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Official Non-FBS Thread

PAC MAN

PAC MAN

Tekken Masher.
Club Member
Kansas should beat South Dakota and if they don't, they just should just drop the sport and join the AAC or MVC. USD is the weakest of the four Dakota FCS schools but still good enough to maybe do some damage against a struggling FBS team.

South Dakota State is favored over CSU last time I checked. It has more to do with how good SDSU is and the Jacks are missing their top two QBs from last season and the season before that due to injuries. All CSU has to do is stop the run and they have a shot at the upset in their own home stadium. It sucks to be a csu ram.

Air Force should manhandle Lafayette. Good tune up game for @Navy on 9/11...going to be an emotional day. Game is on Stadium which is free to watch OTA or streaming.

Montana State's new HC is the former OC for Wyoming. UW fans were happy to see him go and even their former QB did pretty good at Idaho State last spring so UW's offensive issues were obviously the OC. It could be due to being constrained by UW HC Craig Bohl, the Nubs DC from 62-36. Despite MSU not playing last spring, some college football pundits have put Wyoming on upset alert. If MSU wins, that could be the beginning of the end of Bohl in Laramie. Game is on the MW Network which should be free online. Wyoming has quite a few games on that plus Stadium...that's what happens when you have about zero value when it comes to media markets.

Montana is going to get beat at Washington since they, like UNC, opted out last spring save for a game or two. Just work out some kinks against the UW second stringers and get out healthy.

Adams State hosts Western New Mexico then travels to Eastern New Mexico. Not sure if the ENMU Greyhounds still run the triple option after their coach retired.

Austin Peay @ Tenn Chattooga, Jackson State-Florida A&M in Miami, and Grambling @ Tenn State are some interesting FCS matchups. Eddie George makes his HC debut for Tenn State. The Prime Time versus Eddie George game is the following weekend on ESPN3.

Potential other FCS upsets over FBS teams this weekend: Houston Baptist @ UNM, Eastern Washington @ UNLV, Holy Cross @ UConn, Monmouth @ MTSU, ETSU @ Vandy, and Central Arkansas @ Arkansas State (would love to see that happen to ruin Food Cart's debut at ASU).
 
Jalapeno said:
For folks like @MtnBuff:

Defending D2 champs pulled off an upset against a FCS school.

Click to expand...

Not a big surprise at all.

I would argue that the top 10-20 D2 schools would be a threat to beat and might even be favored over the bottom 1/3-1/2 of the FCS schools.

We still need to see what they look like with the infusion of new talent against other FCS schools this year but I don't think it would be a stretch to say that Pueblo, Mines, or Mesa all would have had a decent chance to beat UNC most season of the Earnest Collins coaching years.

FCS schools should be a step above D2. They normally get bigger budgets, bigger coaching staffs, and get more scholarships. FBS teams are allowed 85 total scholarships (which can't be split so they can only have 85 players total on scholarship.) FCS schools like UNC are allowed 63 scholarships and are allowed to split them to cover more players but usually don't do this as much as lower level schools.

D2 schools are allowed 36 full scholarships but can split them and usually do split most of them to maximize the number of players they can bring in. The schools that are serious about winning usually have someone on staff who's job it is to match players to academic and/or needs based grants making it possible to be fully paid for even with a partial football scholarship. In some cases they are able to get players fully covered by these sources and not have to use a football scholarship on them. This is by the way how the FCS Ivy league can field teams while saying they give no football scholarships.

The result is that the numbers of available players are not as different as the initial scholarship numbers would imply. A school like Pueblo can sell recruits on winning a lot of games, contending for championships, on the dream of getting a shot in the NFL (Pueblo has more NFL players than some FBS schools,) and an excellent college football experience with strong fan support.

Both Pueblo and Grand Junction have strong ties to and support for their schools. When they brought football back at Pueblo in addition to the community funding all new facilities including the stadium and training facilities that many FCS programs would like to have they also endowed enough money to insure that all 36 football scholarships would be fully funded for the foreseeable future, that fund continues to grow.

In contrast in Greeley in the Collins years it was common for the total number of funded football scholarships to be lower than the 63 limit. IIRC at a couple points they dropped into the high 40s.

As long as I can remember the top schools from one division have compared favorably to the bottom schools of the next division up. You have to consider that some schools want the status of being in a division higher than they are actually willing or able to financially support and other schools enjoying being highly successful and willing to support excellent at a lower level.

Just consider that Nebraska was happy to bring in mighty Fordham this week when nearby North Dakota State would have loved to be playing there instead. Why? Might it be that the fuskers know that the potential for an embarrassing loss is higher than they want to risk.
 
MtnBuff said:
Not a big surprise at all.

I would argue that the top 10-20 D2 schools would be a threat to beat and might even be favored over the bottom 1/3-1/2 of the FCS schools.

We still need to see what they look like with the infusion of new talent against other FCS schools this year but I don't think it would be a stretch to say that Pueblo, Mines, or Mesa all would have had a decent chance to beat UNC most season of the Earnest Collins coaching years.

FCS schools should be a step above D2. They normally get bigger budgets, bigger coaching staffs, and get more scholarships. FBS teams are allowed 85 total scholarships (which can't be split so they can only have 85 players total on scholarship.) FCS schools like UNC are allowed 63 scholarships and are allowed to split them to cover more players but usually don't do this as much as lower level schools.

D2 schools are allowed 36 full scholarships but can split them and usually do split most of them to maximize the number of players they can bring in. The schools that are serious about winning usually have someone on staff who's job it is to match players to academic and/or needs based grants making it possible to be fully paid for even with a partial football scholarship. In some cases they are able to get players fully covered by these sources and not have to use a football scholarship on them. This is by the way how the FCS Ivy league can field teams while saying they give no football scholarships.

The result is that the numbers of available players are not as different as the initial scholarship numbers would imply. A school like Pueblo can sell recruits on winning a lot of games, contending for championships, on the dream of getting a shot in the NFL (Pueblo has more NFL players than some FBS schools,) and an excellent college football experience with strong fan support.

Both Pueblo and Grand Junction have strong ties to and support for their schools. When they brought football back at Pueblo in addition to the community funding all new facilities including the stadium and training facilities that many FCS programs would like to have they also endowed enough money to insure that all 36 football scholarships would be fully funded for the foreseeable future, that fund continues to grow.

In contrast in Greeley in the Collins years it was common for the total number of funded football scholarships to be lower than the 63 limit. IIRC at a couple points they dropped into the high 40s.

As long as I can remember the top schools from one division have compared favorably to the bottom schools of the next division up. You have to consider that some schools want the status of being in a division higher than they are actually willing or able to financially support and other schools enjoying being highly successful and willing to support excellent at a lower level.

Just consider that ****braska was happy to bring in mighty Fordham this week when nearby North Dakota State would have loved to be playing there instead. Why? Might it be that the ****ers know that the potential for an embarrassing loss is higher than they want to risk.
Click to expand...

McNeese State is not one of those schools that you would put a bottom feeder status and they have a history of making the FCS playoffs so that was a very good win for West Florida. I recall then D2 UNC giving Montana a game in Missoula so it wouldn't surprise me if CSU Pueblo & Mines could compete against some Big Sky, WAC, and MVFC schools out there...not sure about the Southland due to their explosive offenses and that is why West Florida's win was impressive to me. I think the strongest D2 teams could take down the weaker FBS teams out there. I'd hate to see where CSU would rank within the state if you include both D1 and D2 schools. You say 36 scholarships..I think that would be enough to beat the likes of CSU and Wyoming.

The good news is that CSUP and C-Mines will continue to be strong for years to come because they simply do not have the enrollment numbers to merit consideration for a move to FCS so they can continue to build on that success. Colorado Mesa is the only current RMAC school that could merit such a move and they were mentioned as some of the D2 schools with the likes of Texas A&M who were once D1 as making the move to the WAC. Given Grand Junction's proximity to Utah and those Big Sky & WAC schools in that state plus NAU & Idaho State, I think CMU will ultimately make that move down the road especially after the Glenwood Canyon I-70 closures which will push the western slope closer to Utah than this state.

I think UNC was told to fully fund 63 scholarships or they would be no longer in the Big Sky Conference. I think that reputation of underfunding football has hurt their recruiting efforts because that is something that would have been known by rival coaches. But this new transfer rule and NIL stuff could be a game changer for UNC football just like I think it will be for CU football. The school is paying for those scholarships because the untold cost of losing association with those Big Sky schools would be significant plus they want to be the only FCS school in the state. Sometimes you just have to pay to keep your status even if you are going to lose money or not be as competitive as you'd like to be athletically. That is how broken the business of college athletics can be and when millions of dollars of research funding can be taken away for not being part of a level or conference.

I will dip my toes into the D2 pool this year namely the RMAC and Lone Star Conference...maybe the MIAA before going all in as soon as next year. I see that C-Mines is going to play at West Texas A&M which my mother graduated from and has a bison nickname so I'll check that one out. C-Mines and CSUP play on November 6th. I think I'm going to also follow C-Mesa, Adams State, and Chadron State in addition to those two.

As for Nebraska, it is very obvious they are avoiding NDSU but they have SDSU later this decade and SDSU is on a very equal footing as NDSU. Nebraska is going to have to face that reality even without playing NDSU. UND will not let NDSU have all the fun within North Dakota so that is three Dakota schools who can make even a decent Nebraska team nervous.
 
Jalapeno said:
McNeese State is not one of those schools that you would put a bottom feeder status and they have a history of making the FCS playoffs so that was a very good win for West Florida. I recall then D2 UNC giving Montana a game in Missoula so it wouldn't surprise me if CSU Pueblo & Mines could compete against some Big Sky, WAC, and MVFC schools out there...not sure about the Southland due to their explosive offenses and that is why West Florida's win was impressive to me. I think the strongest D2 teams could take down the weaker FBS teams out there. I'd hate to see where CSU would rank within the state if you include both D1 and D2 schools. You say 36 scholarships..I think that would be enough to beat the likes of CSU and Wyoming.

The good news is that CSUP and C-Mines will continue to be strong for years to come because they simply do not have the enrollment numbers to merit consideration for a move to FCS so they can continue to build on that success. Colorado Mesa is the only current RMAC school that could merit such a move and they were mentioned as some of the D2 schools with the likes of Texas A&M who were once D1 as making the move to the WAC. Given Grand Junction's proximity to Utah and those Big Sky & WAC schools in that state plus NAU & Idaho State, I think CMU will ultimately make that move down the road especially after the Glenwood Canyon I-70 closures which will push the western slope closer to Utah than this state.

I think UNC was told to fully fund 63 scholarships or they would be no longer in the Big Sky Conference. I think that reputation of underfunding football has hurt their recruiting efforts because that is something that would have been known by rival coaches. But this new transfer rule and NIL stuff could be a game changer for UNC football just like I think it will be for CU football. The school is paying for those scholarships because the untold cost of losing association with those Big Sky schools would be significant plus they want to be the only FCS school in the state. Sometimes you just have to pay to keep your status even if you are going to lose money or not be as competitive as you'd like to be athletically. That is how broken the business of college athletics can be and when millions of dollars of research funding can be taken away for not being part of a level or conference.

I will dip my toes into the D2 pool this year namely the RMAC and Lone Star Conference...maybe the MIAA before going all in as soon as next year. I see that C-Mines is going to play at West Texas A&M which my mother graduated from and has a bison nickname so I'll check that one out. C-Mines and CSUP play on November 6th. I think I'm going to also follow C-Mesa, Adams State, and Chadron State in addition to those two.

As for ****braska, it is very obvious they are avoiding NDSU but they have SDSU later this decade and SDSU is on a very equal footing as NDSU. ****braska is going to have to face that reality even without playing NDSU. UND will not let NDSU have all the fun within North Dakota so that is three Dakota schools who can make even a decent ****braska team nervous.
Click to expand...
Nebraska scheduled SDSU before they took the recent steps up in quality. Nebraska is always looking to pad the schedule with easy wins but as we have seen recently sometimes it doesn't work out. Yes they are afraid of NDSU.

I don't see Mesa moving up nor do I see Pueblo or Mines having any interest. They have seen that they can have very successful programs at D2 without adding the extra cost associated with going FCS.

The UNC experience has been an eye opener for many. They were very successful at D2 (in part because they had a dynamic coach in Joe Glenn) and the move up to FCS has not been a positive for them. They haven't produced a boost in attendance, they haven't generated a boost in attention and publicity, and they have had significantly higher cost with travel and extra coaching and administrative cost as well as the additional scholarships. The only real positive for them was some brief basketball success under Tad but since he left that has been a struggle.

Meanwhile the D2 schools get the positive in state publicity of winning, have natural rivalries, and can control their operational expenses much more effectively.

As to the talent comparisons between D2 and FCS the differences between the better D2 schools and the average or below FCS school aren't that great at the top of the depth charts. Where you see the differences is in the depth of the rosters.

Schools like Pueblo, Mines, Mesa, etc. on a single game basis would compete very well against a lot of FCS programs. They would probably struggle a lot though if faced with a season of games because of the depth.

If the NCAA were to allow FBS teams to schedule a spring scrimmage against a lower division school from their region I would rather CU schedule Pueblo than UNC. Until this year Pueblo had more top level players (guys with the ability to play at a G5/P5 level) than UNC and going against a Wristen coached team would make CU players work mentally and fundamentally as well.
 
Doing those conference rankings for the FCS for every conference was more work than I'd imagined so I am going to just do the ASUN-WAC (AQ7), Big Sky, and the MVFC rankings going forward. Any schools outside of those conferences will be mentioned in posts.

Big Sky Conference

1. Montana
2. UC Davis
3. Weber State
4. Eastern Washington
5. Montana State
6. Portland State
7. Idaho
8. Idaho State
9. Sacramento State
10. Northern Arizona
11. Southern Utah
12. Northern Colorado
13. Cal Poly

ASUN-WAC

1. Sam Houston State
2. Central Arkansas
3. Jacksonville State
4. Stephen F. Austin
5. Eastern Kentucky
6. Dixie State
7. Lamar
8. Tarlenton State


Missouri Valley Football Conference

1. SDSU
2. NDSU
3. North Dakota
4. Southern Illinois
5. Northern Iowa
6. Missouri State
7. Illinois State
8. Youngstown State
9. Western Illinois
10. South Dakota
11. Indiana State

I will take a stab at the RMAC and Lone Star Conference rankings later this season once I watch some games and get a better feel for those teams AND if I have the energy to do so.
 
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MtnBuff said:
The UNC experience has been an eye opener for many. They were very successful at D2 (in part because they had a dynamic coach in Joe Glenn) and the move up to FCS has not been a positive for them. They haven't produced a boost in attendance, they haven't generated a boost in attention and publicity, and they have had significantly higher cost with travel and extra coaching and administrative cost as well as the additional scholarships. The only real positive for them was some brief basketball success under Tad but since he left that has been a struggle.

Meanwhile the D2 schools get the positive in state publicity of winning, have natural rivalries, and can control their operational expenses much more effectively.

As to the talent comparisons between D2 and FCS the differences between the better D2 schools and the average or below FCS school aren't that great at the top of the depth charts. Where you see the differences is in the depth of the rosters.

Schools like Pueblo, Mines, Mesa, etc. on a single game basis would compete very well against a lot of FCS programs. They would probably struggle a lot though if faced with a season of games because of the depth.

If the NCAA were to allow FBS teams to schedule a spring scrimmage against a lower division school from their region I would rather CU schedule Pueblo than UNC. Until this year Pueblo had more top level players (guys with the ability to play at a G5/P5 level) than UNC and going against a Wristen coached team would make CU players work mentally and fundamentally as well.
Click to expand...

I don't recall who UNC had as a rival in the old D2 North Central Conference and even if I said that UNC is most likely staying D1, I would love to see them back in D2 and the RMAC since they'd have some natural rivalries and build up college sports in Colorado even if it has to be at the D2 level. That is why I'm one to bring up the idea of CU being in the same athletic conference as CSU but I'm starting to move on from that & it's disappointing since I'm far more of a college sports guy than a professional sports guy. UNC is getting my full attention this year thanks to ESPN+ and I'm going to see all the issues with that Bears AD pretty soon. I'm still intrigued about Ed McCaffrey regardless of how many people either love him or hate him here.

I'd love to see CU have those type of scrimmages against CSU-P and the Mines just for the fun of it. I look forward to having more D2/RMAC talk in your weekly threads down the road.
 
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Awkward Season 2 GIF by Friends
 


Same MVC beat writer brought up UNC to Summit. If the MVC was to add Murray State just like he wants to, that would give the MVC enough football playing schools to put an end to the MVFC which could force the Summit to go after UNC or another school. If UNC goes to the Summit and the Summit decides to sponsor football, the MVC could be forced to act.

Keep an eye on James Madison as a FCS school that could move up to FBS.

FCS conferences must have six schools to have an AQ for the FCS playoffs.
 
Today was just pure garbage with the Buffs laying a massive turd and UNC losing in OT. UNC has a kicker with a leg as he booted a 57 yard FG to get UNC ahead 10-7 before Lamar sent the game to OT.

I watched the Ft. Lewis-Tarlenton game last week and what Mines did to them today was impressive.

I might just watch Eastern Washington-Western Illinois on demand since EWU won the game 62-56.

As for next weekend’s games:

Northern Arizona @ UNC
Mines at West Texas A&M
Pueblo @ SD Mines
 
In addition to the games above, there are some good FCS games out there:

Illinois State at Southern Illinois.
East Tennessee State at Samford.
Sam Houston State at Central Arkansas.
UC Davis at Weber State.
South Dakota at Missouri State.

Next week's FCS menu will be better. One Big Sky game was bumped up to ESPN2.
 
Realignment talk is starting to creep down into the D2 ranks. Lone Star Conference could be impacted and could be done as a football conference.



Dave Campbell's Texas Football even said that D2 football as we know it could be on its way out but that could be a hot take. West Texas A&M has been long rumored for a D1 move and Angelo State is another school that could decided to go D1. Both have built new stadiums in the last decade and no longer use the local high school football stadiums for their home games.

www.texasfootball.com

Hot Take Tuesday: Why DII football could be on the way out

Tarleton has already moved to Division I in football, but they won't be the last small college in Texas to move. Who is next? The Division II powerhouse Lone Star Conference suddenly looks pretty appetizing.
www.texasfootball.com

It seems like the Ohio Valley Conference is dying and schools are starting to bail on that conference. That could lead to the end of the MVFC because both the Summit and MVC would have enough football playing schools to have their own conferences. FCS requires six schools at a minimum for AQ status to the FCS playoffs while FBS requires eight schools minimum. UNC to the Summit rumors are still out there and could be used to allow the Summit to have its own football conference with the four Dakota schools just like in their D2 days.

www.midmajormadness.com

REPORT: Belmont is headed to the Missouri Valley Conference

The Bruins are leaving the Ohio Valley Conference for a shot at Arch Madness
www.midmajormadness.com www.midmajormadness.com

Murray State is said to be sending out feelers to the MVC.
 
Next week:

UNC goes to Montana State.

Battle of Piney Woods (Sam Houston State vs SFA in Houston)

North Dakota State at North Dakota.

Montana at EWU on ESPN2 if you want your eyes to bleed from seeing that red EWU turf field.

1632639475610.jpeg

CSU Pueblo hosts Colorado Mesa & Mines hosts Western Colorado.
 
Yeah, EWU turf is brutal on the eyes and was such a bad idea. The only non-green turf that’s cool is the light purple of Central Arkansas….
 
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