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Sandusky update (more evidence against Joe P)

MtnBuff said:
Where are the people who earlier in this thread were saying that there were very few people who still sided with Paterno.

Some of these people will never change their minds, they will go to their graves believing that JoePa was innocent and that Penn State was blameless and persecuted in this matter.

These people need something major like no football games to follow to shake them up. They still won't believe that their beloved heros did anything wrong but it will send a message to future schools who may find themselves with the question of report or not.
Click to expand...

I think that all of the people that still support Paterno now will never change their mind. There could be a ton of more proof that he looked away and they won't believe it. People always say about all of these other schools that all they care about is football but in Penn State's case clearly that's all the fans care about.
 
I see it repeated by PSU fans that JoePa "only did one bad thing" or "only made one mistake" or "forgetting all the good he did". Bull****.

He didn't just make one mistake, he made the same auful mistake every day for 13 years. Every day he would have been reminded that Sandusky was still running a children's charity as way to abuse children, and he could have very easily put a stop to it at any time. There wasn't just one opportunity to put an end to it in 98. JoePa did a lot of "good" things that he was very publicly recognized and rewarded for. You are who you really are when no one was looking, and JoePa doing nothing for 13 years clearly shows what his priorities were.
 
cmgoods said:
I think that all of the people that still support Paterno now will never change their mind. There could be a ton of more proof that he looked away and they won't believe it. People always say about all of these other schools that all they care about is football but in Penn State's case clearly that's all the fans care about.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. At this point it isn't even about what happened at Penn State. What it is now about is two things. One is showing the victims that they matter more that a football program and the second is making sure that any program faced with a similar situation in the future doesn't consider not reporting.

Letting Penn State make some token gestures with some recruiting and bowl sanctions tells the victims that in the big scheme of things they aren't that important. More importantly it tells other schools that if they don't report and get caught it is inconvienient but business as usual continues. Nothing short of having the helmets locked up in an equipment storage room on a bunch of fall Saturdays will get the message through loud and clear.
 
This timeline explains the motivation for the cover up(s). This is all taken from the Freeh Report.


May 4, 1998 - Victim 1's mom contacts Chambers (State College licensed psychologist) about abuse.

May 4th, 1998 - Shultz's confidential notes dated May 4, 1998 state: a woman reported that her 11 1/2 year old son who had been involved with Second Mile was taken by Jerry to he football locker rooms; that taped police interview reflected behavior at best inappropriate @
worst sexual improprieties; the conduct was at min poor judgement and that Sansusky came up behind and gave him a bear hug said he would squeeze the guts out... and the boy's 10 year old friend claims same thing went on with him... The notes conclude with the words Critical issue - contact with genitals? Assuming same experience w second boy? not criminal.

May 5th, 1998 Shultz's confidential notes indicate more information provided.. demonstrated how Jerry hugged from back hands around abdomen and down to thighs, picked him up and held him at shower head... He also learns that report will be made with Dept of Public
Welfare... Shultz's notes end with "is this opening of pandora's box? other children?"

May 7th, 1998 A SECOND evaluation of the boy is ordered with counselor John Seasock - Seasock was brought in to evaluate the boy even though he had been contracting with CYS (Centre County Children and Youth Services) which was NOT supposed to be involved in the investigation because of a conflict of interest with Second Mile (CYS and Second Mile did a lot of work together).

May 9th, 1998 Seasock concluded Sandusky "doesn't fit the profile of a pedophile" - which completely contradicts the State College psychologist who said she and her colleagues agree that "the incidents meet all of our definitions, based on experience and education, of a likely pedophile's pattern of building trust and gradual introduction of physical touch, within a context of a 'loving,' 'special' relationship." Between 2001-2006 John Seasock was awarded 11.4K in Penn State contracts!

MAY 15th, 1998 BEAVER STADIUM EXPANSION OK'd and ANNOUNCED!
http://www.psu.edu/ur/archives/intercom_1998/May21/stadium.html

"The cost of the estimated $84 million project, planned for completion in two construction stages by the 2001 season, will be met by revenue from the lease of skyboxes, club seating receipts, ticket sales from the new seats and other contributions." (Payment for the
expansion is dependent on ticket sales)...


Feb 9th, 2001 - McQueary witnesses Sandusky rape of victim 2

March 19th, 2001 - Curley meets with ED of Second Mile to discuss incident. Second Mile doesn't pass along any of the information about Sandusky to authorities (or parents).

July 24th, 2001 - Parcel of land owned by PSU is sold to Second Mile at cost (168k).

Sept 1, 2001 - Renovations are completed on time for 2001 season! (PSU administration pats itself on the back for a job well done)

 
Section106 said:
This timeline explains the motivation for the cover up(s). This is all taken from the Freeh Report.


May 4, 1998 - Victim 1's mom contacts Chambers (State College licensed psychologist) about abuse.

May 4th, 1998 - Shultz's confidential notes dated May 4, 1998 state: a woman reported that her 11 1/2 year old son who had been involved with Second Mile was taken by Jerry to he football locker rooms; that taped police interview reflected behavior at best inappropriate @
worst sexual improprieties; the conduct was at min poor judgement and that Sansusky came up behind and gave him a bear hug said he would squeeze the guts out... and the boy's 10 year old friend claims same thing went on with him... The notes conclude with the words Critical issue - contact with genitals? Assuming same experience w second boy? not criminal.

May 5th, 1998 Shultz's confidential notes indicate more information provided.. demonstrated how Jerry hugged from back hands around abdomen and down to thighs, picked him up and held him at shower head... He also learns that report will be made with Dept of Public
Welfare... Shultz's notes end with "is this opening of pandora's box? other children?"

May 7th, 1998 A SECOND evaluation of the boy is ordered with counselor John Seasock - Seasock was brought in to evaluate the boy even though he had been contracting with CYS (Centre County Children and Youth Services) which was NOT supposed to be involved in the investigation because of a conflict of interest with Second Mile (CYS and Second Mile did a lot of work together).

May 9th, 1998 Seasock concluded Sandusky "doesn't fit the profile of a pedophile" - which completely contradicts the State College psychologist who said she and her colleagues agree that "the incidents meet all of our definitions, based on experience and education, of a likely pedophile's pattern of building trust and gradual introduction of physical touch, within a context of a 'loving,' 'special' relationship." Between 2001-2006 John Seasock was awarded 11.4K in Penn State contracts!

MAY 15th, 1998 BEAVER STADIUM EXPANSION OK'd and ANNOUNCED!
http://www.psu.edu/ur/archives/intercom_1998/May21/stadium.html

"The cost of the estimated $84 million project, planned for completion in two construction stages by the 2001 season, will be met by revenue from the lease of skyboxes, club seating receipts, ticket sales from the new seats and other contributions." (Payment for the
expansion is dependent on ticket sales)...


Feb 9th, 2001 - McQueary witnesses Sandusky rape of victim 2

March 19th, 2001 - Curley meets with ED of Second Mile to discuss incident. Second Mile doesn't pass along any of the information about Sandusky to authorities (or parents).

July 24th, 2001 - Parcel of land owned by PSU is sold to Second Mile at cost (168k).

Sept 1, 2001 - Renovations are completed on time for 2001 season! (PSU administration pats itself on the back for a job well done)

Click to expand...
From that, it sounds like a lot of people had questions and said nothing. Also, it sounds like there could have been a lot of people who may have downplayed the problem. It's just hard to believe that so many witnessed his behavior and said nothing.
 
Delany wants the ability to fire coaches in his conference. :wow: League presidents could also considering removing PSU from the conference.

The Big Ten is mulling a proposal that would give its commissioner, already one of the most powerful men in college sports, the authority to fire coaches himself, The Chronicle reports today.

The proposal, part of a plan being circulated among Big Ten leaders, would give James E. Delany, who has overseen the league since 1989, and a powerful committee of conference presidents the ability to penalize individual members of an institution, should their actions significantly harm the league’s reputation.
Click to expand...

http://chronicle.com/blogs/players/jim-delany-wants-the-power-to-fire-coaches/30771
 
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CarolinaBuff said:
Delany wants the ability to fire coaches in his conference. :wow: League presidents could also considering removing PSU from the conference.



http://chronicle.com/blogs/players/jim-delany-wants-the-power-to-fire-coaches/30771
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I want a conference commissioner to have this power. Also wouldn't it make more sense if you did that for the commish to have the authority to fire the Athletic Director, not the coach. The AD is the one who is supposed to be in charge.

I have always favored the idea that sanctions would follow a coach. Cheat at one school and go someplace else, that new school gets the same penalties as the coach left the other school with unless it can be shown that the coach positively had nothing to do with the violations that led to the penalties.

In the long run I don't see any way that the B10 removes PSU from the conference. I could see a suspension from league participation for a period of time and a requirement to have an approved oversight structure in place as a condition for return but to throw them out would not serve the interest of the league or PSU.
 
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MtnBuff said:
I have always favored the idea that sanctions would follow a coach. Cheat at one school and go someplace else, that new school gets the same penalties as the coach left the other school with unless it can be shown that the coach positively had nothing to do with the violations that led to the penalties.
Click to expand...

Something like that was done in the Slick Rick situation after he left CU with a bunch of recruiting violations. He was barred from going on the road to recruit for UW for an entire recruiting season. As far as I know, that was the first time a coach was punished for violations he committed at one school after he had left for another.
 
tante said:
damn Section 106, based on the timeline, they are responsible for 9/11/2001
Click to expand...

Well, I'd hope interested "sports fans" would take notice of the timing here and realize that without Shultz's confidential notes, which Freeh's team uncovered, there was plausible deniability on the part of Spanier, Shultz, Curley and Paterno instead of what has been exposed as a negotiated trade - a stadium upgrade project in exchange for silence (and a dozen or more 10-12 year old kids' innocence). Yeah, maybe it's better college football fans help PSU fans ignore it... Maybe they can build a small water fountain somewhere on campus and call it the "Fountain of Healing" because we all know about PSU fans' need to 'heal' and move on... as quickly as possible...because some of them have already scheduled BBQ's and a propane salesman in State College might lose a commission...
 
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The rats are leaving the sinking ship. Some members of the Board of Trustees were privy to this scandal long ago and decided to do nothing. JoePa was driving the bus. I agree with posters here who call for harsh punishment for the University. Lack of Institutional Control. Shut the entire AD down and re-boot. Collateral damage is unavoidable and its a pity for athletes who were not involved but that is a consequence.

http://espn.go.com/college-football...eve-garban-steps-downs-jerry-sandusky-scandal
 
I can't help but think, almost to the point of knowing, not thinking, that this is going to get so much worse before it gets better.
 
Buffsoldier said:
I can't help but think, almost to the point of knowing, not thinking, that this is going to get so much worse before it gets better.
Click to expand...

I don't remember who said it but there was a quote "If three people know something, it is no longer a secret."

Considering the number of people who we know were in on what was happening and the length of time and severity of what was happening it is hard to believe the others in position of authority including trustees, legislators, law enforcement, and others didn't at least have some idea that something was happening. The problem was that you didn't buck the football team and more importantly you didn't buck JoePa. If he said it was handled, it was handled.
 
I VOTE we take this thread down and off the site... it sickens me to even see this creeps name - much less care about anything going on in this LOSERS life....WHO CARES!!
 
CarolinaBuff said:
Delany wants the ability to fire coaches in his conference. :wow: League presidents could also considering removing PSU from the conference.

http://chronicle.com/blogs/players/jim-delany-wants-the-power-to-fire-coaches/30771
Click to expand...


The "runner" on espin last night seemed to indicate they were looking at a commission, or panel, consisting of the leadership entities from each school; they could then recommend the Commish fire the coach if the actions brought discredit upon the conference.

#1. I'm sure this is an idea born of the events in Happy Valley. Too little, too late -- they're trying to make the conference look proactive. What's really happening is that the BigInteger conference is dusting the coffee table while the house burns.

#2. Doesn't this give the AD and school an "out"? If a coach really screws up, what's to keep the school from just sitting on their hands and saying, "well, we're waiting for the Commish to act". Or, if the panel and Commish do fire someone, the school (also dirty, we all know) can say that they've washed their hands of the situation and if there's any backlash on the situation, the blame rests with conference leadership.


bad idea
 
BuffUp said:
I VOTE we take this thread down and off the site... it sickens me to even see this creeps name - much less care about anything going on in this LOSERS life....WHO CARES!!
Click to expand...

MILLIONS of people care. This is a horrendous event that occurred and a very healthy and legitimate dialogue is taking place about how this could possibly have happened, and what should be done. It is absolutely disgusting, but highly relevant.
 
BuffUp said:
I VOTE we take this thread down and off the site... it sickens me to even see this creeps name - much less care about anything going on in this LOSERS life....WHO CARES!!
Click to expand...

We care because understanding how Penn St. got this point is to understand how to prevent it from happening again.
 
BuffUp said:
I VOTE we take this thread down and off the site... it sickens me to even see this creeps name - much less care about anything going on in this LOSERS life....WHO CARES!!
Click to expand...

It's relevant news and it is related to football.

I do think it probably makes sense to move this to the Pub once football camp starts and we move to "in-season mode".
 
buffedup said:
MILLIONS of people care. This is a horrendous event that occurred and a very healthy and legitimate dialogue is taking place about how this could possibly have happened, and what should be done. It is absolutely disgusting, but highly relevant.
Click to expand...

Said it for me. Well stated.
 
Bone Buff said:
We care because understanding how Penn St. got this point is to understand how to prevent it from happening again.
Click to expand...
easy to understand...don't touch little kids or take advantage of young impressionable minds.

I just do not like all this flying around and nothing will come of it. psu=free rein/ride/not even a slap on the wrist. come August, they will be on the field, getting ready for a game just like every other year???
It disgust me to see this pervs name!!
:bang:
 
At this point, the story isn't really about JS anymore. The story has become one of institutional negligence and how the unrelenting pursuit of football success can take seemingly good men and turn them in to accomplices to evil. The lessons to be learned have been relearned for millennia.
 
Bone Buff said:
We care because understanding how Penn St. got this point is to understand how to prevent it from happening again.
Click to expand...
If the NCAA wanted to prevent this from happening again, they would give Penn State the death penalty, but they are a limp organization that won't be around much longer. They serve no purpose, and the major colleges will drop them soon.
 
NCAA will hand down "unprecedented" penalties on Penn State. Press conference tomorrow at 9am Eastern.
 
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