****Pac-12 Will NOT expand*** per espn and wilner

[Darth Snow]

That was the very basic question at the heart of this. Do you team up with cable providers/Dish/DTV to take care of distribution first and care about programming later or do you team up with a TV channel like Fox or ESPN and care about the distribution later? The Pac chose Option 1, UT and the B1G chose option 2.

As did UT. And Larry Scott knows a LOT more about TV than any other party, hell, he hired the guy that set up the B1G network! Basically, he is betting on the Pac12N kicking serious ass compared to the LHN.

Given that situation, smart money is on LS.

 

[absinthe]

I agree with sentence one. When I first came to this board, I think some of you guys doubted the sincerity of the conference's motives regarding expansion. I think now everyone understands that "equality" isn't just a spiffy motto for this conference.

As far as the 2nd sentence, that's just the current status. However with the Pac no longer moving wholescale into the Texas recruit market and BigEast neutered (possibly even eliminated if TCU is added to the B12), Texass can go into defensive turtle mode for a number of years. But I wouldn't say it would "never" agree to equal revenue sharing. If P12 regional channel revenue exceeds LHN revenue, Texass will change its tune. I think that's Larry's long run plan in bringing Texass to heel.

Ultimately I think you are right.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

I remember Phoenix in the 80s. You still had people riding their horses into Scottsdale from the surrounding ranches. The boon there has been amazing. But you also were seeing the beginnings of a major shift with a lot of Californians starting to migrate there. Less so with Tucson.

As an aside, I don't think most people realize what Lute Olson accomplished at UA since they don't have the context of what Tucson was as a city when he showed up.

Close to my memories as well. Got delayed going to work one day when a herder decided to move his flock of sheep across the street to another field -- in northwest Phoenix. I know, my boss didn't believe me either.

There was more of a conservative current when I lived there; lot's of retirees and people who had moved to the desert SW for health reasons (didn't they realize that that the pollen from the stone ages was still circulating due to the lack of rain?). I kinda see a similarity between Phoenix, mainly, and Colorado with all the transplant residents from other parts of the country.

And yes, what Lute did in Tucson is nothing short of spectacular.

 

[azbuff]

It may be now, but it wasn't that way when the PAC8 expanded. I lived in Phoenix for about 6 years during the 1980's, and culturally, then, it wasn't like the left coast.

Oh, and I lived in Cali before I moved to Phoenix the first time.

Fair enough. I have no idea what Arizona was like prior to 2005.

 

[CUBUFF80]

Fair enough. I have no idea what Arizona was like prior to 2005.

Hot

 

[sackman]

If P12 regional channel revenue exceeds LHN revenue, Texass will change its tune. I think that's Larry's long run plan in bringing Texass to heel.

I sincerely hope that if Larry Scott has learned anything these last two years, it's that there's no bringing Texass to heel. They don't work that way. He'd be better served to abandon the attempt.

 

[Darth Snow]

I sincerely hope that if Larry Scott has learned anything these last two years, it's that there's no bringing Texass to heel. They don't work that way. He'd be better served to abandon the attempt.

Embarassing the **** out of Texass is a side benefit of all this :nod:

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Fair enough. I have no idea what Arizona was like prior to 2005.

I can't even imagine how much it's changed since I last lived there. I visited for a couple of days in 2000 but that was the first time I'd been back since the early '90's. Definitely not enough time to get a gauge on things.

 

[Buffnik]

I can't even imagine how much it's changed since I last lived there. I visited for a couple of days in 2000 but that was the first time I'd been back since the early '90's. Definitely not enough time to get a gauge on things.

I remember when the corner of Scottsdale & Shea roads was a desert. And I'm not that old. :lol:

 

[Cal84]

I remember when the corner of Scottsdale & Shea roads was a desert. And I'm not that old. :lol:

Scottsdale and Shea, I lived quite near there. Now Shea is just a road that goes up a slight hill towards more suburbs in Fountain Hills. And how come that fountain never works? Took my kids there telling them, we have the world's largest fountain and it's in the city right next to us! Get there and nothing. Point to a picture and tell the kids, that's what it would look like. Kids pile back into a car that is now 150 degrees inside because the AC wasn't on for 94 seconds and drive back to Scottsdale. That kind of epitomized my stay in Scottsdale. Nice cheap houses there though....

And CUBUFF80, let's not kid ourselves, that place is still damn farkin' hot now. Just with added humidity during the summer from all the pool evaporation....

 

[CUBUFF80]

Scottsdale and Shea, I lived quite near there. Now Shea is just a road that goes up a slight hill towards more suburbs in Fountain Hills. And how come that fountain never works? Took my kids there telling them, we have the world's largest fountain and it's in the city right next to us! Get there and nothing. Point to a picture and tell the kids, that's what it would look like. Kids pile back into a car that is now 150 degrees inside because the AC wasn't on for 94 seconds and drive back to Scottsdale. That kind of epitomized my stay in Scottsdale. Nice cheap houses there though....

And CUBUFF80, let's not kid ourselves, that place is still damn farkin' hot now. Just with added humidity during the summer from all the pool evaporation....

Funny thing, my oldest daughter moved to Scottsdale last October. She just experienced her first summer in hell - needless to say she misses the somewhat cooler CO weather.

 

[Jerry]

Texas didn't want to break up Big 12. They're happy with the status quo. We need to cheer for LHN to succeed.

 

[InTheBuff]

Scottsdale and Shea, I lived quite near there. Now Shea is just a road that goes up a slight hill towards more suburbs in Fountain Hills. And how come that fountain never works? Took my kids there telling them, we have the world's largest fountain and it's in the city right next to us! Get there and nothing. Point to a picture and tell the kids, that's what it would look like. Kids pile back into a car that is now 150 degrees inside because the AC wasn't on for 94 seconds and drive back to Scottsdale. That kind of epitomized my stay in Scottsdale. Nice cheap houses there though....

And CUBUFF80, let's not kid ourselves, that place is still damn farkin' hot now. Just with added humidity during the summer from all the pool evaporation....

always worked when I went there- best is when you are on approach to PHX-
flights from Denver always go right over Fountain Hills and seeing it from above in a plane is cool

 

[CarolinaBuff]

There's more to putting a conference together than shuffling the deck for the teams that would make the most money.

There's good reason why BYU isn't in the Pac-12 despite probably being a more valuable revenue partner than either CU or UU (considering the Pac-12 network wanting to reach worldwide).

And I don't see how it's arrogant. It's not a declaration that the culture of the conference is necessarily better. It's a declaration that the members like that culture, value it, and don't want to see it dramatically changed. From a revenue standpoint, it would probably make sense for the SEC to invite Notre Dame. From a cultural standpoint, it doesn't work. And that doesn't mean that they hate catholics or the midwest.

For the most part, what I'm saying with my post is that there has to be more common ground than "we'll make a lot of money". Conferences don't survive when they get big in ways that don't deliver a membership with the same priorities, principles and values (Big East, C-USA, MWC, WAC, Big 12). This has always been about more than money.

Edit: I should also add that this goes both ways. Fans from Oklahoma and Texas were also very concerned about travel distance and losing the culture they enjoyed within the Big 12 South.

I get what you're saying about the culture, I guess, and LS seemed to pride himself on that on College Football Live this afternoon when he admittedly said they in all probability gave up more money to preserve this culture thing. Yet last year LS was saying how he wants to make the Pac elite on the gridiron and more prominent nationally (paraphrasing here), but the problem is in order to get there they need to up the football profile in a big way.

If everyone's content with this, and apparently they are, that's fine but don't complain when the Pac is behind the SEC and Big 10, and likely even the ACC in football status. The Pac can always pride itself about leading everyone else in championships in sports that nobody cares about. Not to mention the culture.

 

[Jens1893]

I get what you're saying about the culture, I guess, and LS seemed to pride himself on that on College Football Live this afternoon when he admittedly said they in all probability gave up more money to preserve this culture thing. Yet last year LS was saying how he wants to make the Pac elite on the gridiron and more prominent nationally (paraphrasing here), but the problem is in order to get there they need to up the football profile in a big way.

If everyone's content with this, and apparently they are, that's fine but don't complain when the Pac is behind the SEC and Big 10, and likely even the ACC in football status. The Pac can always pride itself about leading everyone else in championships in sports that nobody cares about. Not to mention the culture.

Give the Pac 5 years with the new TV deal and judge it then.

 

[Darth Snow]

Give the Pac 5 years with the new TV deal and judge it then.

:nod: The SEC rose to prominence AFTER the new TV Deals it signed allowed all of its members to start building facilities like crazy.

 

[Cal84]

:nod: The SEC rose to prominence AFTER the new TV Deals it signed allowed all of its members to start building facilities like crazy.

The P12 TV contract will help, but I don't think it will have quite the same impact. For most P12 schools that TV money is earmarked for saving non-revenue sports from being disbanded.

 

[Darth Snow]

The P12 TV contract will help, but I don't think it will have quite the same impact. For most P12 schools that TV money is earmarked for saving non-revenue sports from being disbanded.

Trickle down effect. And theere is only so much you can do with facilities. Not to mention, you are already seeing a big uptick in facility upgrades at some schools.

 

[Buffnik]

The P12 TV contract will help, but I don't think it will have quite the same impact. For most P12 schools that TV money is earmarked for saving non-revenue sports from being disbanded.

That's one thing about CU that's a misperception out in the media and that we're well positioned for. We haven't over-spent our resources like a lot of ADs and this has led to reports that we don't have any money.

We've been running a balanced budget in the AD, so we're not borrowing from university funds unless there's a special circumstance the AD needs a loan for (Big 12 exit or firing a coach). We're running the minimum varsity sports because we cut back years ago. Once the loan debts are paid off in 2-3 years, the increased revenue from the new media deals is pretty much pure profit for the CU AD and can be plowed into salaries, upgrades and adding new sports. Our AD has been very responsible with its budgets.

 

[MiamiBuffs]

someone needs to photoshop larry scotts face on the joker and superimpose a Texas land mark and an OU landmark onto that


[video=youtube;N5WOBSX7CKo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5WOBSX7CKo&feature=related[/video]

There are landmarks in Mobilehoma? Who knew? :lol:

 

[Cal84]

That's one thing about CU that's a misperception out in the media and that we're well positioned for. We haven't over-spent our resources like a lot of ADs and this has led to reports that we don't have any money.

I wasn't specifically referring to CU. Actually the situation with Cal, Furd and UCLA was more in the back of my mind. It's the schools with the big Olympic sports programs that are money losing pits. Like Cal, Furd and UCLA. Actually UCLA not as much because they actually abandoned some of their water sports a few years back. But last year Furd actually hacked away at its non-revenue programs. Yeah, Richy Rich Furd. They didn't get rid of any scholarships but they cut sport staff spending and if the P12 TV deal hadn't been as lucrative as it was, I think full programs would have been cut this year. And you guys probably already know the story about Cal's men's baseball program.

 

[Buffnik]

I wasn't specifically referring to CU. Actually the situation with Cal, Furd and UCLA was more in the back of my mind. It's the schools with the big Olympic sports programs that are money losing pits. Like Cal, Furd and UCLA. Actually UCLA not as much because they actually abandoned some of their water sports a few years back. But last year Furd actually hacked away at its non-revenue programs. Yeah, Richy Rich Furd. They didn't get rid of any scholarships but they cut sport staff spending and if the P12 TV deal hadn't been as lucrative as it was, I think full programs would have been cut this year. And you guys probably already know the story about Cal's men's baseball program.

That CWS run you guys made was the cool story of the spring.

Full disclosure, I was still unable to root for you out of bitterness over the 7-52 beatdown (the hoops wins didn't quite get me over it). I think I'm good now. :smile2:

 

[JRK1212]

If I was running the Big-12 I'd add Memphis. It fits the conference's geographic footprint and you'd be adding a large market and also probably get a share of the Nashville market. They have a very good basketball program and while the football program really sucks there's some serious growth potential there. They're located in fertile recruiting territory and are in a major city that only has one pro sports team. There's plenty of available support and cash and they already have a stadium that seats 62,000 people. The recruiting bump they'd get from entering a BCS conference should be enough to jump-start their program.

 

[Buffnik]

If I was running the Big-12 I'd add Memphis. It fits the conference's geographic footprint and you'd be adding a large market and also probably get a share of the Nashville market. They have a very good basketball program and while the football program really sucks there's some serious growth potential there. They're located in fertile recruiting territory and are in a major city that only has one pro sports team. There's plenty of available support and cash and they already have a stadium that seats 62,000 people. The recruiting bump they'd get from entering a BCS conference should be enough to jump-start their program.

I've always thought that Memphis should be a BCS target. But there must not be much there, because the Big East passed on them when they were looking to add for football. This is despite FedEx being a major investor in the program and saying they were willing to pay $1 million to whoever took them and also give that conference the bowl tie-in for the stadium. Memphis is also a historical rival for Louisville and Cincinnati, so something must not be kosher in Memphis.

 

[Duff Man]

Memphis is a great recruiting ground, but the impact would be negligible for two reasons:

1. The SEC schools have that city on lockdown (particularly Bama and Ole Miss).
2. Kids from Memphis have had some trouble making it into school. Can Memphis field a roster without partial qualifiers?

 

[Ruckus]

Arizona to California = Oklahoma to Texas.

Kind of like a satellite state.

And Florida to Applebees, of course.