A big problem with this is recruiting.
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Official 2018 Fall Camp Thread
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
Please explain by using Sherman as your illustration.
Buffs1990
Well-Known Member
Whoa....just had a flash back to college lecture
As compared to the RAM OL, we are leaner, but we also seem to struggle more with adding lean muscle mass. This isn't a recruiting thing, it's a S&C thing. They grow quicker in Fort Collins. Must be the water.
Sherman was a highly recruited player with very good talent, however, when you constantly recruit at a low level or utilize projects across a certain position, you thrust more talented players in play even if they aren't physically ready.
WarBuff
Club Member
Animal steroids. Get them from their veterinarian department.
That's not the reason we are lighter at OL in years 3-5, especially with so many greyshirts. I question what is the design. What are we feeding the kids. One of our best friends kid played at WY. The transformation post HS was unbelievable. He played LB in HS and OG there, well above 300 in one year.
Isaac Miller transformed in one year but then actually played lighter from there. Why?
Sherman apparently is now 15 lbs lighter than when he got here. My point .... The here's a trend that is more than recruiting...
When your OL is consistently a weak link, seems like a good place to look at the problem from all angles.
Sure, plenty of things are picked apart and that tends to magnify things which may not be as important as they seem, but the OL seems to have many problems and it unfortunately shows far too often on the field.
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Please explain by using your eyeballs and the past 5 years of OL play
Yeah, it seems to be a trend as well.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I'm not a fan of this rationale. In fact, I think this line of thinking is part of the reason for our inability to get a push pretty much the entire time that MM has been here. I want my O-line averaging at least 305, with the center being the only guy who's maybe less than 300. 6'4" or better and not at least 290 isn't acceptable for a starting P5 lineman, unless you're running the triple option.
Medford M.
Well-Known Member
Actually, they've recruited guys who are already bigger than the guys we recruit on the line the past few years, and in years past, they've almost always had a line full of 4th and 5th year players who didn't even see much time until at least their 3rd year.
cu62nu36
fascist tool
It can take up to 3 years to skinny em down to proper playing weight. It may take the full 5 for Roddick.
chitownbuff
Club Member
What’s the point of having OL pull if all the other OL get pushed back into the pulling OL?
It’s a trend because that’s seemingly how MM wants his OL to be physically, not some issue w our S&C program.
Well, I think your quibbling. The issue is that there is a philosophy that throwing another 20-30 pounds (10% of total body weight) of pure fat is going to do nothing for a guy. That is the way our S&C program is currently implemented.
I personally think the extra weight helps at times and hinders at times.
I've said it many times, but adding the extra 20 pounds of fat that would make y'all happy can be done in weeks with these guys. The legendary Alex Kelley pancake midnight feasts get that done quickly. If these kids weren't on strict controlled diets, they could add that 20 pounds REALLY fast. Pretty much all of them.
This is a separate argument than what you were originally making. You said our S&C program struggles adding lean muscle mass for our OL, while the Rams’ does not. I’m saying that it seems to a philosophical decision by MM to have “lighter” OL that are leaner and more athletic.
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
I've always been physically leaner, so I never quite understood this comment made by Chad Brown that is somewhat germaine to this conversation. Chad once on the Fan said that when he was playing, he didn't want to be below 10% body fat, because late in the games, he felt like he didn't have the energy reserves. I didn't quite get that, because it seems that one could quickly get some boosts of energy while on the sideline. I've never played truly competitive, organized football, so I can't say if body fat is a necessity. However, other football guys on the Fan, such as Big Al, have mentioned that looking like a gym rat doesn't really translate to looking like a football player. I always figured they were talking about front 7 and line play, but they've also mentioned Moreno one year...
So...what say you guys? I never quite got it, because while playing other sports like basketball, no, I do not want body fat. Did having body fat really help you while playing football??? If so, then is HCMM's philosophy on OLine weight would really be out of touch?
So...what say you guys? I never quite got it, because while playing other sports like basketball, no, I do not want body fat. Did having body fat really help you while playing football??? If so, then is HCMM's philosophy on OLine weight would really be out of touch?
Two different points and my Ram point muddied the water. My original point was this was not "recruiting" but philosophical.
Our lightness is not due to recruiting. We could put on extra fat and everyone would think we are bigger and this debate would end. That's the difference here. .
MM doesn't want lighter OL, he wants fit OL. He wants as much muscle mass as they can handle, but would apparently not value extra body fat as most fans do. This is philosophical and certainly open for debate.
My example with CSU simply was to point out it's not "recruiting", and I was taking a backhanded stab at rampant PED use that has been pretty much accepted by most who follow CSU since they hired a coach from Alabama. But that was off point, although, many of us assume it's a big role in this whole debate, nobody wants to open that can of worms. To ignore that in this debate is to ignore 50% of the factors in my guesstimation.
Chad's thinking is not based on modern science. Eat more frequently thru the game dude.
DrunkRalphie
Well-Known Member
Let's start posting pictures of players in their underwear to truly analyze their build.
There is probably a happy medium here. I personally have no problem with the philosophy of trying to keep lineman leaner so they are in better shape but 275 just seems a little too low. I think it worked with Haigler a couple years ago because they rotated him and he didn't get worn down. For me the ideal weight is around 300-305 pounds and the coaches would rather have a 280 lber than a 300 lber with 20 pounds of fat but what is wrong with getting a guy up to 290 so he had a little meat on his bones but it isn't hurting his conditioning?
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Bingo.
Bliff Cranch
Well-Known Member
I’m not a scientist so correct me if I’m wrong but to me this comes down to physics and if you want bodies to move or be moved. HCMM apparently wants OL who can move. Unfortunately, unless his OL is comprised of strong, lean 310+ pound players, they are likely to be moved more easily by opposing players of greater strength and mass. The caveat would be if our OL have superior technique and knowledge of leverage, hand placement, etc. Technique and skill could overcome the mass and energy deficiencies but we’re not there yet with most of our OL.
