, what paterno said should have been enough for the university to launch a full investigation 10 years ago. Like others have said, JoePa should have gone to the cops, he was morally wrong to not do so, but he is in no way related to the sick ****s that apparently run PSU. He should go, as should the entire administration of Penn State. He should not however be held responsible for the lack of action by his superiors.

You're assuming that the incident wasn't handled in the way Paterno wanted it to be handled.

That's a valid way of seeing it and you may be right.

Taking into consideration Joe Pa's status at PSU, I see it the opposite way. I cannot believe that they acted without Paterno's input or influence. I cannot believe that his feelings on the matter were not considered. To believe that none of the blame falls onto Paterno, I'd have to accept the story that he got a report from his GA, the GA did not give the full account he later gave to the grand jury (and lied to the grand jury) and then Paterno, after bringing it to his superiors, offered no opinion on Sandusky, the GA's story or how he would handle the matter... instead giving a brief statement of his recollection of the GA's story and telling Curley and Schultz that it was in their hands. I can't accept all of that.

So I come to the belief that Paterno downplayed the incident. Motivation may have been that he simply could not believe a man he'd known for 3 decades and been such close friends with could do this. Cognitive dissonance is a very real possibility here. Motivation may have also been that he was more concerned about his program getting a black eye than about the welfare of a child. Honestly, that doesn't sound like Paterno to me.

But it could very well be part of what motivated someone in charge of business and finance (Schultz) or an athletic director. I think it's likely that they were thinking about those things and Paterno downplaying the incident gave them the excuse to treat the incident in the most convenient and expedient way. I don't think Paterno was able to believe that abuse happened, so he rationalized it. His "superiors" accepted the rationalization when they should not have.