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Sandusky update (more evidence against Joe P)

BuffsNYC

Clubber Lang
Club Member
I think people can acknowledge that rape and other forms of violence are real parts of our penal system, that the majority of prison incarcerated people are subject to, without condoning that aspect.
Sure, it just seems that often prison violence is referred to as a feature of the system, rather than a flaw.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
I think people can acknowledge that rape and other forms of violence are real parts of our penal system, that the majority of prison incarcerated people are subject to, without condoning that aspect.
I think many tend to celebrate it.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
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And after making a big show out of it the Paterno family and their lawyers come to a conclusion that they really couldn't put up a good defense for JoPa's lack of action in a court of law.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/last-ditch-effort-reframe-joe-paternos-legacy-fizzles-230319386.html

Sadly it won't make much difference. Penn State is back to being a school that places winning football games ahead of other priorities. They hire James Franklin as head coach, the same James Franklin who recruited the rapist and allegedly tried to cover up their rapes at Vandy.

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/04/james_franklin_vanderbilt_rape.html


What a big stinking slime pit that place has turned out to be.
 

Uncle Luko

Peckerwood
Club Member
Man, it just beats anything I've seen. A blue blood like Penn State doing this bull****, I don't know what to say really.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
Club Member
Junta Member
I would say the allegation of Franklin attempting to cover up rapes should not be thrown around haphazardly.
Thank you.

I think it's fair to say that he was more aggressive in recruiting and took more risks than what had been the norm for Vanderbilt. In this case, it bit them in the ass. I always assumed it had a lot more to do with Vandy not having an AD or investing much in administrative support to athletics than it did with Franklin doing anything nefarious.

But it's certainly a bad look that he seemed to take the PSU job to stay a step ahead of the problems he left at Vandy at a time when PSU's image isn't exactly sparkling.
 

MtnBuff

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I did state allegedly, also from the second article linked

According to The Tennessean:
The filing also includes a new allegation about interactions between the alleged victim and former head football coach James Franklin and former director of performance enhancement Dwight Galt — both now at Penn State University.
Referring to records, the attorneys said the victim was contacted by Franklin and Galt during a medical examination four days after the rape to explain "that they cared about her because she assisted them with recruiting."
It went on to say that at some point, "Coach Franklin called her in for a private meeting and told her he wanted her to get fifteen pretty girls together and form a team to assist with the recruiting even though he knew it was against the rules. He added that all the other colleges did it."


Earlier, when anonymously sourced allegations were reported that Franklin may have viewed video of the incident on one of the player's cell phone, prosecutors were explicit: "We just wanted to state clearly that there’s no evidence whatsoever where Coach Franklin was involved in any way in the cover-up or has done anything inappropriate."
At best these allegations if they have any truth to them at all portray a coach who is willing to bend the rules and put wins ahead of what's right.

If he knew about the rapes in any way and didn't act then we are talking about a rotten culture.

Just think about if instead of Penn State this was Head Coach XXX currently of the University of Colorado. Considering the attention paid to the errors made in the Tumpkin case I can't see a HC in Boulder surviving anything close to this.

I​
 

Duff Man

Moderator
Club Member
Junta Member
I read the same articles, Mtn. Those allegations definitely paint Franklin as sleazy, but rape cover-up seems like a big stretch. You seem to be treating allegations of rape cover-up as compelling, but those articles paint a murky picture at best.
 

MtnBuff

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I read the same articles, Mtn. Those allegations definitely paint Franklin as sleazy, but rape cover-up seems like a big stretch. You seem to be treating allegations of rape cover-up as compelling, but those articles paint a murky picture at best.
Cover up is far from proven but I think there is enough there to beg the question.

Considering the recent past history of Penn State you would think that they would not even want be associated with a coach who provokes these questions.

Allegedly is an important word but in the whole picture allegedly matters here.
 

Big Jim

WTF?
Club Member

Just think about if instead of Penn State this was Head Coach XXX currently of the University of Colorado. Considering the attention paid to the errors made in the Tumpkin case I can't see a HC in Boulder surviving anything close to this.​

I get it that you are a CU fan, but get some help. Persecution complex is a serious health issue.
 

MtnBuff

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I get it that you are a CU fan, but get some help. Persecution complex is a serious health issue.
You both don't see the level of response that the Tumkin case got with the CU admin and you somehow equate our staff to a guy who openly wanted to recruit "pretty girls" for recruiting purposes. You are further from reality that I thought, that wasn't very close.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
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Junta Member
You both don't see the level of response that the Tumkin case got with the CU admin and you somehow equate our staff to a guy who openly wanted to recruit "pretty girls" for recruiting purposes. You are further from reality that I thought, that wasn't very close.
My impression is that @Big Jim knows exactly how CU handled the Barnett scandal, he thinks it was bull****, and has a love/hate relationship with CU due to its culture of going over the top to be a white knight instead of being willing to get a little dirty, compromise more on academics, stop sweating the small stuff with violations, and paying/ playing the game like elite programs do. Through that lens, there's nothing inconsistent with him not thinking anything of note was done wrong by Franklin while at Vandy.
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
My impression is that @Big Jim knows exactly how CU handled the Barnett scandal, he thinks it was bull****, and has a love/hate relationship with CU due to its culture of going over the top to be a white knight instead of being willing to get a little dirty, compromise more on academics, stop sweating the small stuff with violations, and paying/ playing the game like elite programs do. Through that lens, there's nothing inconsistent with him not thinking anything of note was done wrong by Franklin while at Vandy.
But BJ liked to remind everybody how CU and MM so royally ****ed up the Tumpkin non-scandal. For some reason, there are certain fans who are quick to blame and shame CU, but almost defend other programs for far worse things.
 

DeNiro

My Dixie Wrecked
Club Member
But BJ liked to remind everybody how CU and MM so royally ****ed up the Tumpkin non-scandal. For some reason, there are certain fans who are quick to blame and shame CU, but almost defend other programs for far worse things.
In all fairness Tumpkin "scandal" and Barnett "scandal" are two very different things. Things aren't all black and white, and as things go down we can choose which side to land on have our criticisms of the program.
 

chipwich

Administrator
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Joe Paterno may have known of earlier Jerry Sandusky abuse claim, police report reveals


Authorities feared their chances of convincing jurors to convict Sandusky would plummet if the trial became about Paterno, a beloved figure for generations whose legacy was deeply tarnished by Sandusky's crimes and whose knowledge of the former coach's misdeeds remains the subject of emotional debate to this day.
"We structured the whole case around avoiding Penn State," a source close to the prosecution said. "We were terrified (of acquittal)."
 
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MtnBuff

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Not a surprise at all.

Very common for sexual abuse against children to be a multi-generational problem. The father abuses the kid who then repeats the abuse and passes it along to his son. Less common but can also be passed through the women in a family.

We will likely never know but a fairly high chance that Jerry Sandusky was abused by a male family member in his youth and acted out the abuse once he was in a position to do so.

Unfortunately while the abuse may be a legacy of the family it is so damaging to it's victims that until somebody figures out a way to effectively treat it the only option is to take the abusers out of circulation. The cycle has to be broken.
 

Buffnik

Real name isn't Nik
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Junta Member
Not a surprise at all.

Very common for sexual abuse against children to be a multi-generational problem. The father abuses the kid who then repeats the abuse and passes it along to his son. Less common but can also be passed through the women in a family.

We will likely never know but a fairly high chance that Jerry Sandusky was abused by a male family member in his youth and acted out the abuse once he was in a position to do so.

Unfortunately while the abuse may be a legacy of the family it is so damaging to it's victims that until somebody figures out a way to effectively treat it the only option is to take the abusers out of circulation. The cycle has to be broken.
Yeah.

No excuse for what he did, but it's very likely there's a predictable reason for what he has done. Good chance that his life was an absolute horror show.

I have no problem feeling empathy for him while at the same time wanting him locked away for the rest of his life.
 

cu2x

Club Member
Club Member
The only 'remarkable' thing to me is the preying on young females. I always figured a big component of a victim's offending later in life, was some need to see the abusive behavior as more normal and common, so most kids who are victims of homosexual abuse, act out the same way. I'm thinking this guy could mostly be a pervert of his own making - albeit with bad genes.
 

MtnBuff

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The only 'remarkable' thing to me is the preying on young females. I always figured a big component of a victim's offending later in life, was some need to see the abusive behavior as more normal and common, so most kids who are victims of homosexual abuse, act out the same way. I'm thinking this guy could mostly be a pervert of his own making - albeit with bad genes.
You are right that the abuse is usually extended on to the same gender. Not always though.

One of the things that the experts have come to realize about sexual abuse is that it is very rarely about sex. What it is more commonly is about power, about the ability take away somebody else's ability to control what is most personal, most private.

The same holds true for serial rapist. They aren't getting a thrill from the sex, they get their twisted pleasure from taking away someone else's ability to control their own body, their own self-determination.

I know it isn't fair to pre-judge others without cause but I wonder what a psychologist would find if they followed up with the rest of the Sandusky family.
 

L Buff

Commissar of the Albuffs Collective Left
Club Member
The fact that these ****ers are ranked #2 in the country, and people seem to be fine with it, ****ing disgusts me.
I share your disgust. However, I don't hold it against the players presently on the team. I do against those alums and fans who still stick to the denial of how JoPa and the administration failed (or even actively obstructed) the investigations into the reports that had been submitted to them.

Growing up in NJ, I was kind of a passive Penn State fan. They were the only arguably national power in our region, and it was also my "safe" when I applied to colleges. I was in fact accepted, and for many years kind of wistfully regretted (redundant?) not enrolling there. Instead I enrolled at a very good liberal arts/engineering college and after two years dropped out to pursue other "interests." Many years later I completed my undergrad degree at EMU while still working a full time at a job in Ann Arbor.

But I always kind of thought that maybe enrolling at a large state university (that was also "coeducational" as we called it in those days ... the school I enrolled at was all-male until my soph year) ... I might have had a more enriching experience. Now I'm more than satisfied that I did not enroll at Pedo State ... I would not be able to have any pride in my alma mater.

For all the problems and issues we've had to deal with at CU, I can still take pride in what is at least my law school alma mater. So I've got that going for me. But I must admit that whenever I see Penn State play, I feel an intense sadness at how disgraced their program has become, and how I can't root for them anymore ... even against tOSU.
 

MtnBuff

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Why we can't ignore this stuff.

Had JoPa and his supporters acted when they should have would his own son have done ended up twisted enough to end up doing what resulted in him now going to jail as well?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/sanduskys-son-sentenced-to-prison-for-sexual-abuse-of-girls/ar-BBGpdCY?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=ientp_edu


The Penn State / Sandusky events weren't something that can be pushed to the background and pretend like they never happened. The consequences of this monster are going to impact lives for a long time.

I am still angry that Penn State was able to in a relatively short time go back to acting like nothing was wrong.
 

Jalapeno

Deaf MOBA Warrior
Club Member
Kind of ironic that the son was a prison guard and now is on the other side of the jail door.
 

MtnBuff

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Kind of ironic that the son was a prison guard and now is on the other side of the jail door.
They will probably have to send him to a special facility. The combination of being a former guard and of having his offenses being against children pretty much means he can't be in the general population.

I know that Colorado has a prison program designed specifically to isolate and treat sex offenders at specific locations, I would be surprised if Pennsylvania doesn't have something similar.
 
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