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Rivalry Question

Alfred91 said:
Ever notice that KState has become much less a school of note since the NCAA standardized things in terms of jucos? Now that Snyder can't stack his teams full of guys of questionable literacy, they're middle of the pack.

Which, to Snyder's credit, is a lot better than they were when he got there.
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So true and we berated the old man for it, fast forward how many Juco players has CU admitted recently and we see the results on the field over the last 3 seasons one is playing for the 49ers? He was a genius for his time, he won with Jucos then and here we are today with 3-4 Jucos in our starting line up on D as we were in 16.
 
Been touched on before but our level of emotional involvement (rivalry) with our PAC12 conference opponents won't ever reach what we had in the Big8/Big12 days for two reasons.

One is that PAC 12 fans are simply not as involved in their teams as the fans in the Midwest. They have other things to distract them. In the Bigs, the fans have football and farming. The ones who aren't farmers still live in regions dominated by the influence of agriculture, that is what they do. No mountains, no oceans, no cultural centers like LA, SF, Seattle, they have football. Their favorite university is their identity even if they never went there.

Second is that rarely do PAC12 battles carry the weight in terms of national rankings that each years battles in the 8/12 carried. The PAC12 has had it's share of contenders for the NC or high rankings but rarely has it had multiple contenders in a year. In the Big 8 we had a year that we finished 3rd in the nation and had two conference schools ahead of us. In many years the individual games determined who would contend and who wouldn't, not just if a team would contend. The games meant a lot more.

Rivalries are built on games between teams meaning something, not just being close together. When we get to the point that our games mean us or our opponent getting national recognition then we will see more emotion. It still won't reach the level like it did with the Nebraskas and Oklahomas, etc. though where a win or a loss could mean a good year or bad for an entire state.
 
I don't care to have Oregon State as a rival with our retread OC, Oct 27th.
Dinardo, Barnett & Miles = Mac's coaching tree, Snyder's coaching tree has been as good, Stoops & Leavitt. Where the players come from HS or Juco doesn't really matter...talent is talent.
 
Always BUFF said:
So true and we berated the old man for it, fast forward how many Juco players has CU admitted recently and we see the results on the field over the last 3 seasons one is playing for the 49ers? He was a genius for his time, he won with Jucos then and here we are today with 3-4 Jucos in our starting line up on D as we were in 16.
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Genius, maybe, but remember that he was playing kids that literally could not be accepted into CU. I mean, we got guys from jucos, too - Moschetti, Pesavento, and Robert Hodge were all jucos, for example - but we had plenty of kids be turned away as well because they couldn't get into schook here. Snyder stacked those teams with those kids, the ones who couldn't get into most other places.

Now that the NCAA has started requiring more of jucos and not letting guys skate by on the bare minimum of effort, KState isn't getting as many of the juco transfers as they used to because the best juco transfers are able to get into other schools, like CU.
 
Alfred91 said:
Genius, maybe, but remember that he was playing kids that literally could not be accepted into CU. I mean, we got guys from jucos, too - Moschetti, Pesavento, and Donald Hodge were all jucos, for example - but we had plenty of kids be turned away as well because they couldn't get into schook here. Snyder stacked those teams with those kids, the ones who couldn't get into most other places.

Now that the NCAA has started requiring more of jucos and not letting guys skate by on the bare minimum of effort, KState isn't getting as many of the juco transfers as they used to because the best juco transfers are able to get into other schools, like CU.
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fify.
 
Alfred91 said:
Genius, maybe, but remember that he was playing kids that literally could not be accepted into CU. I mean, we got guys from jucos, too - Moschetti, Pesavento, and Robert Hodge were all jucos, for example - but we had plenty of kids be turned away as well because they couldn't get into schook here. Snyder stacked those teams with those kids, the ones who couldn't get into most other places.

Now that the NCAA has started requiring more of jucos and not letting guys skate by on the bare minimum of effort, KState isn't getting as many of the juco transfers as they used to because the best juco transfers are able to get into other schools, like CU.
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Another thing that's killing K-State is the round robin that league plays-In the old Big 8, I think we had 4 OOC slots, and that didn't change when they brought in the entire state of Texas. Now they're playing everybody, and they have one less OOC slot. Back in the day, KSU only played cupcakes out of conference. Instead of four of those a year, they're down to usually two-as Darth plays a P5 usually every year.

IMO, nothing (whether we're talking about Utah or calling out USC) will approach the hatred within this program for Nebraska. Whether we like it or not, we need to play them as much as we possibly can. I think we all saw how jacked this fanbase was for that game, and I think the reaction of their fanbase to losing probably shows them they need us a lot more than they care to admit. I'm sure we'll hear a lot about the game of the century when they play Oklahoma in two years, but the only people who still remember that are the old people who are probably too afraid of the piss balloons to come to Boulder next year.
 
ahoelsken said:
Another thing that's killing K-State is the round robin that league plays-In the old Big 8, I think we had 4 OOC slots, and that didn't change when they brought in the entire state of Texas. Now they're playing everybody, and they have one less OOC slot. Back in the day, KSU only played cupcakes out of conference. Instead of four of those a year, they're down to usually two-as Darth plays a P5 usually every year.

IMO, nothing (whether we're talking about Utah or calling out USC) will approach the hatred within this program for Nebraska. Whether we like it or not, we need to play them as much as we possibly can. I think we all saw how jacked this fanbase was for that game, and I think the reaction of their fanbase to losing probably shows them they need us a lot more than they care to admit. I'm sure we'll hear a lot about the game of the century when they play Oklahoma in two years, but the only people who still remember that are the old people who are probably too afraid of the piss balloons to come to Boulder next year.
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Also their coach is 9000 years old.
 
Abrams and M Johnson were both mentioned my commentators last weekend having come from Juco.
By no means am I insinuating that CU has become the Ksu of the P12, for just a moment how many Juco's does USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon & UW have on their rosters?
The old guy figured out a way to bring a morbid program to a place of national prominence that never reached the heights that CU did without...sucks to point this out but Ksu has more bowl appearances under it's belt than we do over the last 10 yrs. I've always thought it hilarious when Ksu beat or gave with a few Jucos knu a run for it's money totally debunking knu's walk on program.
 
Always BUFF said:
Abrams and M Johnson were both mentioned my commentators last weekend having come from Juco.
By no means am I insinuating that CU has become the Ksu of the P12, for just a moment how many Juco's does USC, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon & UW have on their rosters?
The old guy figured out a way to bring a morbid program to a place of national prominence that never reached the heights that CU did without...sucks to point this out but Ksu has more bowl appearances under it's belt than we do over the last 10 yrs. I've always thought it hilarious when Ksu beat or gave with a few Jucos knu a run for it's money totally debunking knu's walk on program.
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Uh, over the last ten years nearly every program has more bowl appearances than us.
 
ahoelsken said:
Another thing that's killing K-State is the round robin that league plays-In the old Big 8, I think we had 4 OOC slots, and that didn't change when they brought in the entire state of Texas. Now they're playing everybody, and they have one less OOC slot. Back in the day, KSU only played cupcakes out of conference. Instead of four of those a year, they're down to usually two-as Darth plays a P5 usually every year.

IMO, nothing (whether we're talking about Utah or calling out USC) will approach the hatred within this program for Nebraska. Whether we like it or not, we need to play them as much as we possibly can. I think we all saw how jacked this fanbase was for that game, and I think the reaction of their fanbase to losing probably shows them they need us a lot more than they care to admit. I'm sure we'll hear a lot about the game of the century when they play Oklahoma in two years, but the only people who still remember that are the old people who are probably too afraid of the piss balloons to come to Boulder next year.
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That is a good point. Back in the 90s, when he was building that program, Snyder would drive me nuts because he would line up 4 cupcakes and get into the top 25, while we would play 1 or 2 big time programs OOC every year.

As for OU/NU, the Nubs have long memories. I'm sure there will be plenty of folks reminiscing about the Big 8 Thanksgiving weekend game. Of course, when the Sooners dismantle them, there won't be as many fond memories of Johnny Rodgers and Eric Crouch.
 
Alfred91 said:
That is a good point. Back in the 90s, when he was building that program, Snyder would drive me nuts because he would line up 4 cupcakes and get into the top 25, while we would play 1 or 2 big time programs OOC every year.

As for OU/NU, the Nubs have long memories. I'm sure there will be plenty of folks reminiscing about the Big 8 Thanksgiving weekend game. Of course, when the Sooners dismantle them, there won't be as many fond memories of Johnny Rodgers and Eric Crouch.
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No question-As far as OU/NU, there's gonna be a fair amount of reminiscing for the days of those two on Thanksgiving, but that hasn't been a thing for 20 something years. The kids on those teams won't get it, and the people who are my age at least in Oklahoma don't get it.
 
The whole point why Mac picked the Nubs was because they were the best and he shot for the best. With that logic we should pick USC...there was nothing natural or organic about our rivalry w kNU so let’s not think anything will happen organically now. I don’t think MMac is the kind to just pick a rival like M1.
 
Bufffan68 said:
The whole point why Mac picked the Nubs was because they were the best and he shot for the best. With that logic we should pick USC...there was nothing natural or organic about our rivalry w kNU so let’s not think anything will happen organically now. I don’t think MMac is the kind to just pick a rival like M1.
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We also share a border with NU
 
HighlandsBuff said:
UCLA basketball is the greatest college basketball program of all-time, I think it's fair to say. They have 11 NCAA titles, UA has 1. Where its headed from here is an open debate, and I think it's tougher to play in McKale, but they deserve to be on that list
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10 of those 11 titles came between 40 and 50 years ago. Pauley is not an intimidating environment to play in. Their fans do not travel particularly well. They have the history, but it's ancient history. The bandwagon may fill up when they have a good season, but I don't feel anywhere near the animosity towards them that I do towards Arizona. Maybe if CU had joined the conference in 2006 or 2007 when UCLA had Love and Westbrook and were making final fours on the reg I would have a different view of them.
 
Buffnik said:
Yep. And the Nubs didn't already have 3 big rivalry games on their schedule every year.

I think it would be kind of needy and pathetic if MM declared our rival to be USC. Let's at least beat them once and then we can start that kind of talk.
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We can resume this discussion in a few weeks, then.
 
Buffnik said:
Yep. And the Nubs didn't already have 3 big rivalry games on their schedule every year.

I think it would be kind of needy and pathetic if MM declared our rival to be USC. Let's at least beat them once and then we can start that kind of talk.
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I agree, but by this logic wouldn't it have been "pathetic" for Mac 1 to declare Nebraska a rival in 1982 when the Buffs had lost 14 straight games against them?
 
Buffnik said:
Yep. And the Nubs didn't already have 3 big rivalry games on their schedule every year.

I think it would be kind of needy and pathetic if MM declared our rival to be USC. Let's at least beat them once and then we can start that kind of talk.
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We win the South for the second time in 3 years and we can start picking fights with these fanbases.
 
StormTrooper said:
I agree, but by this logic wouldn't it have been "pathetic" for Mac 1 to declare Nebraska a rival in 1982 when the Buffs had lost 14 straight games against them?
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Many thought it was. There's more there with the border state and the fact NU had 1 rival (OU), but OU fans were more passionate about their UT game and also had an in-state rival with OSU. It at least made some sense. We'd also had a long history with Nebraska, even if it hadn't been a good one for 25 years. It's rare that lightning strikes twice. I just keep thinking how stupid I'd believe it was if Utah announced that it had a rivalry with USC.
 
Buffnik said:
Yep. And the Nubs didn't already have 3 big rivalry games on their schedule every year.

I think it would be kind of needy and pathetic if MM declared our rival to be USC. Let's at least beat them once and then we can start that kind of talk.
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StormTrooper said:
I agree, but by this logic wouldn't it have been "pathetic" for Mac 1 to declare Nebraska a rival in 1982 when the Buffs had lost 14 straight games against them?
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I kind of see both sides on this.

I do think there's a pretty good middle ground though. Rather than declaring them a "rival," someone in leadership (head coach or AD) should say something along the lines of "USC is historically the best program both in the conference and in our division, the road to the championship almost always runs through them, so yeah, that's who we're aiming for - that's the game we highlight every year, and it's the game we're going to highlight every year."
 
darth-horax said:
BYU and Utah won't play after the 2022 season.
Maybe by then Utah will hate us....maybe not.
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Two things-One, given BYU's independence, I think Ute fans look at them more in the way we look at CSU than Nebraska. Two, that series is in the same boat we are with the nubs (Utah and BYU don't have anything scheduled after 22, just like we don't with NU after 2024)-There's juice around the game, and the first meeting in eight years was an instant classic. Rick George and Bill Moos will play as much as they possibly can......which is probably four games a decade right now......but if the B1G, Pac 12, and Big 12 come to their senses and go to 8 conference games a year, I could see that becoming more regular than even that.
 
i don't think we need to declare usc as our rivals. i just want to beat their asses and let the hate build. once we start to beat them, their trolls will show up. and, they have some very nasty trolls, just like uw. and, once the trolls show up, it is off to the races on hate. add in a couple of questionable calls, close games, team banter or activity, and we will have ourselves someone new to hate.
 
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