NY Times: State Penn planning Paterno´s exit

[Shldr2Shldr]

You're assuming that the incident wasn't handled in the way Paterno wanted it to be handled.

That's a valid way of seeing it and you may be right.

Taking into consideration Joe Pa's status at PSU, I see it the opposite way. I cannot believe that they acted without Paterno's input or influence. I cannot believe that his feelings on the matter were not considered. To believe that none of the blame falls onto Paterno, I'd have to accept the story that he got a report from his GA, the GA did not give the full account he later gave to the grand jury (and lied to the grand jury) and then Paterno, after bringing it to his superiors, offered no opinion on Sandusky, the GA's story or how he would handle the matter... instead giving a brief statement of his recollection of the GA's story and telling Curley and Schultz that it was in their hands. I can't accept all of that.

So I come to the belief that Paterno downplayed the incident. Motivation may have been that he simply could not believe a man he'd known for 3 decades and been such close friends with could do this. Cognitive dissonance is a very real possibility here. Motivation may have also been that he was more concerned about his program getting a black eye than about the welfare of a child. Honestly, that doesn't sound like Paterno to me.

But it could very well be part of what motivated someone in charge of business and finance (Schultz) or an athletic director. I think it's likely that they were thinking about those things and Paterno downplaying the incident gave them the excuse to treat the incident in the most convenient and expedient way. I don't think Paterno was able to believe that abuse happened, so he rationalized it. His "superiors" accepted the rationalization when they should not have.

Even with the watered down/rationalized version that Paterno could have given, the admin at PSU is still legally obligated to report that to the authorities.

 

[Buffarino]

Even with the watered down/rationalized version that Paterno could have given, the admin at PSU is still legally obligated to report that to the authorities.

You and Slade seem to be hung up on the legal aspect of things. Quite frankly, I don't care what they were legally obligated to do. I care about right and wrong.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

You and Slade seem to be hung up on the legal aspect of things. Quite frankly, I don't care what they were legally obligated to do. I care about right and wrong.

I never said Paterno was right, in fact I have said many times in both threads that he was very wrong from a moral stand point. I just dont want to see Paterno looped in with this group of perverts. Because he did was he supposed to, not what he should have done. (I know not a great distinction, but I hope you get the point)

 

[Buffarino]

I never said Paterno was right, in fact I have said many times in both threads that he was very wrong from a moral stand point. I just dont want to see Paterno looped in with this group of perverts. Because he did was he supposed to, not what he should have done. (I know not a great distinction, but I hope you get the point)

Who is the group of perverts? I see one pervert and a group of enablers. Paterno fits in the latter group along with everyone else who knew about this and did nothing.

 

[Buffnik]

Even with the watered down/rationalized version that Paterno could have given, the admin at PSU is still legally obligated to report that to the authorities.

Of course they were.

Did you think I was arguing that Curley and Schultz were good guys or harmless victims here?

**** them.

But their actions didn't happen in a vacuum. Paterno's influence is all over this thing. Very little to do with Penn State is outside Paterno's circle of influence. Nothing to do with Penn State's football program is outside that circle.

Edit: And Sandusky is the only alleged "pervert".

 

[BuffLuke80]

I cant even comment about this because im so disgusted.

 

[Shldr2Shldr]

Of course they were.

Did you think I was arguing that Curley and Schultz were good guys or harmless victims here?

**** them.

But their actions didn't happen in a vacuum. Paterno's influence is all over this thing. Very little to do with Penn State is outside Paterno's circle of influence. Nothing to do with Penn State's football program is outside that circle.

Edit: And Sandusky is the only alleged "pervert".

I thought this scum bag was the AD at this point?
Anyone in the admin that allowed this to continue once reported by Paterno and the GA are in my mind roped in with Sandusky.

I think everyone here is really on the same page but like I said a while ago emotions are kind of clouding some things. Fathers are seeing this through whole thing through blood right now, because of how they would react if this was one of their own children. Paterno is legally innocent in this case and should not be roped in with the others, he however did not uphold his moral obligations. This I dont believe makes him a bad person rather just a human being making a mistake. He should be removed from his post by retirement or by pink slip and he should disappear for a while. He is a great coach and truly one of the greatest football minds to ever play the game. In my mind that should be his legacy, not his moral negligence in this situation.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Of course they were.

Did you think I was arguing that Curley and Schultz were good guys or harmless victims here?

**** them.

But their actions didn't happen in a vacuum. Paterno's influence is all over this thing. Very little to do with Penn State is outside Paterno's circle of influence. Nothing to do with Penn State's football program is outside that circle.

Edit: And Sandusky is the only alleged "pervert".

I worked with a couple professors from Penn State for a few years (2004-2006), I am not sure they would agree with you re: Paterno's "influence" in the University. Over the years in our discussions about Paterno, they admitted Paterno's role in the day-to-day athletic department was pretty small - but his presence in the community was enormous. He was considered by them to be the face of the football program, but not much else. In fact I'm not even sure exactly how much day-to-day control he had on the football program back then.

 

[Buffnik]

I thought this scum bag was the AD at this point?
Anyone in the admin that allowed this to continue once reported by Paterno and the GA are in my mind roped in with Sandusky.

I think everyone here is really on the same page but like I said a while ago emotions are kind of clouding some things. Fathers are seeing this through whole thing through blood right now, because of how they would react if this was one of their own children. Paterno is legally innocent in this case and should not be roped in with the others, he however did not uphold his moral obligations. This I dont believe makes him a bad person rather just a human being making a mistake. He should be removed from his post by retirement or by pink slip and he should disappear for a while. He is a great coach and truly one of the greatest football minds to ever play the game. In my mind that should be his legacy, not his moral negligence in this situation.

I'm not sure we're disagreeing.

The AD was Curley.

The incident happened in the football locker room, was observed and reported by a football graduate assistant to Paterno, and involved a retired Paterno football assistant of over 30 years who was still close to Paterno and the football program.

 

[Buffarino]

I worked with a couple professors from Penn State for a few years (2004-2006), I am not sure they would agree with you re: Paterno's "influence" in the University. Over the years in our discussions about Paterno, they admitted Paterno's role in the day-to-day athletic department was pretty small - but his presence in the community was enormous. He was considered by them to be the face of the football program, but not much else. In fact I'm not even sure exactly how much day-to-day control he had on the football program back then.

Yes, because professors would never minimize the role of a football coach to make themselves feel more important...

 

[Buffnik]

I worked with a couple professors from Penn State for a few years (2004-2006), I am not sure they would agree with you re: Paterno's "influence" in the University. Over the years in our discussions about Paterno, they admitted Paterno's role in the day-to-day athletic department was pretty small - but his presence in the community was enormous. He was considered by them to be the face of the football program, but not much else. In fact I'm not even sure exactly how much day-to-day control he had on the football program back then.

If we're talking about coordination, game planning or recruiting then they are absolutely right. He gave up micromanagement a long time ago. He gave up most management responsibilities within the past decade. He's more of a Chairman than CEO at this point and is far removed from acting as President.

Unfortunately, this was an incident that implicates a guy Paterno had given a lot of day-to-day control to (Sandusky) and trusted implicitly. It was squarely in the wheel house of what he still is involved with and focused on. Sandusky was under the Paterno veil of protection in absence of direct criminal evidence. If Joe Pa said that the incident was just some horsing around that may have resulted in some fondling that may have been accidental contact, then it would end there. In Joe Pa's mind, I actually believe that is all he could fathom actually happened.

One thing that's weird to me in all this is that I haven't seen a report of Paterno asking Sandusky about it. I'd be very surprised if Joe Pa didn't talk to Sandusky to get his account before he brought the incident to the AD.

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

Yes, because professors would never minimize the role of a football coach to make themselves feel more important...

If life has taught me anything, it is that almost anything is possible!

 

[Buffarino]

One thing that's weird to me in all this is that I haven't seen a report of Paterno asking Sandusky about it. I'd be very surprised if Joe Pa didn't talk to Sandusky to get his account before he brought the incident to the AD.

That is a very good point.

 

[SJBuff]

If JoPa stays or goes I dont' really care. Just please, don't let him show up next year on ESPN opposite Lou Holtz. I don't think I can handle two way past their prime and completely out of it ex-coaches providing "insight" on mondern football games. Two guys who were there at the invention of the forward pass is not really what ESPN needs.

 

[Jens1893]

If JoPa stays or goes I dont' really care. Just please, don't let him show up next year on ESPN opposite Lou Holtz. I don't think I can handle two way past their prime and completely out of it ex-coaches providing "insight" on mondern football games. Two guys who were there at the invention of the forward pass is not really what ESPN needs.

I´m fairly certain ESPN gets money from the Notre Dame AD for having Holtz on there. He´s basically a living and walking Notre Dame commercial.

----

Did I hear this right? Mark May is reporting Matt Millen is supposed to be their new AD?

 

[unbiasedtruth]

good read all 22 pages or so.....

http://media.nbcphiladelphia.com/documents/Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf

 

[Buffnik]

I´m fairly certain ESPN gets money from the Notre Dame AD for having Holtz on there. He´s basically a living and walking Notre Dame commercial.

----

Did I hear this right? Mark May is reporting Matt Millen is supposed to be their new AD?

Penn State's gonna be "Wide Receiver U!"

 

[Lt.Col.FrankSlade]

If JoPa stays or goes I dont' really care. Just please, don't let him show up next year on ESPN opposite Lou Holtz. I don't think I can handle two way past their prime and completely out of it ex-coaches providing "insight" on mondern football games. Two guys who were there at the invention of the forward pass is not really what ESPN needs.

I don't think Paterno makes it very long after he retires. It seems that many of these people who work until the very end -- when they stop working -- they end. Andy Rooney quits 60 minutes - dead two weeks later. Charles Schulz stops drawing Peanuts -- dead a month later. When they stop working at what they've been doing for so long, there's just nothing left.

 

[J.R. Ewing]

I don't think Paterno makes it very long after he retires. It seems that many of these people who work until the very end -- when they stop working -- they end. Andy Rooney quits 60 minutes - dead two weeks later. Charles Schulz stops drawing Peanuts -- dead a month later. When they stop working at what they've been doing for so long, there's just nothing left.

That's the first they you said all day that I agree with.

 

[leftybuff]

If JoPa stays or goes I dont' really care. Just please, don't let him show up next year on ESPN opposite Lou Holtz. I don't think I can handle two way past their prime and completely out of it ex-coaches providing "insight" on mondern football games. Two guys who were there at the invention of the forward pass is not really what ESPN needs.

Would you prefer the dimwit formerly know as Hawk Love? Urban Meyer isn't so bad. But I agree Granny Holtz and mouth full of marbles delivery is too much...I just turn the channel. Put JoePa on there and you would have the old man trifecta, Beano Cook and his cascading baker's dozen collection of chins, Granny Holtz sounding like a cross between Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd, and Joe Pa free associating while staring at the camera through coke bottle glasses with lenses large enough to double as sattelite receivers.....

 

[DBT]

I don't think Paterno makes it very long after he retires. It seems that many of these people who work until the very end -- when they stop working -- they end. Andy Rooney quits 60 minutes - dead two weeks later. Charles Schulz stops drawing Peanuts -- dead a month later. When they stop working at what they've been doing for so long, there's just nothing left.

I was just going to post the same thing. Dammit, I need to retire before it gets to be too late!

 

[66BUFF]

..........

 

[The Guest]

Whoa! Stop!

Let's focus on what's been reported, and focus on Joe Paterno's role in it.

--The GA, McQueary (sp?) reported some event to the Head Coach. He claims it was the anal rape version, if I'm not mistaken.

--The Head Coach reported some event to the AD. There's is speculation on this board that Joe Pa presented a watered down account of the event.

--I'd argue it doesn't matter. He may have watered down "forced anal rape on a minor" to "horseplay between an adult naked male in the shower with a naked child in the shower in which genitals might have been inadvertantly grabbed..." Wait...what??!! Is that ever okay? Is that ever legal? But ultimately, if this is how it went down Paterno lied to protect a pedophile friend who likely went on to victimize other children.

--The other option (based on reporting) is that Joe Paterno told the ugly truth about anal rape of a minor in the shower. Fine. But what then? He allowed this criminal to retain association with his program? He allowed him to walk freely on the streets knowing what he'd done? What he might do again? He ignored his obligation as a citizen to protect children from sexual predators?

See my point here? Based on reporting, there's no way the Paterno is free or clear on this. Either way, he compromised the safety of our children by enabling a criminal.

 

[The Guest]

I was just going to post the same thing. Dammit, I need to retire before it gets to be too late!

I'd argue that you shouldn't retire at this point. You know, for your health.

If you do retire, you should at least spend your lunch time in your (former) work place parking lot creeping on the chicks as they walk by.

 

[Burrito]

Whoa! Stop!

Let's focus on what's been reported, and focus on Joe Paterno's role in it.

--The GA, McQueary (sp?) reported some event to the Head Coach. He claims it was the anal rape version, if I'm not mistaken.

--The Head Coach reported some event to the AD. There's is speculation on this board that Joe Pa presented a watered down account of the event.

--I'd argue it doesn't matter. He may have watered down "forced anal rape on a minor" to "horseplay between an adult naked male in the shower with a naked child in the shower in which genitals might have been inadvertantly grabbed..." Wait...what??!! Is that ever okay? Is that ever legal? But ultimately, if this is how it went down Paterno lied to protect a pedophile friend who likely went on to victimize other children.

--The other option (based on reporting) is that Joe Paterno told the ugly truth about anal rape of a minor in the shower. Fine. But what then? He allowed this criminal to retain association with his program? He allowed him to walk freely on the streets knowing what he'd done? What he might do again? He ignored his obligation as a citizen to protect children from sexual predators?

See my point here? Based on reporting, there's no way the Paterno is free or clear on this. Either way, he compromised the safety of our children by enabling a criminal.

Dominus Ominus, Whorodethebus?

 

[Buffarino]

See my point here? Based on reporting, there's no way the Paterno is free or clear on this. Either way, he compromised the safety of our children by enabling a criminal.

That's where I'm sitting as well. There is no way this turns out that Paterno all of a sudden did the right thing. We're not arguing about a crime of commission, it's a crime of omission.