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Shedeur Sanders - 2023-25 Tracking History Thread - Drafted by the Cleveland Browns (NFL)

Buffnik said:
He's not an NFL QB. I've been saying this. For reference, he is an inch shorter than Drew Brees and his hand size is an inch less (about a half inch below NFL average for a QB). Generally, when a QB under 6'1" makes it in the NFL they have larger than average hands (Brees, Russ) or are incredible runners (Vick, Kyle Murray) or have some other super power like Vick's cannon arm or Brees's pinpoint accuracy. Gabriel has none of that. He's just a really good point guard of a football team and he has hit the level where his physical traits and skills aren't enough.

I don't know what Shedeur's future is, but he's got the football IQ, work ethic and toughness to succeed.He's got plus accuracy and enough arm strength to make all the throws in an NFL offense. He's got great feet in the pocket and enough speed to steal a first down or two off script. All that with physical traits that are within the norms for the position.

Here are the combine measurements (Shedeur/Gabriel):

Height: 6'1 1/2" / 5'11"
Weight: 212 / 205
Arm: 31 1/2" / 29 5/8"
Hand: 9 3/8" / 9 1/4"

Only negative on Shedeur here is hand size, but there's no history of ball security issues.

With Gabriel, the massive problem I see is that while Shedeur is average size he's over 2 inches shorter, his arm is a hair under 2" shorter, and his hand is a bit smaller. All that adds up to a release point that is extremely difficult to overcome. Doesn't really matter how good you are at processing the position if you have to find clean lanes to be able to see and to get the ball to a receiver without having to arc it.
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Does
6 ft 0+1⁄4 in (1.84 m)213 lb (97 kg)10+1⁄4 in (0.26 m)
Work?

Never knew Brees had enormous hands
 
ZandiBuff said:
Does
6 ft 0+1⁄4 in (1.84 m)213 lb (97 kg)10+1⁄4 in (0.26 m)
Work?

Never knew Brees had enormous hands
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I mentioned that Brees had things which stood out. Freakishly large hands and long arms while almost 6'1", which contributed to a higher release point than people would expect for his height and tremendous accuracy + ball security. And he's the guy people use as the example of a smaller sized pocket passer being able to succeed in the NFL. He's such an outlier that he's almost irrelevant - and he's over 2 inches taller than Gabriel.
 
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Buffnik said:
I mentioned that Bree's had things which stood out. Freakishly large hands and long arms while almost 6'1", which contributed to a higher release point than people would expect for his height and tremendous accuracy + ball security. And he's the guy people use as the example of a smaller sized pocket passer being able to succeed in the NFL. He's such an outlier that he's almost irrelevant - and he's over 2 inches taller than Gabriel.
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Brees also had the good luck to connect in NO with a coach (Payton) who knew how to emphasize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, it was a match that turned out very good for both of them.

Talent matters and fit matters, Brees ended up winning on both of those over what we have with Gabriel so far.
 
MtnBuff said:
Brees also had the good luck to connect in NO with a coach (Payton) who knew how to emphasize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses, it was a match that turned out very good for both of them.

Talent matters and fit matters, Brees ended up winning on both of those over what we have with Gabriel so far.
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There are certain limitations you can't coach around. Brees was not an example of this. Gabriel is.
 
Buffnik said:
I mentioned that Brees had things which stood out. Freakishly large hands and long arms while almost 6'1", which contributed to a higher release point than people would expect for his height and tremendous accuracy + ball security. And he's the guy people use as the example of a smaller sized pocket passer being able to succeed in the NFL. He's such an outlier that he's almost irrelevant - and he's over 2 inches taller than Gabriel.
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Let's not forget that Gabriel played in college offenses where the OC dictated where he was going with the ball every play. Dude never checked out of plays or adjusted at the line. Hell, in that scheme the down/distance/hash basically eliminates one half of the field. This is why Baker Mayfield is on record about struggling when he first got to the NFL.

These are the dudes highlight plays for 2024 for **** sake:
 
Buffnik said:
Symptomatic of modern society. Most people come hard with ignorant opinions and then refuse to allow new information to change their minds. Usually, they just dig in harder while becoming increasingly irrational.
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Curious to know what the political leanings are of the S2 haters out there
 
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Da Lama said:
Let's not forget that Gabriel played in college offenses where the OC dictated where he was going with the ball every play. Dude never checked out of plays or adjusted at the line. Hell, in that scheme the down/distance/hash basically eliminates one half of the field. This is why Baker Mayfield is on record about struggling when he first got to the NFL.

These are the dudes highlight plays for 2024 for **** sake:
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damn, I would have loved to have that Offensive line
 
Buffnik said:
There are certain limitations you can't coach around. Brees was not an example of this. Gabriel is.
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Agreed, there are reasons why Brees was picked in the first pick of the 2nd round and considered a value while Gabriel was seen as a reach in the 3rd. Brees won in college against better talented teams while Gabriel benefitted from having more talented teammates.

With all that though Brees and Payton were a perfect match for each other. Brees was able to do what Payton wanted his QB to do and Payton maximized what Brees did best. That isn't highly common in the NFL and I don't see the Cleveland staff figuring out how to make Gabriel a high level NFL QB, certainly not the HOF candidate that Brees is.

The people who are trying to compare Gabriel to Brees need to do a full stop (as do those trying to make Shedeur into Tom Brady right now.)

Measurables are overrated, unless a guy is significantly outside of the standard range one way or the other. 6'1" Quarterbacks have been successful in the league, there are a lot of very good 5'11" quarterbacks in college football but almost none of them make and impact in the pros. The difference between 6'3" and 6'5" is not a significant factor, the difference between 5'11" and 6'1" is, especially if the shorter guy doesn't have extra level (Lamar Jackson type) mobility and long arms for a high release point.

Same thing with college statistics which can be deceiving. Quarterbacks at places like Ohio State and Alabama will tend to have inflated statistics because they have OLs that all end up in NFL camps and WRs who a #1 draft picks that are consistently open by 5-10 yards. Gabriel played in an offense full of play makers. In contrast Shedeur had huge yardage and an elite completion percentage with almost no running game, a vacancy at RT, and frequently needing to play catch up.

It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. I am convinced that there was some kind of conspiracy against Shedeur and along with many others the Browns GM and coaches were in on it. They ended up taking Shedeur because the owner told them to and against their wishes.

Problem they have now is that if they conspire to keep Shedeur off the team or off the field the owner isn't going to go for it and once he sees some live action in pre-season a lot of the fans aren't going to give the coaches a long leash either.

Getting an NFL head coaching job isn't easy, getting another one after being fired for being insubordinate to the owner is much harder, those guys don't like having their authority questioned.
 
None of this negative ****e would be relevant, and Cleveland would likely be viewed as a program on the rise, if they would have just drafted SS2 when they should have. But they are the Browns, steeped in a tradition of being late to the party without a dance partner.
 
I dont think the Browns are going to give Shedeur a legitimate shot. If he were to outright win the battle for QB1, Flacco would complain publicly as he often does. But if Shedeur won the position, it would mean the Browns would publicly admit their GM and scouts were trash. They would rather keep a player down than admit that.
Screenshot_20250612_164955_TikTok.jpg
 
BuffinCali said:
I dont think the Browns are going to give Shedeur a legitimate shot. If he were to outright win the battle for QB1, Flacco would complain publicly as he often does. But if Shedeur won the position, it would mean the Browns would publicly admit their GM and scouts were trash. They would rather keep a player down than admit that.
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Clearly it's been pretty easy quarterbacking considering the lack of interceptions. Given that, the low completion percentage by the other QBs should be alarming. I'm half expecting the Browns to trade for Cousins.
 
BuffinCali said:
I dont think the Browns are going to give Shedeur a legitimate shot. If he were to outright win the battle for QB1, Flacco would complain publicly as he often does. But if Shedeur won the position, it would mean the Browns would publicly admit their GM and scouts were trash. They would rather keep a player down than admit that.
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Weird. Isn't that pretty much Shedeur's completion percentage at every level he's played?
 
The Alabaster Yak said:
The fact that the least cool franchise in the NFL has, potentially the coolest QB in the NFL on their roster, who is arguably the most marketable player we’ve seen straight from college and will be the face of league if he succeeds, and they would rather root for him to fail boggles the mind.
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This makes perfect sense for the Clowns to do exactly this.
 
BuffinCali said:
I dont think the Browns are going to give Shedeur a legitimate shot. If he were to outright win the battle for QB1, Flacco would complain publicly as he often does. But if Shedeur won the position, it would mean the Browns would publicly admit their GM and scouts were trash. They would rather keep a player down than admit that.
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I don’t know, that td/int ratio is going to cost him
 
BuffinCali said:
I dont think the Browns are going to give Shedeur a legitimate shot. If he were to outright win the battle for QB1, Flacco would complain publicly as he often does. But if Shedeur won the position, it would mean the Browns would publicly admit their GM and scouts were trash. They would rather keep a player down than admit that.
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Their scouts ARE trash.

It is amazing to think, as stated previously, of the draft they could have had, just picking the best player available at each pick, without any trades at all.

If a QB coach sees Gabriel as a better potential NFL QB than SS#12, fire that coach. Have to think this coaching staff is not long for their jobs.
 
GawainBuff said:
There was so little wind up for long throws. Just amazing. He didn’t even need to really get his body into many of those throws.
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He was able to force himself out of playing for the Colts because he was an outstanding baseball player. He spent some summer time with the Yankees and based on what he was showing Steinbrenner was willing to pay him a lot to play baseball.

He was good at the plate, hitting for both average and with enough power to be a deep ball threat. In the field he got a good jump on balls, covered ground well, but the big thing was that he had as would be suspected an outstanding arm, they said he could consistently get the ball to the plate from deep with accuracy bypassing the cut-off man.

They said that to call him an HOF talent would be a big stretch but that he certainly could have developed into an all-star level outfielder. It was all projection because with football as his focus he hadn't spent as much time on baseball as other prospects
 
JMBuffs said:
Teams are salivating at the prospect of Kenny Picketts 59% completion percentage and Flacco's 41 year old leadership!

Browns are ****ing stupid
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The only way the organization should be looking at things is, "Does either veteran lift us to the level of being a playoff contender?" If not, you cut both those fvckers and head into the season with Sanders, Gabriel and (Watson) on the roster. There is absolutely no reason to play a washed QB that gets you to 6-11 rather than a young up and comer that gets you to 4-13. And I would actually say it hurts the franchise in the long run in terms of 2026 draft positioning and player development.

The back office has to know they're not going to get near the playoffs next season, but let's see if the Browns are getting smarter or are they still the #1 dumba$$es in the NFL.
 
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