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Pac-12 Network is restructuring

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
It's only a matter of time before Amazon or Google or YouTube, etc get in on some kind of sports streaming package, right? The NFL will be looking for a new partner for the $1.5B package. If DTV bails on Sunday Ticket, their value for individual households goes down, but more importantly, the bars/restaurants that subscribe specifically for Sunday Ticket have no more use for DTV.
 

Boulder

Active Member
It's only a matter of time before Amazon or Google or YouTube, etc get in on some kind of sports streaming package, right? The NFL will be looking for a new partner for the $1.5B package. If DTV bails on Sunday Ticket, their value for individual households goes down, but more importantly, the bars/restaurants that subscribe specifically for Sunday Ticket have no more use for DTV.
The best move for the NFL is making Sunday Ticket it’s own streaming service. Sacrifice profits for a few years, build the infrastructure yourself, and then if you want to partner up let bidding begin. You have a guaranteed set of subscribers and by doing it yourself you are not at the whim of a middleman. If we are talking about sports building sports streaming then honestly it makes sense for the various conference networks to go to an Amazon together and offer to all go over at once.
 

BlackNGold

Club Member
The Directv and NFL Sunday ticket deal reminds me of when Apple had an exclusive deal with AT&T for the iPhone. It absolutely made no sense for Apple to limit their distribution. As soon as they ended that deal their iPhone sales skyrocketed.

One thing that makes the NFL(and other major sports) so valuable is that people watch most the games in real time so they are exposed to the commercials. Commercial time on the national broadcasts go for about $550,000 for a 30 second broadcast. NFL wants to be careful of a streaming service that reduces the # of eyeballs and potentially reduces advertising revenue.
 

CarolinaBuff

Club Member
Club Member
The Directv and NFL Sunday ticket deal reminds me of when Apple had an exclusive deal with AT&T for the iPhone. It absolutely made no sense for Apple to limit their distribution. As soon as they ended that deal their iPhone sales skyrocketed.

One thing that makes the NFL(and other major sports) so valuable is that people watch most the games in real time so they are exposed to the commercials. Commercial time on the national broadcasts go for about $550,000 for a 30 second broadcast. NFL wants to be careful of a streaming service that reduces the # of eyeballs and potentially reduces advertising revenue.
The NFL should go to a model where they pull in multiple networks and make every game available on one network or another. It seems like they could increase Sunday afternoon viewership immensely. I realize the owners would be fully against this because right now their local markets are protected but in the end they've be in favor of anything that puts more money in their pockets.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
With a choice of game time slots, the geniuses at the Pac-12 decided that a 12:30 kickoff in Tempe next weekend was a good idea. Not like it might be hot there or anything.
 

Shldr2Shldr

Club Member
Club Member
With a choice of game time slots, the geniuses at the Pac-12 decided that a 12:30 kickoff in Tempe next weekend was a good idea. Not like it might be hot there or anything.
Game will likely be over before the hottest part of the day, but 90 at kickoff, with temps climbing... not the smartest move.
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
With a choice of game time slots, the geniuses at the Pac-12 decided that a 12:30 kickoff in Tempe next weekend was a good idea. Not like it might be hot there or anything.
Not the best idea, but probably good from a ratings standpoint.
 

MiamiBuffs

Wᴉɐɯᴉ qnɟɟs
Club Member
With a choice of game time slots, the geniuses at the Pac-12 decided that a 12:30 kickoff in Tempe next weekend was a good idea. Not like it might be hot there or anything.
True. 3pm would have been much more considerate...
Screen Shot 2019-10-01 at 8.24.39 AM.png
 

Jens1893

Moderator
Club Member
Junta Member
Looking forward to the day those deals go down in value. Should be soon yeah?
It's already started. The Premier League had problems shifting one package for the intended price and only sold their entire domestic TV rights for more than in the previous deal because they sold more games, but the per game amount Sky paid was down. Overall money was still way up because of the amount they sold their rights for internationally, but I do think that was a warning sign.
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
The NFL should go to a model where they pull in multiple networks and make every game available on one network or another. It seems like they could increase Sunday afternoon viewership immensely. I realize the owners would be fully against this because right now their local markets are protected but in the end they've be in favor of anything that puts more money in their pockets.
I'd like to see the NFL go to the college model of having games kick off at all different times throughout the day on different networks. On a given Sunday, when there are 12-14 games on Sunday (1 TNF, 1 MNF, and 2-4 teams on Byes), I'd like to see 3-4 games kick off at each of these Mountain Time slots of 10am, 1pm, 4pm and then SNF at 7pm. Get ABC/ESPN involved and just saturate the entire day with only a few games happening at the same time.

College football Saturdays are easily the best day of the week because of this, and I don't understand why the NFL doesn't figure out the network deals/ad revenue to follow suit.
 

ChillyBuff

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see the NFL go to the college model of having games kick off at all different times throughout the day on different networks. On a given Sunday, when there are 12-14 games on Sunday (1 TNF, 1 MNF, and 2-4 teams on Byes), I'd like to see 3-4 games kick off at each of these Mountain Time slots of 10am, 1pm, 4pm and then SNF at 7pm. Get ABC/ESPN involved and just saturate the entire day with only a few games happening at the same time.

College football Saturdays are easily the best day of the week because of this, and I don't understand why the NFL doesn't figure out the network deals/ad revenue to follow suit.
Wasn't that the point of them offering Sunday ticket? So you could watch whatever game you wanted? All you had to do was subscribe to the right provider.
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
Wasn't that the point of them offering Sunday ticket? So you could watch whatever game you wanted? All you had to do was subscribe to the right provider.
The point of Sunday Ticket was for out of market fans to be able to watch their team, and sure, so the die hard NFL fans could watch whatever game they want. Only having two time slots for 12-14+ games during the day is lame. Most of the country only gets to see 2 of those games if they are watching from start to finish. Open up more time slots and add another network to the mix and put 3-4 games on at 3 different time slots that everybody can watch. Again, just follow the CFB model.
 
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BerkeleyBuff

Club Member
Club Member
Wasn't that the point of them offering Sunday ticket? So you could watch whatever game you wanted? All you had to do was subscribe to the right provider.
I thought the point of Sunday ticket was to allow fans to watch their team no matter where they lived. I think what TS is saying is he'd like games to be more spaced out so he could catch more of them. With Sunday Ticket (which is indeed awesome), you're still choosing one game at each of the two time slots.
 

ChillyBuff

Well-Known Member
The point of Sunday Ticket was for out of market fans to be able to watch their team, and sure, so the die hard NFL fans could watch whatever game they want. Only having two time slots for 12-14+ games during the day is lame. Most of the country only gets to see 2 of those games if they are watching from start to finish. Open up more time slots and add another network to the mix and put 3-4 games on at 3 different time slots that everybody can watch. Again, just follow the CFB model.
Ah I see what you're saying. I keyed off the wrong statement. And yes, I agree with your argument. Can you record different games on Sunday Ticket to watch later?
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
Ah I see what you're saying. I keyed off the wrong statement. And yes, I agree with your argument. Can you record different games on Sunday Ticket to watch later?
Not sure, I've never had Sunday Ticket. I'm sure there is a reason why they do what they do, but I just find it hard to believe that they couldn't be more profitable than they currently are by exposing more games to more people.
 

skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
Not sure, I've never had Sunday Ticket. I'm sure there is a reason why they do what they do, but I just find it hard to believe that they couldn't be more profitable than they currently are by exposing more games to more people.
The NFL play for years was to create scarcity.

There were 4 major networks: create three packages making sure one was always the odd man out. If you look at the network ratings yoy during that time period, there was a direct correlation with carrying one of those packages. Interestingly, a network's other shows would get a boost too (why do you think about 1/3 of the ads you see are plugging other shows on the network?).

CBS' slide in the aughts and subsequent rebound had a direct relationship to them losing and regaining the NFL. They lose money on the NFL contract (it costs more to pay the NFL and produce the telecasts than they get in advertising revenue) - but they get a larger audience for their other shows, so on net they win.

The NFL returned to the same idea with Sunday Ticket: create scarcity by only allowing one carrier. The idea was that the carrier would pay more than they would collect from subscribers for that package because those subscribers also buy other content.

And it was true: dtv paid the NFL more than they ever took in for Sunday Ticket subscriptions. But dtv also had /has a much bigger subscriber base as a result: which gave them a bigger dick to swing when they negotiated with other content providers (including the P12).

The NFL has definitely generated more revenue, not less by creating scarcity around their product.
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
The NFL play for years was to create scarcity.

There were 4 major networks: create three packages making sure one was always the odd man out. If you look at the network ratings yoy during that time period, there was a direct correlation with carrying one of those packages. Interestingly, a network's other shows would get a boost too (why do you think about 1/3 of the ads you see are plugging other shows on the network?).

CBS' slide in the aughts and subsequent rebound had a direct relationship to them losing and regaining the NFL. They lose money on the NFL contract (it costs more to pay the NFL and produce the telecasts than they get in advertising revenue) - but they get a larger audience for their other shows, so on net they win.

The NFL returned to the same idea with Sunday Ticket: create scarcity by only allowing one carrier. The idea was that the carrier would pay more than they would collect from subscribers for that package because those subscribers also buy other content.

And it was true: dtv paid the NFL more than they ever took in for Sunday Ticket subscriptions. But dtv also had /has a much bigger subscriber base as a result: which gave them a bigger dick to swing when they negotiated with other content providers (including the P12).

The NFL has definitely generated more revenue, not less by creating scarcity around their product.
Oh the NFL knows what they’re doing, I just want them to do what I said because it would be amazing as a fan. Then again, the NFL’s #1 priority has never been then fans.
 

Highlander

There can be only one
Club Member
The NFL play for years was to create scarcity.

There were 4 major networks: create three packages making sure one was always the odd man out. If you look at the network ratings yoy during that time period, there was a direct correlation with carrying one of those packages. Interestingly, a network's other shows would get a boost too (why do you think about 1/3 of the ads you see are plugging other shows on the network?).

CBS' slide in the aughts and subsequent rebound had a direct relationship to them losing and regaining the NFL. They lose money on the NFL contract (it costs more to pay the NFL and produce the telecasts than they get in advertising revenue) - but they get a larger audience for their other shows, so on net they win.

The NFL returned to the same idea with Sunday Ticket: create scarcity by only allowing one carrier. The idea was that the carrier would pay more than they would collect from subscribers for that package because those subscribers also buy other content.

And it was true: dtv paid the NFL more than they ever took in for Sunday Ticket subscriptions. But dtv also had /has a much bigger subscriber base as a result: which gave them a bigger dick to swing when they negotiated with other content providers (including the P12).

The NFL has definitely generated more revenue, not less by creating scarcity around their product.
I agree with every word you wrote.

Creating scarcity between CBS, NBC, ABC, and Fox is different than being unable to get in to markets via cable, satellite, and OTP providers at all via the Pac 12 network because of how the negotiations unfolded creating the lowest set price for all scenario.
 

CarolinaBuff

Club Member
Club Member
The NFL play for years was to create scarcity.

There were 4 major networks: create three packages making sure one was always the odd man out. If you look at the network ratings yoy during that time period, there was a direct correlation with carrying one of those packages. Interestingly, a network's other shows would get a boost too (why do you think about 1/3 of the ads you see are plugging other shows on the network?).

CBS' slide in the aughts and subsequent rebound had a direct relationship to them losing and regaining the NFL. They lose money on the NFL contract (it costs more to pay the NFL and produce the telecasts than they get in advertising revenue) - but they get a larger audience for their other shows, so on net they win.

The NFL returned to the same idea with Sunday Ticket: create scarcity by only allowing one carrier. The idea was that the carrier would pay more than they would collect from subscribers for that package because those subscribers also buy other content.

And it was true: dtv paid the NFL more than they ever took in for Sunday Ticket subscriptions. But dtv also had /has a much bigger subscriber base as a result: which gave them a bigger dick to swing when they negotiated with other content providers (including the P12).

The NFL has definitely generated more revenue, not less by creating scarcity around their product.
But now they've gone from scarcity to over-saturation with the Sunday night games and now Thursday night games for the whole season. But if they want to maxmiize their revenue, and we all know they do, then they could make all the 1pm and 4pm games available but open it up to all networks. Between CBS, CBSSN, NBC, NBCSN, ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, Fox, FS1 they could make every game national. Maybe get another network like TNT or TBS involved when there's 10 games in the 1pm timeslot.

And I didn't even think about the idea that TS brought up which was to utilize 4 timeslots on Sunday just like college does on Saturday. That way they could put 1 or 2 west coast games on at 9:30 or 10pm EST and the Sunday night marquee game could start a little earlier like at 7pm so it would be easier for most of the country to see the whole game.
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
But now they've gone from scarcity to over-saturation with the Sunday night games and now Thursday night games for the whole season. But if they want to maxmiize their revenue, and we all know they do, then they could make all the 1pm and 4pm games available but open it up to all networks. Between CBS, CBSSN, NBC, NBCSN, ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, Fox, FS1 they could make every game national. Maybe get another network like TNT or TBS involved when there's 10 games in the 1pm timeslot.

And I didn't even think about the idea that TS brought up which was to utilize 4 timeslots on Sunday just like college does on Saturday. That way they could put 1 or 2 west coast games on at 9:30 or 10pm EST and the Sunday night marquee game could start a little earlier like at 7pm so it would be easier for most of the country to see the whole game.
Exactly. Figure out a way to monetize every game being able to be viewed in every market. The fact that the NFL doesn’t allow fans to watch any game they want to, short of subscribing to Sunday Ticket is mind blowing. They are limiting their own exposure because DTV paid them a huge amount. They could be forcing every network out there to bid against each other for every day game.
 
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