Prairie View A&M Lookalike & Game thread - MBB (Boulder, Thursday, 12/19, 6:30 PM MT, )

[Buffnik]

Just took a look at the box score. Not sure I've ever seen Siewert with 3 assists, a steal and a blocked shot but not a single 3pt attempt. Weird but effective night for him.

I really don't like the 16 turnovers, but I can live with that since I also see 18 assists.

Looks like we played great perimeter defense, rebounded well and were focused from the FT line.

Kin's stats show a guy who was focused on distributing the ball and getting the offense flowing. Also nice to see Gatling with an A/T of 3/1.

Bey must have been a bit out of sorts again with the 4 turnovers and a less than dominant rebounding performance.

And it appears that PVAM had no answer for Battey.

I didn't get to see the game, so appreciate any observations on where the stats might lie a bit.

 

[Darth Snow]

Just took a look at the box score. Not sure I've ever seen Siewert with 3 assists, a steal and a blocked shot but not a single 3pt attempt. Weird but effective night for him.

I really don't like the 16 turnovers, but I can live with that since I also see 18 assists.

Looks like we played great perimeter defense, rebounded well and were focused from the FT line.

Kin's stats show a guy who was focused on distributing the ball and getting the offense flowing. Also nice to see Gatling with an A/T of 3/1.

Bey must have been a bit out of sorts again with the 4 turnovers and a less than dominant rebounding performance.

And it appears that PVAM had no answer for Battey.

I didn't get to see the game, so appreciate any observations on where the stats might lie a bit.

Battey was offensive MVP by a long shot. They had no answer for him.

Defense was ok, not great. Reason the game was close for so long was because we gave up a bunch of offensive rebounds and then we missed a bunch of practice shots from 3. Not rushed ones or jack ups. Just wide open feet set clankers by good shooters. As soon as that changed we blew them out.

I saw flashes from a few guys that makes me think we are starting to come out of the funk: Bey (horrible start, got going as the game went on) and MK$ both seemed to figure things out. Gatling is settling in.

Maddox needs to be cut from this rotation. He's god awful. And we need to end the Parquet starting experiment. That starting 5 can't score worth a damn.

 

[Buffnik]

Battey was offensive MVP by a long shot. They had no answer for him.

Defense was ok, not great. Reason the game was close for so long was because we gave up a bunch of offensive rebounds and then we missed a bunch of practice shots from 3. Not rushed ones or jack ups. Just wide open feet set clankers by good shooters. As soon as that changed we blew them out.

I saw flashes from a few guys that makes me think we are starting to come out of the funk: Bey (horrible start, got going as the game went on) and MK$ both seemed to figure things out. Gatling is settling in.

Maddox needs to be cut from this rotation. He's god awful. And we need to end the Parquet starting experiment. That starting 5 can't score worth a damn.

Thanks. I'm not seeing much justification to give Maddox or Kountz the minutes they've been getting. Might need to cut both of their minutes in half and play both Eli and Gatling over 20 minutes each until Kountz/Maddox shoots his way out of his slump and learns to value ball security.

 

[Jeric]

What's with the lack of minutes with Bey, though? I get he's not in the greatest form but is it a punishment or is it tactical in some way? Because if it's the former, I don't think it works and I don't see how it's sensible otherwise while players like Kin and Schwartz play out through their struggles and find their footing. Roberson was getting 33 MPG as a Jr, Bey's barely getting 27 and just 44 over the last two. Have to be able to get more use of him than that.

 

[Buffnik]

What's with the lack of minutes with Bey, though? I get he's not in the greatest form but is it a punishment or is it tactical in some way? Because if it's the former, I don't think it works and I don't see how it's sensible otherwise while players like Kin and Schwartz play out through their struggles and find their footing. Roberson was getting 33 MPG as a Jr, Bey's barely getting 27 and just 44 over the last two. Have to be able to get more use of him than that.

Yep. Bey, Schwartz and Kin are the 3 guys that have to be on the court trying to play their way out of it when they're in a funk. Because at the end of the day, we can't win against the better teams unless those 3 get in sync on the offensive end.

 

[seattlebuff]

Schwartz hits 3 straight 3s toward the end which broke PV’s back. Up to that point, we looked horrible again. When Kin is out of the game, this team’s offense goes to complete ****, it’s painful to watch. A bunch of playground bull****. Gatling looking like he might be turning a corner ... at least he creates a little bit. Daniels, Parquet and Kountz are still complete liabilities ... should only play for quick breathers and foul trouble.

 

[tante]

What about your starting 5 for Dayton as

Kin
Schwartz
Bey
Siewert
Battey

That would create some mismatches on the offensive end.

 

[Buffnik]

What about your starting 5 for Dayton as

Kin
Schwartz
Bey
Siewert
Battey

That would create some mismatches on the offensive end.

For both teams.

 

[Daaah]

Good result. Does anyone like our odds against Dayton in Chicago?

 

[seattlebuff]

Good result. Does anyone like our odds against Dayton in Chicago?

If Seiwert, Schwartz and Gatling make a dozen 3s between them, we might have a chance.

 

[cu3x]

Liking TB, but his constant refrain is 'these guys are so much better than they've shown, wait till...'
If he's correct and he can't get them to play their best, he becomes the problem.
Go Buffs - beat dayton.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Liking TB, but his constant refrain is 'these guys are so much better than they've shown, wait till...'
If he's correct and he can't get them to play their best, he becomes the problem.
Go Buffs - beat dayton.

Meh. I'm resigned to this team playing Tad ball for the rest of the season. I'm not gonna get upset at the ****ty offense anymore as long as we keep winning. It is what it is--a team without a go-to scorer, whose best player is under 6'. Our expectations were too high.

 

[Buffnik]

Do some of mean it negatively when you say “Tad Balll”?

Because when I see, say or hear that I think of it in a very positive way. Tad Ball, at its best, allows a team like the Nate-Austin-Carlin group to win the Pac-12 tourney against significantly more talented teams. It’s great, winning basketball that punches above it’s weight class. It’s very dependent on having a guy who can individually break down a defense to get buckets, though (Alec, Spencer, Ski, White) and right now we need Kin and Schwartz to a lesser extent to fill that role on offense.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Do some of mean it negatively when you say “Tad Balll”?

Because when I see, say or hear that I think of it in a very positive way. Tad Ball, at its best, allows a team like the Nate-Austin-Carlin group to win the Pac-12 tourney against significantly more talented teams. It’s great, winning basketball that punches above it’s weight class. It’s very dependent on having a guy who can individually break down a defense to get buckets, though (Alec, Spencer, Ski, White) and right now we need Kin and Schwartz to a lesser extent to fill that role on offense.

Tad Ball hasn’t been effective for many years. It seems like Tad Ball will need to adapt if the Buffs will achieve what they want.

 

[Buffnik]

Tad Ball hasn’t been effective for many years. It seems like Tad Ball will need to adapt if the Buffs will achieve what they want.

Sure it has. We have won more games we shouldn’t than we’ve had bad losses. We just haven’t been as talented with all those recruiting misses the 3 years after Tad moved on from Coach A as our lead recruiter. Last 3 years have been much better.

 

[manhattanbuff]

Sure it has. We have won more games we shouldn’t than we’ve had bad losses. We just haven’t been as talented with all those recruiting misses the 3 years after Tad moved on from Coach A as our lead recruiter. Last 3 years have been much better.

The only thing that matters is the NCAA Tournament. It has been several years since Colorado has made an appearance in this event. For a tenured coach who’s been at the school for a decade, moral victories are not sufficient.

 

[rodrigo]

Do some of mean it negatively when you say “Tad Balll”?

Because when I see, say or hear that I think of it in a very positive way. Tad Ball, at its best, allows a team like the Nate-Austin-Carlin group to win the Pac-12 tourney against significantly more talented teams. It’s great, winning basketball that punches above it’s weight class. It’s very dependent on having a guy who can individually break down a defense to get buckets, though (Alec, Spencer, Ski, White) and right now we need Kin and Schwartz to a lesser extent to fill that role on offense.

I do and I don't. Again, I'm no basketball analyst but as a fan, yes it has produced a sustained run of 20-win seasons but those are padded by really crappy OOC schedules in a relatively weak conference. Then there are the frustrating spells where the team goes without a basket for 10 minutes a game, really bad losses (WSU) that stick a stake through any Dance hopes, and now the most "talented" top-to-bottom team Boyle has had but one that underperforms just like the others (save the first year in the PAC). But all we have to do is wait until they start playing like they are capable...

I don't buy the punch-above-weight-class argument. This team is/was supposed to contend for a PAC 12 title. Losing to Northern Iowa is punching above? Point to one win this season that fits that description.

 

[BuffsNYC]

Do some of mean it negatively when you say “Tad Balll”?

Because when I see, say or hear that I think of it in a very positive way. Tad Ball, at its best, allows a team like the Nate-Austin-Carlin group to win the Pac-12 tourney against significantly more talented teams. It’s great, winning basketball that punches above it’s weight class. It’s very dependent on having a guy who can individually break down a defense to get buckets, though (Alec, Spencer, Ski, White) and right now we need Kin and Schwartz to a lesser extent to fill that role on offense.

For whatever reasons, Tad ball means defense, rebounding, and disjointed half-court offense. Yes, we can win that way, but we can’t get past the first weekend of the dance. You are correct, Tad’s best team (IMO) was before the Mayor went down in Seattle. The offense was just let Spencer abuse the defender and finish with a layup or foul shots.

 

[Buffnik]

The only thing that matters is the NCAA Tournament. It has been several years since Colorado has made an appearance in this event. For a tenured coach who’s been at the school for a decade, moral victories are not sufficient.

I’m pretty sure I was talking about real victories. I don’t care, and never have, if we make Arizona sweat but come up short.

Tad wins a lot of games. He has not gotten CU to the point where we Dance more often than not and then gives us the occasional run to the 2nd weekend. That’s what everyone wants and where Tad needs to get things quickly.

 

[Buffnik]

I do and I don't. Again, I'm no basketball analyst but as a fan, yes it has produced a sustained run of 20-win seasons but those are padded by really crappy OOC schedules in a relatively weak conference. Then there are the frustrating spells where the team goes without a basket for 10 minutes a game, really bad losses (WSU) that stick a stake through any Dance hopes, and now the most "talented" top-to-bottom team Boyle has had but one that underperforms just like the others (save the first year in the PAC). But all we have to do is wait until they start playing like they are capable...

I don't buy the punch-above-weight-class argument. This team is/was supposed to contend for a PAC 12 title. Losing to Northern Iowa is punching above? Point to one win this season that fits that description.

This season? My gawd, man, we’re 9-2 with a very nice NET. You and others acting like this season’s a failure already ahead of the Dayton matchup and conference play.

I was mad about the UNI game. Likely that was a tournament team, but one we should have handled, especially at home. They caught us in the midst of a slump and in the aftershock of KU. Tough loss we shouldn’t have taken, but by no means a “bad” loss or season killer.

 

[manhattanbuff]

I’m pretty sure I was talking about real victories. I don’t care, and never have, if we make Arizona sweat but come up short.

Tad wins a lot of games. He has not gotten CU to the point where we Dance more often than not and then gives us the occasional run to the 2nd weekend. That’s what everyone wants and where Tad needs to get things quickly.

He has not produced enough wins in a weak P-12 to get this team to the NCAA Tournament for several years running. We play in a mediocre to poor conference. Wins are cheap for a long tenured coach. Playing meaningful games in March is the only relevant criterion for determining Boyle’s success or failure. The conference has adapted and has put Colorado on the outside looking in. Can he adapt? So far, the verdict is decidedly no.

 

[Darth Snow]

He has not produced enough wins in a weak P-12 to get this team to the NCAA Tournament for several years running. We play in a mediocre to poor conference. Wins are cheap for a long tenured coach. Playing meaningful games in March is the only relevant criterion for determining Boyle’s success or failure. The conference has adapted and has put Colorado on the outside looking in. Can he adapt? So far, the verdict is decidedly no.

How has the conference adapted? That doesn't make sense to me. What does make sense is that Tad had a bad coaching year and lost the team (2016) then cratered due to years of bad recruiting, which he has now fixed and pulled us out of, leading to this year where, if you were a betting man, you would say we are more likely than not to make the tournament right now.

 

[jumped ship]

I hope tad sees something in parquet and wants to develop him cause that starting 5 always starts terribly on offense

if the starting 5 is starting poor on offense (which they are), is Eli really the issue?

I like Gatling as our sixth man, he’s become our second most reliable ball handler, and let’s you sub out MK in a smarter way

ideally, I’d like to have Lucas in the starting lineup, but that doesn’t make sense for obvious reasons

 

[manhattanbuff]

How has the conference adapted? That doesn't make sense to me. What does make sense is that Tad had a bad coaching year and lost the team (2016) then cratered due to years of bad recruiting, which he has now fixed and pulled us out of, leading to this year where, if you were a betting man, you would say we are more likely than not to make the tournament right now.

Colorado in its first few years in the Pac-12 were in the NCAA tournament conversation nearly every season as a qualifier from the conference or strong at-large. Colorado has fallen to the wayside here.

 

[rodrigo]

This season? My gawd, man, we’re 9-2 with a very nice NET. You and others acting like this season’s a failure already ahead of the Dayton matchup and conference play.

I was mad about the UNI game. Likely that was a tournament team, but one we should have handled, especially at home. They caught us in the midst of a slump and in the aftershock of KU. Tough loss we shouldn’t have taken, but by no means a “bad” loss or season killer.

Well, time will tell. But to this point, yes I’m not impressed.

 

[manhattanbuff]

FWIW, Colorado was 48-41 (54%) in the Pac-12 during the team’s first five years in the conference.

The last three seasons, while the Pac-12 has gotten much worse, Colorado was 26-28 in the conference (48%).

 

[ZandiBuff]

I feel that Lucas has really stepped up on D, especially down low. Doesn't get run over as much anymore.

I also don't think Battey gets the recognition he deserves. He played 27 minutes, 1 foul, 20 pts, 10/11 fts. Monster night for him.

 

[Scotch]

Do some of mean it negatively when you say “Tad Balll”?

Depends on the game.

Overall its a positive. Offense has been the gripe, but that side has seen gradual improvement over the years. Defense, rebounding, get out in transition. Pretty simple.

 

[seattlebuff]

How has the conference adapted? That doesn't make sense to me. What does make sense is that Tad had a bad coaching year and lost the team (2016) then cratered due to years of bad recruiting, which he has now fixed and pulled us out of, leading to this year where, if you were a betting man, you would say we are more likely than not to make the tournament right now.

If I was betting right now, I’d say no way we make the tournament. Yes, we’re 9-2 but where’s the real quality win in there? ASU was missing 2 starters. UC Irvine has turned out to not be very good. And the LMU, Wyoming, Sac State, CSU and Prairie View games all were undecided with 5 minutes left. You think if we can’t dominate those teams, we’re gonna be better in P12 plays (when BTW everyone practices and gets better too?)

If we played Oregon’s OOC schedule, we’d be 3-8, 4-7 at best.

 

[Darth Snow]

If I was betting right now, I’d say no way we make the tournament. Yes, we’re 9-2 but where’s the real quality win in there? UC Irvine has turned out to not be very good. And the LMU, Wyoming, Sac State, CSU and Prairie View games all were undecided with 5 minutes left. You think if we can’t put dominate those teams, we’re gonna be better in P12 plays (when BTW everyone practices and gets better too?)

Wanna bet? 20 bucks we make it