Tad has to go

[buffaholic]

I'm skeptical that cheating will be so widespread going forward, given the FBI is involved. There not involved because they are MBB fans or amateur sports purists. They are involved because money has been changing hands in the form of cash in paper bags, and there's federal crimes when paying people, and not issuing 1099s (tax fraud), as well as other federal crimes that no doubt have been committed.

 

[Da Lama]

I'm skeptical that cheating will be so widespread going forward, given the FBI is involved. There not involved because they are MBB fans or amateur sports purists. They are involved because money has been changing hands in the form of cash in paper bags, and there's federal crimes when paying people, and not issuing 1099s (tax fraud), as well as other federal crimes that no doubt have been committed.

Last night you saw the change an FBI investigation can make to a team. Miller was/is a cheater and and his success hinged on it. Take away "bought" players and you have the Wildcat squad that took the floor and got beat and will continue to get beat.

 

[Da Lama]

I know we are all currently optimistic as the team seems to have turned the season around and been winning games.

Still though the question needs to be asked about what level of success do we expect and what are we paying for.

I know all the excuses about CU never being a basketball school (true,) about the facilities (partially true,) about the difficulty recruiting quality talent (also partly true.)

Especially considering that our administration is not willing, nor should they be, to go full scale cheat our way to the top it is reasonable to be happy with less than final fours and the like. It has been shown though that this program can be a regular tourney team but has fallen short of that in most recent years and will likely do so again.

For the money he is making it is reasonable to expect more from Tad than the program is achieving. This is not in any way a call to fire him but it is reasonable to move the bar up and let him know that without progress towards that bar he won't be a lifetime coach in Boulder.

Show me a coach doing more with less than Tad right now. I'll wait...

 

[RiverBuff]

Show me a coach doing more with less than Tad right now. I'll wait...

I love Tad. Agree he's "doing more with less". But Wayne Tinkle at OSU is doing a lot with even less. Having a good season -- 8-4 / 16-8. Our loss to them may be a "good loss", but it was at our home.

Tinkle's annual salary in Year 1 is $800,000, with a $100,000 raise over each of his next four years. The annual salary jumps $200,000 each of his final two years, with Year 6 netting him $1.5 million.​

 

[Zapata]

Show me a coach doing more with less than Tad right now. I'll wait...

Nate Oats. After a deep run last year, Buffalo will make its 3rd straight tourney appearance. His annual salary, $600K.

 

[Buffnik]

Last night you saw the change an FBI investigation can make to a team. Miller was/is a cheater and and his success hinged on it. Take away "bought" players and you have the Wildcat squad that took the floor and got beat and will continue to get beat.

Yeah. Had their top guys leave and was forced into signing a developmental class this year (kind of like a typical CU class) and then had to turn over the team to guys who weren't ready for it. It's a 1 year ding, though. They'll lose very little after this season, the young guys will get better, and next year's class looks sick if they are able to sign their verbal commits on top of the two 5* guys who already signed.

 

[dyemeduke]

Show me a coach doing more with less than Tad right now. I'll wait...

I love Tad. Agree he's "doing more with less". But Wayne Tinkle at OSU is doing a lot with even less. Having a good season -- 8-4 / 16-8. Our loss to them may be a "good loss", but it was at our home.

Tinkle's annual salary in Year 1 is $800,000, with a $100,000 raise over each of his next four years. The annual salary jumps $200,000 each of his final two years, with Year 6 netting him $1.5 million.​

And before Chris Collins' extension/raise last year, I think he was around 1 million. I bet we can find a handful of other coaches doing "more with less", but Da Lama's statement generally runs true. Tad does a lot for CU, and my opinion hasn't changed from years ago - he deserves to see this current group of sophs through graduation, but nowhere close to coach for life status..

For what it's worth, Rick George tweeted about the lack the student showing last night, and someone named Matt Klasco put RG on blast, saying when he was in charge of the student support at CU bball, RG was "not supportive of anything we did - you were an active detractor."

 

[absinthe]

Klasco is right - there is no budget, no investment, no planning, no incentive programs. Those things all USED to exist before they disappeared. When we actively invested in students there were more, we stopped doing that and now there are less.

Not sure why rick or anyone is surprised that when you don't invest in something it deteriorates over time.

RIck got it with facilities- doesn't seem to get it here.

 

[Da Lama]

Yeah. Had their top guys leave and was forced into signing a developmental class this year (kind of like a typical CU class) and then had to turn over the team to guys who weren't ready for it. It's a 1 year ding, though. They'll lose very little after this season, the young guys will get better, and next year's class looks sick if they are able to sign their verbal commits on top of the two 5* guys who already signed.

We'll see. I imagine the other blue bloods will smell blood in the water and start in on the "Do you really want to go to a school that had a .500 record (which they will) in a mediocre basketball conference with no media respect/exposure and that is being actively watched by the FBI?" message soon enough.

 

[BuffLuke80]

We'll see. I imagine the other blue bloods will smell blood in the water and start in on the "Do you really want to go to a school that had a .500 record (which they will) in a mediocre basketball conference with no media respect/exposure and that is being actively watched by the FBI?" message soon enough.

I'd think that's already happening.

 

[Da Lama]

I love Tad. Agree he's "doing more with less". But Wayne Tinkle at OSU is doing a lot with even less. Having a good season -- 8-4 / 16-8. Our loss to them may be a "good loss", but it was at our home.

Tinkle's annual salary in Year 1 is $800,000, with a $100,000 raise over each of his next four years. The annual salary jumps $200,000 each of his final two years, with Year 6 netting him $1.5 million.​

Tinkle does mediocre with less. Lifetime at OSU 73-78. This year is merely a blip. He benefits from a fanbase and an admin that gives absolutely zero sh**s about whether they win or not.

 

[Buffnik]

Tinkle does mediocre with less. Lifetime at OSU 73-78. This year is merely a blip. He benefits from a fanbase and an admin that gives absolutely zero sh**s about whether they win or not.

Tinkle is mostly benefiting from the fact that he took the OSU job the same year his son (a 4*) was signing his LOI, he inherited a roster with Payton and Stevie Thompson (senior this year) already on it, and Stevie's little brother wanted to play with him (Ethan's a soph this year). Talent has come together in a way that has given them very little depth and questionable prospects to reload. Tinkle's a good and accomplished coach, though.

 

[ahoelsken]

Last night you saw the change an FBI investigation can make to a team. Miller was/is a cheater and and his success hinged on it. Take away "bought" players and you have the Wildcat squad that took the floor and got beat and will continue to get beat.

Disagree with this. Arizona is down because they had to basically remake themselves this offseason-not because the FBI/NCAA investigation is hampering that program. They've got the #1 recruiting class coming in next year, and two kids I think in the top 15. Miller had one assistant get arrested, and Romar left there for the head coach job at Pepperdine. How many guys did they lose to graduation or the pros?

 

[Buffnik]

 

[gobuffs58]

why do we always have to do more with less around here anyways...???

 

[AeroBuff99]

Mr. Klasco has Casa Bonita on his twitter banner.... Which Allbuffs member is he?

 

[buffaholic]

How many guys on Arizona roster chose Arizona over Colorado or lesser programs? My point? Miller has at least a top 3rd roster in PAC12?

 

[buffgal]

Chauncy was interviewed on the broadcast and he talked about the lack of student support. He said the student section was always full and on it's feet when he was there.

I had season tickets when Chauncy played and CEC rocked. They did some women's/men's doubleheaders. WBB ticket holders could stay for the men's games, but there were not many seats. Some of my friends would get upset with me because I had an excellent seat. That was because I paid for it and had been a season ticket holder for many years for both programs.

 

[leftybuff]

why do we always have to do more with less around here anyways...???

I think it is altitude related....

 

[WarBuff]

Chauncy was interviewed on the broadcast and he talked about the lack of student support. He said the student section was always full and on it's feet when he was there.

I had season tickets when Chauncy played and CEC rocked. They did some women's/men's doubleheaders. WBB ticket holders could stay for the men's games, but there were not many seats. Some of my friends would get upset with me because I had an excellent seat. That was because I paid for it and had been a season ticket holder for many years for both programs.

My daughter went through whatever was required for students to get to the Kansas game a few years ago. Had to go to a bunch of games (which she was good with), and stood in lines for some time just to get the ticket for the game. She was rewarded with this

 

[L Buff]

My daughter went through whatever was required for students to get to the Kansas game a few years ago. Had to go to a bunch of games (which she was good with), and stood in lines for some time just to get the ticket for the game. She was rewarded with this

And we still have scoreboard on those guys ... and always will unless and until Bill Self stops being a wuss and schedules us again. Unlikely though ... he doesn't want to play us in Boulder since it isn't Allen Fieldhouse West anymore. **** his pussy ass.

 

[Yung Buffalo]

My daughter went through whatever was required for students to get to the Kansas game a few years ago. Had to go to a bunch of games (which she was good with), and stood in lines for some time just to get the ticket for the game. She was rewarded with this

Best sporting event I’ve ever been to. So glad this was while I was a student.

 

[WarBuff]

Best sporting event I’ve ever been to. So glad this was while I was a student.

For us much older fans, we are stuck with this for fond BBall memories as a student.

https://newsok.com/article/2058917/things-get-out-of-hand-in-ous-triumph-at-ku

Last month at Colorado, after OU won in double overtime, Sooner coach Billy Tubbs was accused of making obscene gestures to the crowd.
Tubbs vehemently denied those charges and asked for a public apology.
He also said the CU crowd had verbally and physically abused both himself and his team.
Until Wednesday night's game, the Boulder brouhaha was the worst of the season. It was nastier at Kansas.
"It was the worst I've ever seen," said Kerry Tharp, OU assistant sports information director. "The scene at Colorado doesn't even compare."

 

[jumped ship]

My season tix at that time were across the benches at half-court, top row – from that vantage point I had no idea how crucial XJ was in that play. Him throwing it off a defender (who was definitely infringing with his hand and arm over the sideline) to get better position was a difference maker.

 

[Robert Sorell]

Best sporting event I've been to is CU 60 - KU 59 in 2003. The crowd was lit for that one, and Stephane Pelle had a monster game capped by hitting a little turnaround J from the post to seal the win.

 

[BuffG]

I bet we can find a handful of other coaches doing "more with less"....Tad does a lot for CU, and my opinion hasn't changed from years ago - he deserves to see this current group of sophs through graduation, but nowhere close to coach for life status..

This is the even-keel take that mostly eludes this thread. Tad has won a lot of games. He’s also never had a team finish in the AP top 25 or go on a Sweet 16 run. 4 other CU coaches have accomplished at least one of these things. Every year, there’s smaller programs who outshine CU. Tad has earned the right to see it through with this young core. However, if he can’t do it with this group, then that’s 11 years without a legit tourney run or an AP top 25 finish.

This thread mostly just demonstrates how deeply stratified everyone’s expectations are of Buffs hoops. Mine include one Sweet 16 run in a 10 year span. 6 other PAC 12 programs have a Sweet 16 appearance since 2010 despite the conference being lackluster. Some here are more satisfied by stability and I get it. Arguing about other fan’s expectations is fruitless.

 

[Birch1]

We could put a little run together in the Pac 12 tourney this year. We got Nate back. Sometimes all it takes is a little guts.

 

[brettden]

I don’t understand your issue with this. Im saying there are about 85 schools who should be considered our “peers” based on conference affiliation, funding, prestige, etc. These are the schools CU should be evaluated in comparison too. Duh! No one cares that Tad has built a better program then South Dakota.

Don’t get hung up on the exact 85 number, it is a bit arbitrary. The point is averaging out to being ranked 83 nationally is not impressive...at all. Especially considering that that there aren’t many schools after 83 that CU shouldn’t reasonably be expected to be better then on a consistent basis.

Long story short we’re in the back of the pack and yet delusional people are unable to recognize this is the case.

If you are taking the 85 to include "P5 + Big East" then wouldn't CU rank around 45 or 50 according to Ken Pom? I am not sure what your expectation is here, but mine is (considering the investment in the program) top half of Pac12 consistently, contend for title every 4-5 years, NCAA tournament every other or every 3 years, NIT or other postseason tourney in non NCAA years (basically winning record). Sean Miller is making nearly $5 million per year (plus whatever they have to pay their players to get them to come there), Larry K is making nearly $4 million at UT. And we are paying less than $2 million for comparable results. Does the cost benefit analysis not ring true for you?

I would love for CU to consistently be top 25 in football and basketball. But based on what I think our budget structure is that hope is unrealistic.

 

[brettden]

Yeah. Had their top guys leave and was forced into signing a developmental class this year (kind of like a typical CU class) and then had to turn over the team to guys who weren't ready for it. It's a 1 year ding, though. They'll lose very little after this season, the young guys will get better, and next year's class looks sick if they are able to sign their verbal commits on top of the two 5* guys who already signed.

If the federal investigation involving AZ continues to make waves, I expect that they will not have that class arrive in full as expected. In fact, at this point with the NCAA sniffing around as well, I expect they will loose at least a couple guys to other programs. One can hope, but this could literally be the end of an era of AZ basketball. I can envision a very real scenario where the entire AZ basketball mystique is completely extinguished. Fingers crossed.

 

[brettden]

Disagree with this. Arizona is down because they had to basically remake themselves this offseason-not because the FBI/NCAA investigation is hampering that program. They've got the #1 recruiting class coming in next year, and two kids I think in the top 15. Miller had one assistant get arrested, and Romar left there for the head coach job at Pepperdine. How many guys did they lose to graduation or the pros?

#1 class before the classes are finished. If they bring home everyone signed/committed it will still be a great class, but will not be #1 (maybe not even top 10?). Bringing in the entire class is a big if in my mind at this point. Here's hoping that bear down burns down.