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Official CU @ Oregon State Thread - 10/14 2 PM MT on P12-Network

We can’t trade DCs, because Leavitt took the money and ran away from a defense he knew would take a step back while going to a defense that was primed to take a step up.

Why are we still mentioning him as if we had a shot at keeping him? I follow a hottake Buffs fan on twitter and he’s sharing these same takes.
 
SINKRATZ said:
I have no idea, I don't follow Oregon's roster that closely. I would trade coaches in a heartbeat and if we agree on that then I don't understand what this argument is even about.

Schek's standard argument to anyone frustrated with what appears to have been a obvious downgrade at the DC position is that "Oregon's defense sucks this year", but unless you really like Eliot more thank Leavitt, I don't see why that matters.
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“My standard argument”... lol. No. My point has always been that talent matters more than who is calling plays, and that Mac had just as much to do with the 2016 defense as Leavitt. It’s my opinion that the loss of talent from last year, along with the loss of multiple penciled-in starters or regular rotation guys for this year have more to do with the underperformance on defense.
 
TSchekler said:
That doesn’t make the Udoffia starting narrative false and nobody said Julmisse wouldn’t have been a factor. Would Julmisse be better than Wigley as the 3rd CB? I would say yes.
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Yes, Julmisse would be better than Wigley.

I am just saying suspensions and talent issues alone do not explain the current issues. The coaching has been poor as well. I think it is okay to acknowledge Eliot is learning on the job right now and that he needs to be better. And if MacIntyre is this defensive guru we keep hearing about, he needs to step up as well and help the inexperienced guy he hired.
 
TSchekler said:
Lol Oregon has “improved” to giving up 41 ppg in Pac 12 play. When you’re the worst defense in FBS last year, there’s no place to go but up. When you’re one of the top 20 defenses in FBS and lose 8 starters to the NFL, there’s a great chance, you’re going to drop. So again, nice stats, but completely irrelevant.

Btw, I haven’t been leading any kind of narrative that Leavitt is overrated. I’ve given him credit where it’s due, but everybody is crying about Eliot, and pumping up Leavitt, like Leavitt would have this patchwork, under talented defense playing at a high level. It’s laughable.
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I love how you and Buffnik love to make up numbers to bolster you points (pun intended) Oregon is giving up 35.8 points in conference play and last year they gave up 45.3. I get it - MacIntyre walks on water. Fine just be accurate in your analysis.
 
Duff Man said:
Maybe. It points to an extreme lack of depth though. Losing Umu is really THAT big? Not buying it that he was fortifying the depth in the front three and now it is chaos.

McCartney and Falo, that makes more sense why we miss both (McCartney at his best and Falo just in general). The depth has always been shaky.

Injuries and suspensions do not explain away all of even most of the issues IMO. There is not a "glue guy" in the secondary who seems to thrive in the chaos like both Awuzie and Thompson did last year. Just seems a lack of cohesion/communication in general.
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How much of that is three new defensive coaches? Could their be improvements in year two?
 
TSchekler said:
“My standard argument”... lol. No. My point has always been that talent matters more than who is calling plays, and that Mac had just as much to do with the 2016 defense as Leavitt. It’s my opinion that the loss of talent from last year, along with the loss of multiple penciled-in starters or regular rotation guys for this year have more to do with the underperformance on defense.
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You said something to the effect of "why does anyone think Leavitt would have this defense performing any better?" then pointed to Oregon's defense this year as some sort of justification, so I'm asking you who you think is a better DC: Leavitt or Eliot?

If the answer is Leavitt then what are we arguing about? If the answer is Eliot you're a idot.
 
SINKRATZ said:
You said something to the effect of "why does anyone think Leavitt would have this defense performing any better?" then pointed to Oregon's defense this year as some sort of justification, so I'm asking you who you think is a better DC: Leavitt or Eliot?

If the answer is Leavitt then what are we arguing about? If the answer is Eliot you're a idot.
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*an idiot.
 
All of this arguing about comparative stats is ridiculous.

Last years team had 3 DL who ended up in NFL training camps. It had Jimmy Gilbert and KO at LB who ended up with NFL teams. How many of this years front seven will based off this years performance get that opportunity?

We will never know because it is all hypothetical but I am willing to say that this years defense would have been less effective than last years defense even if Leavitt were still here. The DC isn't the one who is allowing the center to push his 3-5 yards off the LOS on a one on one block, last year with Tupou that rarely happened. Sampson and Carroll were also much stouter than who we have now.

The bigger issue is the lack of recruited and developed HS players on the depth chart. We are playing Juco kids because we haven't recruited close to well enough on the DL to stock our depth chart.

Leavitt was not great shakes as a recruiter, he was smart enough to see that those before him weren't either. CU wasn't going to pay him close to what Phil Knight University offered him and he saw what he was going to have to work with here this year.

Before last season a lot of posters on this board were of the opinion that the ceiling on a Mac coached team was 7-8 wins, we got 10.

He certainly gets the benefit of a doubt and the opportunity to show that he can find consistent success. Even if we don't win another game this year (which I don't agree with) he isn't getting fired. It may though be time for RG to push the need to change some of his staff and upgrade recruiting.

The story was we couldn't recruit because we were far behind in facilities and we were a losing program. We no longer can use the facilities excuse and 10 wins last year takes us out of the perennial loser category. Is there evidence that we have seen the level of recruiting step up to the level we need to be consistently successful? Others may feel different but I don't see it, especially in the defensive front seven and at a couple other positions.
 
If I’m building a 3-4, I start with a 300# nose guard. The biggest difference last year, was the return of a legit nose takle. This year our man is a fighter, but undersized. It is a fundamental flaw.
 
onealcd said:
Yeah and we also lost 3 starters/contributors after that so I don’t think it’s that far of a stretch. They should definitely be playing better than they are but some people has too high of expectations.
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So expecting a team to stop somebody - anybody - over a 5 quarter period is asking too much?

I'll say this again because it really is very telling: from halfway through the second quarter against UA until halfway through the third against OSU, the CU defense didn't force a single punt.

Now are you going to tell me that expecting better is unrealistic?
 
MtnBuff said:
Is there evidence that we have seen the level of recruiting step up to the level we need to be consistently successful?
Click to expand...

Refer to the Joe Tumpkin incident as a possible contributing factor as to why there was not a big bounce in recruiting after a 10 win season. Also late defections by defensive staff may have contributed to negative recruiting. We'll never know just how much bounce was absorbed by these issues but there is no denying the fact that recruiting did improve this past year. The bounce has now dissipated. The timing of Joe T's issues surfacing really sucked.

CU has the least talent in the P12 outside of Oregon St. (and that is debatable). Az, ASU, Utah, Cal all have loads more talent than CU. We're seeing the expected results based on our talent level.

Talent and the recruiting of it are vital. Don't know why we are talking Leavitt when he has no track record of recruiting top talent. He does have a good record of motivating NFL talent to successful seasons. Eliot and Leavitt would have similar results coaching CU's defense this year. Leavitt will soon fade away.

Two more wins and a bowl game would sure help recruiting. MM does need to take over the reins of the D (as others have suggested) to try and eke out 2 more. The offense is improving and in good hands with Lindgren.
 
Just read and did not realize osu's garretson was the back-up. CU continues its reign of making backup QB's look like super stars.
 
BuffUp said:
Just read and did not realize osu's garretson was the back-up. CU continues its reign of making backup QB's look like super stars.
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Probably would have been better for us if Luto had played. He's a statue. I think we dodged a bullet that Seth Collins was out because he would have brought in a lot more zone read stuff that could have resulted in big plays in the running game instead of just giving up methodical, long drives.
 
I am not sure MacIntyre calling defensive plays for the first time in almost a decade is a good idea.

cu62nu36 said:
Refer to the Joe Tumpkin incident as a possible contributing factor as to why there was not a big bounce in recruiting after a 10 win season. Also late defections by defensive staff may have contributed to negative recruiting. We'll never know just how much bounce was absorbed by these issues but there is no denying the fact that recruiting did improve this past year. The bounce has now dissipated. The timing of Joe T's issues surfacing really sucked.

CU has the least talent in the P12 outside of Oregon St. (and that is debatable). Az, ASU, Utah, Cal all have loads more talent than CU. We're seeing the expected results based on our talent level.

Talent and the recruiting of it are vital. Don't know why we are talking Leavitt when he has no track record of recruiting top talent. He does have a good record of motivating NFL talent to successful seasons. Eliot and Leavitt would have similar results coaching CU's defense this year. Leavitt will soon fade away.

Two more wins and a bowl game would sure help recruiting. MM does need to take over the reins of the D (as others have suggested) to try and eke out 2 more. The offense is improving and in good hands with Lindgren.
Click to expand...
 
I don't want MacIntyre calling the defensive plays beyond giving general direction at times like he does with the offense (i.e., "commit to the run" or "dial up more pressure").

Where I do want him hands-on is with the game plan and any adjustments he sees need to be made during the game.
 
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