Official CU vs TCU Game Thread - 10/4 @ 5:30 MT on FOX

[Hank]

This is a 5-1, top 25 team if they have above average QB play

I quoted it for you. You can't add "better coaching, better playcalling, better pizza" so that both of your contradictory posts are right. "Which proves my point entirely." LOL.

I like your posts. But come on, you're talking out of your mouth and your asshole at the same time.

 

[#1 pick]

Sorry for all the consecutive posts. I'm working my way through the thread and I have WAY too many important things to say.

The $20mm cap only applies to direct payments from the AD (as I understand it). A $100mm roster would be completely legal if $80mm comes from outside the AD. So it isn't that the cap won't be effective - it's only intended to be a cap on the AD.



Non-paywalled article here:

https://archive.md/0G94c#selection-297.0-297.180

The collective will still be the kings of the room

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

I quoted it for you. You can't add "better coaching, better playcalling, better pizza" so that both of your contradictory posts are right. "Which proves my point entirely." LOL.

I like your posts. But come on, you're talking out of your mouth and your asshole at the same time.

What is contradictory? My point was that $$ isn’t the reason we are where we are this year. Because I attribute where we’re at to QB in one post and then add coaching and playcalling in another isn’t contradictory.

 

[Buffnik]

What is contradictory? My point was that $$ isn’t the reason we are where we are this year. Because I attribute where we’re at to QB in one post and then add coaching and playcalling in another isn’t contradictory.

I agree with you. If we'd hit on the QB, had an OC who has a feel for the college game, and had replaced our LB coach after last season to better stock & coach the position... I think this team is winning 10 this season. None of that is tied to NIL warchest.

 

[skibum]

Understand, but the contribution from donors has to based on market value of services rendered and will be audited. Not sure how $80M in your example would pass muster.

I keep saying this, but it's like no one is paying attention: good luck enforcing that in a court of law. It is *extraordinarily hard* in this country to go into a court of law and *prove* that a transaction with a willing buyer and willing seller did not occur at "market value." It becomes even more difficult when there were multiple bidders for that same "service."

Basically, if a random linebacker gets an offer of $500,000 for signing 10 footballs from a money U donor, and he also has an offer for $450,000 for signing 10 footballs from an oil baron U donor, good ****ing luck convincing any court in the US (any *real court*, not the kangaroo ncaa committee "court" they're setting up) that $500,000 for an 18 year old no one has ever heard of before signing 10 footballs is not "market value." Multiple willing buyers, and a willing seller with a bidding process (open or closed bidding process doesn't actually matter on this) setting the price.

If you haven't noticed, the NCAA can't get anywhere near a courtroom without getting beaten like a rented mule for going on about 10 years now, and this is an issue on which they'll lose so, so badly competent lawyers would be embarrassed to even represent them (way too much case law on market value transactions in this country - we are a capitalism above all else society with the legal system necessary to support that, and this is a core principle).

 

[Buffnik]

I keep saying this, but it's like no one is paying attention: good luck enforcing that in a court of law. It is *extraordinarily hard* in this country to go into a court of law and *prove* that a transaction with a willing buyer and willing seller did not occur at "market value." It becomes even more difficult when there were multiple bidders for that same "service."

Basically, if a random linebacker gets an offer of $500,000 for signing 10 footballs from a money U donor, and he also has an offer for $450,000 for signing 10 footballs from an oil baron U donor, good ****ing luck convincing any court in the US (any *real court*, not the kangaroo ncaa committee "court" they're setting up) that $500,000 for an 18 year old no one has ever heard of before signing 10 footballs is not "market value." Multiple willing buyers/bidders, and a willing seller with a bidding process (open or closed bidding process doesn't actually matter on this) setting the price.

If you haven't noticed, the NCAA can't get anywhere near a courtroom without getting beaten like a rented mule for going on about 10 years now, and this is an issue on which they'll lose so, so badly competent lawyers would be embarrassed to even represent them (way too much case law on market value transactions in this country - we are a capitalism above all else society with the legal system necessary to support that, and this is a core principle).

This is why the only way this ever works, imo, is to have a players union that can collectively bargain on the rules for these issues.

 

[Buffnik]

@skibum - isn't this "market value" something that is used as evidence in a money laundering case? Like if I was a real estate developer who was having trouble selling my condos at $500k but then Russians started jumping in to buy them for $1M apiece?

 

[Hank]

What is contradictory? My point was that $$ isn’t the reason we are where we are this year. Because I attribute where we’re at to QB in one post and then add coaching and playcalling in another isn’t contradictory.

Fine. If your primary point is that we would be better if we had a better quarterback, better coaches, more talented players outside of quarterback, and more money, then I don't disagree with you. At the same time, I don't find that point to be very profound or interesting.

 

[skibum]

@skibum - isn't this "market value" something that is used as evidence in a money laundering case? Like if I was a real estate developer who was having selling my condos at $500k but then Russians started jumping in to buy them for $1M apiece?

Yes - it has applications in criminal law as well as civil. It is more often a component of civil law jurisprudence. Think divorce settlements, contested estates, broken business deal damages, mortgage/asset foreclosures, and, of course the metric **** ton of tax law precedent centered around if a transaction occurred at market value.

Multiple willing buyers with a competitive bidding process is about as air tight of a case as you can possibly have; "but, but, but the ncaa committee on fairness said it wasn't market value" will get laughed out of court.

 

[leftybuff]

Recency bias.

1-11 >>> 4-8 >>> 9-4.

This year hasn't gone as we had hoped, but those are not poor results.

>>>2-4, overall 15-16. That is not good.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

Prime needs to leverage his wealthy relationships. Point blank, period. All the top program coaches are out there fundraising and kissing the booster rings. CU doesn’t have the booster network those programs do but CP wouldn’t kiss the rings even if we did have them. If he doesn’t have the budget other programs do, he needs to take action. He is the driver of this ship, not a passenger.

This is a great take
I would give Prime a 10% commission on booster fun-raising, and a massive bonus if he gets us to a bigger better conference

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Fine. If your primary point is that we would be better if we had a better quarterback, better coaches, more talented players outside of quarterback, and more money, then I don't disagree with you. At the same time, I don't find that point to be very profound or interesting.

If you’re going to chime in, at least follow the conversation and understand what is being discussed.

#1 pick was talking about how CU has a bad recruiting map and Prime doesn’t have the resources to compete for talent. I said the $$ excuse is a cop out because this program has had top 3 recruiting classes in the Big 12 each year under Prime in both HS avg rating and portal rankings. They should be talented enough to beat teams in the Big 12 right now, regardless of the supposed lack of NIL $$$, but they are losing these games because they don’t have a QB who can execute what is being called, and/or they have an OC who isn’t good enough.

So no, my point isn’t that we’d be better if we had more talented players outside of QB or if we had more money. It’s that we have the necessary resources to win in the Big 12 and anybody blaming this season on our supposed lack of NIL $$$ is just making excuses for a poor QB and some bad coaching.

 

[Go Buffs]

I keep saying this, but it's like no one is paying attention: good luck enforcing that in a court of law. It is *extraordinarily hard* in this country to go into a court of law and *prove* that a transaction with a willing buyer and willing seller did not occur at "market value." It becomes even more difficult when there were multiple bidders for that same "service."

Basically, if a random linebacker gets an offer of $500,000 for signing 10 footballs from a money U donor, and he also has an offer for $450,000 for signing 10 footballs from an oil baron U donor, good ****ing luck convincing any court in the US (any *real court*, not the kangaroo ncaa committee "court" they're setting up) that $500,000 for an 18 year old no one has ever heard of before signing 10 footballs is not "market value." Multiple willing buyers, and a willing seller with a bidding process (open or closed bidding process doesn't actually matter on this) setting the price.

If you haven't noticed, the NCAA can't get anywhere near a courtroom without getting beaten like a rented mule for going on about 10 years now, and this is an issue on which they'll lose so, so badly competent lawyers would be embarrassed to even represent them (way too much case law on market value transactions in this country - we are a capitalism above all else society with the legal system necessary to support that, and this is a core principle).

Makes sense. I was simply relaying what CU’s AD told me. Assuming your conclusions are correct, then it appears our AD is clueless.

 

[BUFFset]

I’m going to try this one more time because you’re either not reading what I’m saying or not understanding.

Prime has elevated CU in every way possible. Without him, CU might have been left behind in the Pac 12 (maybe), they’d have no shot at Juju/Seaton/etc and they would be just another mid-lower brand in a second tier conference.

The point im trying to make is that this 2025 team has been constructed by Prime with these so called inferior resources to our conference peers, yet the recruiting rankings suggest we have assembled a top 3 talented roster in the conference based on recruit rankings and avg rating. That means that even if $$$ is an issue to compete nationally with B1G and SEC programs, he has still has what he’s needed to compete for talent at the top of the Big 12.

So if they are a top 3-4 Big 12 program in talent, why can’t we win Big 12 games? We literally out recruit Iowa State, Cincinnati, Kansas State, Houston, Kansas, TCU, Arizona, ASU, yet we are massively struggling to get wins. As I said, I personally attribute most of it to Salter being bad, but the shortcomings of this program in 2025 ultimately have to be attributed to Prime himself as he approved Salter being brought in and he approved Shurmur as OC and Hart as LB coach. Not to mention the recruiting strategy and the fact he doesn’t do visits to close recruits.

In short, the 2025 season failure simply can’t be attributed to lack of $$$. This is on coaching, talent evaluation, roster construction and $$$ allocation.

He won’t understand.

 

[leftybuff]

OK, I'm over losing to BYU. Go beat Iowa State.

Go Buffs.

 

[rosstr]

We didn't spend as much in the portal as half of the Big XII teams this level season. We spent most of our money on HS and two players in the portal. We went bargain bin shopping and the results speak for themselves

Sounds like their strategy didn’t work. And these coaches get paid to build strategies at least decent enough to not get beat up by a commuter school like Houston. And not struggle against powerhouse Delaware and Wyoming.

This is a results-only world. And excuses mean nothing when you may go 3-9 in year three with 1.6 mil of dead money QBs not playing or not playing well.

 

[MCskid]

Sounds like their strategy didn’t work. And these coaches get paid to build strategies at least decent enough to not get beat up by a commuter school like Houston. And not struggle against powerhouse Delaware and Wyoming.

This is a results-only world. And excuses mean nothing when you may go 3-9 in year three with 1.6 mil of dead money QBs not playing or not playing well.

but boulder

 

[MCskid]

Does anyone seriously know or have a good guesstimate at where our nil ranks in the conference? I know 1 pick thinks it’s 16 out of 16 but does that guy really have any solid connections to the program? Other than coach prime signing his nerf football at the mall 25 years ago!

 

[4BienemyTDs]

This is why the only way this ever works, imo, is to have a players union that can collectively bargain on the rules for these issues.

I think there is no rush for something that both helps control the overspending or dirty spending by boosters and the bonus money that is flowing into the players pockets. You have mutual ****ery happening right now because buying players and players getting bigger bags is mutually beneficial unfortunately. This is why there is a chance that a lot of schools just opt to move down if it means they could have a more controlled environment that is feasible versus pure arms races

 

[manhattanbuff]

I agree, which is why I mostly call bull**** on the excuses we see from the Prime fans that CU doesn’t have enough $$$ and it’s really hard to recruit to Boulder, CO. It’s all relative and those two things can be true if we’re talking about competing for a Natty, but we are just talking about winning 4-5 Big 12 conference games and going to a bowl at this point, not competing for the CFP.

We have one of the most talented teams CU’s ever fielded. We’re just bad in key situations. Money is not the issue this year.

 

[4BienemyTDs]

We have one of the most talented teams CU’s ever fielded. We’re just bad in key situations. Money is not the issue this year.

Besides Livingston not having talented enough linebackers and cornerbacks, which is a recruiting thing, the overall team has enough talent to at least win or compete for the Big12 Championship.

I see the problem as a timing issue and an OC issue. We are Senior heavy at a moment of transition, and we were not willing to just prepare and play Juju from the jump, which I think would have been a better story and would result in better results in 2026, 2027, and 2028. 2025 is a lost year because of the roster imbalance, the commitment to getting Salter and have no cohesiveness with Juju, the terrible skills of Shurmur to train and prepare a dynamic offense, and Shurmur's in-game coaching. The number one thing I saw against TCU was his habit of running on 1st Down, every single fukking time. This team is never going to score in the 4-minute drill ever with K Salt and Shurmur, never ever ever.

I wish we would have just played Juju from the first game until now and I actually think we would be at least 3-3, if not 4-2 and if Juju can get us to a bowl at 6-6, the future for the next 3 years is sooooo bright. Right now things are really murky with Prime's health, Shurmur's lack of everything, and what is still a recruiting strategy that is not leaning enough into old fashioned means and methods. I still believe that RG needs to sell his soul to get Prime all the money in the world for the next 3 years because the investment would be well worth it depending on how the final version of realignment goes

 

[#1 pick]

Does anyone seriously know or have a good guesstimate at where our nil ranks in the conference? I know 1 pick thinks it’s 16 out of 16 but does that guy really have any solid connections to the program? Other than coach prime signing his nerf football at the mall 25 years ago!

Our NIL is definitely not 16 for 16 but NIL in this conference is some evenly spread outside of Texas Tech of 2025. Even though we are closer to the bottom than the top, 2-16 isn't a big gap at all. This isn't the ACC where the gap is massive from top teams to middle and bottom teams

 

[ZandiBuff]

 

[GoBuffs08]

We are outcoached every game and somehow the problem is not enough NIL? More money gonna fix that?

This team's inability to make in-game or halftime adjustments is just infuriating. CU has won one second half of the game this year and that was against frickin Delaware

 

[manhattanbuff]

Besides Livingston not having talented enough linebackers and cornerbacks, which is a recruiting thing, the overall team has enough talent to at least win or compete for the Big12 Championship.

I see the problem as a timing issue and an OC issue. We are Senior heavy at a moment of transition, and we were not willing to just prepare and play Juju from the jump, which I think would have been a better story and would result in better results in 2026, 2027, and 2028. 2025 is a lost year because of the roster imbalance, the commitment to getting Salter and have no cohesiveness with Juju, the terrible skills of Shurmur to train and prepare a dynamic offense, and Shurmur's in-game coaching. The number one thing I saw against TCU was his habit of running on 1st Down, every single fukking time. This team is never going to score in the 4-minute drill ever with K Salt and Shurmur, never ever ever.

I wish we would have just played Juju from the first game until now and I actually think we would be at least 3-3, if not 4-2 and if Juju can get us to a bowl at 6-6, the future for the next 3 years is sooooo bright. Right now things are really murky with Prime's health, Shurmur's lack of everything, and what is still a recruiting strategy that is not leaning enough into old fashioned means and methods. I still believe that RG needs to sell his soul to get Prime all the money in the world for the next 3 years because the investment would be well worth it depending on how the final version of realignment goes

The defense has put us in position to win the every game via a game winning drive except for one. JuJu starting the year is revisionist history. In camp, KSalt was the best QB. He just didn’t get it done on the field in the biggest moments.

 

[rosstr]

That post was in response that CU doesn’t have boosters stepping up to fund NIL. It is a cop out excuse as to why we are 2-4 and likely not making a bowl game this year.

Let’s put this to rest. From my source for NIL:

Big12 NIL ranking tiers

Tier 1: Texas Tech
Tier 2: BYU
Tier 3-6: CU and three others.
Tier 7-16: everyone else

Here are the truths as I see it. Prime has done an amazing job at CU. He has elevated recruiting and talent to the top 3 in the Big 12. The media attention alone is loony tunes. No one could do what he’s done here.

Accordingly, CU has stepped up to pay him top 5 college football money, and within its peer group, has accelerated NIL to top 20-40 levels.

But this years’ allocation of NIL/production is abysmal. Salter is a disaster and since Lewis isn’t playing, we have 1.6 mil of NIL dead money on the bench.

Prime leaned on his NFL connections for coaching with tolerable results, but he’s still a losing coach at Colorado. It’s now time to gut the coordinators in favor of college system coordinators. And it’s time to cut losses with Salter and play Lewis. If Lewis doesn’t flash, you freed up an extra 1 million next year for whatever you want to do.

 

[The Alabaster Yak]

Let’s put this to rest. From my source for NIL:

Big12 NIL ranking tiers

Tier 1: Texas Tech
Tier 2: BYU
Tier 3-6: CU and three others.
Tier 7-16: everyone else

Here are the truths as I see it. Prime has done an amazing job at CU. He has elevated recruiting and talent to the top 3 in the Big 12. The media attention alone is loony tunes. No one could do what he’s done here.

Accordingly, CU has stepped up to pay him top 5 college football money, and within its peer group, has accelerated NIL to top 20-40 levels.

But this years’ allocation of NIL/production is abysmal. Salter is a disaster and since Lewis isn’t playing, we have 1.6 mil of NIL dead money on the bench.

Prime leaned on his NFL connections for coaching with tolerable results, but he’s still a losing coach at Colorado. It’s now time to gut the coordinators in favor of college system coordinators. And it’s time to cut losses with Salter and play Lewis. If Lewis doesn’t flash, you freed up an extra 1 million next year for whatever you want to do.

That tracks with my perception as well w/r/t NIL. I disagree about your plan for Juju. Short of him looking like Staub against Houston, he's QB1 next year.

 

[manhattanbuff]

That tracks with my perception as well w/r/t NIL. I disagree about your plan for Juju. Short of him looking like Staub against Houston, he's QB1 next year.

An obscure Buffs “blogger” knows the truth!

 

[rosstr]

That tracks with my perception as well w/r/t NIL. I disagree about your plan for Juju. Short of him looking like Staub against Houston, he's QB1 next year.

Yeah, that’s where I have an outlier opinion I bet. Of course I hope we knock it over the moon with Lewis. We are so due for something like that after the last 30 years.

It just seems foolish to sit him all year 3. What if he doesn’t have it, and you see that plain as day year 4? You sunk year 3, year 4, and 2 mil on the qb guessing game, a position group that billions and billions of dollars in the NFL and college can’t project AT ALL.

If this year is trashed, then you gotta see what Lewis has at the same time.

 

[Bread]

Let’s put this to rest. From my source for NIL:

Big12 NIL ranking tiers

Tier 1: Texas Tech
Tier 2: BYU
Tier 3-6: CU and three others.
Tier 7-16: everyone else

Here are the truths as I see it. Prime has done an amazing job at CU. He has elevated recruiting and talent to the top 3 in the Big 12. The media attention alone is loony tunes. No one could do what he’s done here.

Accordingly, CU has stepped up to pay him top 5 college football money, and within its peer group, has accelerated NIL to top 20-40 levels.

But this years’ allocation of NIL/production is abysmal. Salter is a disaster and since Lewis isn’t playing, we have 1.6 mil of NIL dead money on the bench.

Prime leaned on his NFL connections for coaching with tolerable results, but he’s still a losing coach at Colorado. It’s now time to gut the coordinators in favor of college system coordinators. And it’s time to cut losses with Salter and play Lewis. If Lewis doesn’t flash, you freed up an extra 1 million next year for whatever you want to do.

I'm not even remotely close to out on Livingston. The first few weeks were pretty brutal but he's had the defense playing well enough where a team with even a mediocre QB would win and win relatively easily for 3 of our 4 losses. I think he's fine.