Official CU vs TCU Game Thread - 10/4 @ 5:30 MT on FOX

[Hank]

I keep saying this, but it's like no one is paying attention: good luck enforcing that in a court of law. It is *extraordinarily hard* in this country to go into a court of law and *prove* that a transaction with a willing buyer and willing seller did not occur at "market value." It becomes even more difficult when there were multiple bidders for that same "service."

Basically, if a random linebacker gets an offer of $500,000 for signing 10 footballs from a money U donor, and he also has an offer for $450,000 for signing 10 footballs from an oil baron U donor, good ****ing luck convincing any court in the US (any *real court*, not the kangaroo ncaa committee "court" they're setting up) that $500,000 for an 18 year old no one has ever heard of before signing 10 footballs is not "market value." Multiple willing buyers, and a willing seller with a bidding process (open or closed bidding process doesn't actually matter on this) setting the price.

If you haven't noticed, the NCAA can't get anywhere near a courtroom without getting beaten like a rented mule for going on about 10 years now, and this is an issue on which they'll lose so, so badly competent lawyers would be embarrassed to even represent them (way too much case law on market value transactions in this country - we are a capitalism above all else society with the legal system necessary to support that, and this is a core principle).

There are certain instances where we can try to place a fair market value on certain things. Businesses - we can look at the underlying assets, profit margins, and revenue. Real estate - we can look at comparable sales. Some services - we can look at the compensation of other individuals providing similar services. Happens all the time in tax cases, divorce, etc.

But here - it seems impossible. If other parties are willing to pay the same compensation, as you noted, it's hard to argue that that a college football player is being paid in excess of the fair market value. And you have instances where professional athletes make millions and millions in endorsements. "I thought player X was going to be the next Micah Parsons, or Patrick Mahomes, or LeBron James." Seems totally unworkable to me.

And maybe that's why, in the articles I have read, athletic directors and people close to the industry speak as if there is no cap at all.

 

[rosstr]

I'm not even remotely close to out on Livingston. The first few weeks were pretty brutal but he's had the defense playing well enough where a team with even a mediocre QB would win and win relatively easily for 3 of our 4 losses. I think he's fine.

Livingston’s defense is 12/16th and there is a huge separation from 12th to 11th. It’s a bad defense. He has way more talent than that. I’m out on Livingston.

I’d go shopping for two new coordinators in the offseason.

 

[leftybuff]

Livingston’s defense is 12/16th and there is a huge separation from 12th to 11th. It’s a bad defense. He has way more talent than that. I’m out on Livingston.

I’d go shopping for two new coordinators in the offseason.

I wouldn't shift from Livingston. The O has been a three and out machine. BYU, GT and TCU were all within one score late in the game, well, until CU had to go for it on 4th and forever deep in their own territory to give TCU a short field for a two score win. I don't know what more one can expect when you add in some pretty lackluster talent at LB, and surprisingly, DB.

Livingston may not be a world beater, but IMO he's done enough to get another year.

 

[hawg1]

Livingston’s defense is 12/16th and there is a huge separation from 12th to 11th. It’s a bad defense. He has way more talent than that. I’m out on Livingston.

I’d go shopping for two new coordinators in the offseason.

He does not have the talent he needs to run the 4-2-5 at Star nor ILB. He’s also weak at one corner. And one safety. The stats reflect it. I don’t see the talent.

 

[BlackNGold]

There are a lot of opinions going on here.

I will share some of mine -
CU is pretty much on par with the rest of the Big 12 talentwise in 2025. They are lacking in coaching preparation and are deficient at key spots. I have often said that coaching is 45% recruiting, 45% preparation, and 10% in game adjustments. I think this staff is weak in preparation. I do not think Prime is going to change his approach very much. I think CU under prime is going to always have some great players but maybe not always the best prepared players.

The entire college athletics is in a state of flux and it may take years for it to settle out (if ever). Unfortunately, CU is in the "have not" category in this new age and really is not in a position to get into an arms race (most other schools are in the same boat). I do not think the current model is sustainable for college athletics especially football. Time will tell.

Because CU is in the Big 12 we have some challenges - schools like Minnesota, Purdue (to name a couple) have better finances just because of the conference they are in.

I am not sure we make a bowl game this year (probably not) which is in the unacceptable area for me.

 

[Bread]

Livingston’s defense is 12/16th and there is a huge separation from 12th to 11th. It’s a bad defense. He has way more talent than that. I’m out on Livingston.

I’d go shopping for two new coordinators in the offseason.

Read my post again. The first few weeks were brutal. I'd love to see the stats of the last 3 weeks in comparison to the big 12. If you think 20, 24, and 35 (with three bad turnovers by the offense) aren't good enough to win games, you're going to be sorely disappointed with nearly any defensive coordinator we find.

Also el oh el one good season, one mediocre season that's showing progress as the season continues, and you're already out on him. Delusional.

 

[BuffsRising]

Ahh. I was unaware of the so-called "fair market value" test. That seems completely unworkable. And I would think it throws the $20mm cap further into the crosshairs of antitrust law.

And Im sure that, in true ncaa fashion, that nil deals for blue bloods will be looked at the same way was nil deals for say, CU.

 

[rosstr]

Read my post again. The first few weeks were brutal. I'd love to see the stats of the last 3 weeks in comparison to the big 12. If you think 20, 24, and 35 (with three bad turnovers by the offense) aren't good enough to win games, you're going to be sorely disappointed with nearly any defensive coordinator we find.

Also el oh el one good season, one mediocre season that's showing progress as the season continues, and you're already out on him. Delusional.

You are what your record says you are. That’s reality. Not delusion. Right now he’s a 2-4 coordinator with a bottom third defense. Maybe that’s good enough for you.

 

[MCskid]

Our NIL is definitely not 16 for 16 but NIL in this conference is some evenly spread outside of Texas Tech of 2025. Even though we are closer to the bottom than the top, 2-16 isn't a big gap at all. This isn't the ACC where the gap is massive from top teams to middle and bottom teams

So in other words you don’t have a clue. Got it

 

[MCskid]

Let’s put this to rest. From my source for NIL:

Big12 NIL ranking tiers

Tier 1: Texas Tech
Tier 2: BYU
Tier 3-6: CU and three others.
Tier 7-16: everyone else

Here are the truths as I see it. Prime has done an amazing job at CU. He has elevated recruiting and talent to the top 3 in the Big 12. The media attention alone is loony tunes. No one could do what he’s done here.

Accordingly, CU has stepped up to pay him top 5 college football money, and within its peer group, has accelerated NIL to top 20-40 levels.

But this years’ allocation of NIL/production is abysmal. Salter is a disaster and since Lewis isn’t playing, we have 1.6 mil of NIL dead money on the bench.

Prime leaned on his NFL connections for coaching with tolerable results, but he’s still a losing coach at Colorado. It’s now time to gut the coordinators in favor of college system coordinators. And it’s time to cut losses with Salter and play Lewis. If Lewis doesn’t flash, you freed up an extra 1 million next year for whatever you want to do.

Thanks! This is what I thought it was. 3 straight top 3 recruiting classes so it’s our nil is probably top 3/4.

 

[bldrbbott]

I'm not even remotely close to out on Livingston. The first few weeks were pretty brutal but he's had the defense playing well enough where a team with even a mediocre QB would win and win relatively easily for 3 of our 4 losses. I think he's fine.

i think he's good. lost a bunch of guys to aging out, a few talented ones to the portal, and still is keeping the scoring in check with a do nothing offense and bad time management from the offensive staff. he's a stud.