Tad has to go

[torero]

IMO you can blame our mediocrity in the last 5 years on one thing: guard play. Tad has had a series of BIG misses recruiting guards in the last 5 years ... Talton, Akyazili, Peters, Brown, Hopkins, Fletcher, Stalzer. That’s a glaring series of guards who did nothing for us. Even Collier had to come off the bench as a senior and never was the player we expected.

Two transfers - Namon and Fortune - flashed occasionally but overall were very underwhelming and at times were total liabilities.

Our best 2 guards in that stretch are anomalies. We got super lucky to get a year out of Derrick White. Why didn’t Tad get him before that? If you watch highlights from his sophomore and junior year at CUCS, he showed a lot of that play making ability. It wasn’t like he was a late bloomer.

And MW should honestly be at Dayton or Indiana. Random series of events drops him into our laps. Incredibly lucky to get him.

Guards are the key. Tad has a total blind spot at the 2 and 3. If he doesn’t solve that, this new mediocrity is our ceiling.

This is why I can't take you seriously. All the bad is Tad's fault. All the good is luck. That's an intellectually dishonest position.

Also, Derrick White is the epitome of late bloomer.

 

[ahoelsken]

This. All of these "fans" calling for his head act like we have a coach dying to come here. Tad is an olympic level coach who is very well respected and it seems he could be at a more major program if it weren't for CU being his dream job. The support of our bball team is pitiful, nobody ever goes to games and the stadium isn't anything special. Why would any recruit choose here over a big time program? Be grateful as **** that Tad wants to be at CU, I see him in the UMC handing out tickets multiple times a year. Look at all the players we have put into the NBA. Cant believe some of the **** I've read on here, idk if some of you are just angry people or stupid or both

Edit: Last year have gone differently if we didn't lose battey to some NCAA bs. Tad is playing against a stacked deck at every turn yet is able to beat teams like Arizona who literally pay for their players.

Let me respond to this condescending nonsense-One, last year's team also lost to a trash Colorado State team, and let's not forget about that San Diego loss at the CEC. Two, he "could" be at a more major program? Like who? I got to know Tad during his first year in Greeley, and I think he's a good coach and an even better person. If I had an 18 year old basketball playing son, I'd want him to play for a guy like Tad Boyle. Two realities here though-he's on the hot seat, and he wouldn't survive at a more "major" program. There should be no reason we're playing for 7th place tomorrow in a tourney field that is this ****ing bad. This OOC schedule was trash. We've lost games to San Diego, Indiana State, and Hawaii. There's not a ****ing thing wrong with expecting more from this team than the crap we saw against USD, for more than a half in ABQ, and the last two days. I don't want to hear about how we should be grateful that Tad hasn't left for greener pastures, or other bull**** excuses like this roster is primarily all sophomores. This is a results business. You don't win, you get pink-slipped. Period.

 

[Buffnik]

This is why I can't take you seriously. All the bad is Tad's fault. All the good is luck. That's an intellectually dishonest position.

Also, Derrick White is the epitome of late bloomer.

That's been my standard line to a lot of the haters. There are some who are reasonable and just reach a different conclusion from the same facts than I do. I don't have a problem with them, we simply disagree and either one or both of us are wrong. But we have some folks who seem to think that Tad is horrible in every way as a coach and then write off any success as him apparently being the luckiest guy on the planet.

 

[seattlebuff]

This is why I can't take you seriously. All the bad is Tad's fault. All the good is luck. That's an intellectually dishonest position.

Also, Derrick White is the epitome of late bloomer.

Oh gee, all I wanted for Chrismas was for you to take me seriously.

You can’t refute that that list of guards isn’t a giant reason we’re stuck in mediocrity. Guards dominate this game and we’ve sucked at the position for awhile.

And yes, White bloomed into an NBA-level talent late, but he had a lot of those dynamic skills earlier. He could have helped us immensely as a sophomore and junior. Look at his tape.

 

[MtnBuff]

The excuses here are terrible.

CU can't win because they have never won. There are lots of schools that don't have a huge basketball history until they made a commitment to basketball.
Colorado is 269th all time in win percentage here are some schools that are similar.
San Diego State 230th (poor historical performance. become tournament regulars with appearances in 7 of last 9 years)
Wisconsin 178th (didn't sniff the dance for almost 50 years, then turned into regulars. Played for a championship)
Iowa State 287th (made the dance 6 of the last 7 seasons)
And there are others, Baylor, Oregon, and Florida - we probably can't or may not want to emulate their programs, but it is possible. Tad has shown us that we can have a packed house and make the dance 4 out of 5 years. We can have recruits that play at the next level, we can win conference championships. All of that is possible at Colorado

It is the fan's fault. Let's face it, winning begets attendance. If the program is winning, attendance won't be a problem. The keg was packed a few seasons ago, when we were post-season regulars. To say that recruits won't come here because of attendance is a strange argument. There are many schools that pull in better players with worse attendance. Tad needs to think about the offensive and defensive systems he runs, because he either can't get players that can't run it properly or fails to identify flaws in their game.

We need football back in a big way at CU. We need to see a packed stadium and regular 8+ win seasons. Tucker was such a critical hire for our entire AD, I don't know if we can afford a mistake.

Outstanding post.

There will always be excuses. I can guarantee that each of those other schools you listed have had significant injuries in the past few years. Not every one of those schools has a state of the art arena and basketball facility.

It isn't as if it can't be done. Tad had us in the tourney multiple times in his first years here, we have been in a decline, not holding steady.

If it is an administrative problem then we need to demand better.

I'm not expecting a bunch of one and done players and final four trips. It is not out of line though to expect a program that competes to go to the tourney and occasionally advances a round or two.

Anyone who thinks that CU making the NIT is an accomplishment has settled much too low.

 

[seattlebuff]

Oh gee, all I wanted for Chrismas was for you to take me seriously.

You can’t refute that that list of guards isn’t a giant reason we’re stuck in mediocrity. Guards dominate this game and we’ve sucked at the position for awhile.

And yes, White bloomed into an NBA-level talent late, but he had a lot of those dynamic skills earlier. He could have helped us immensely as a sophomore and junior. Look at his tape.

 

[dyemeduke]

...this thread is sort of entertaining, in spite of its aggavating aspects - a lot of extreme statements made imo. Tad has earned the right to coach through the rest of NEXT season, regardless of what happens here. I disagree that he's this savior that some think of him as, but he is a solid coach. He'll be here, so may as accept the shortcomings of this season, chalking them up as growing pains as frustrating as they may be. I am not in the Tad for Life camp, but he has earned enough respect to fall short this year. Go Buffs, and early Merry Christmas to you ****ers.

 

[seattlebuff]

For the record ... I don’t think Tad should go, he’s the best coach we’ve had in recent memory. I think he deserves at least a couple more years. But he has to find a solid 2 guard and get that pattern reversed.

 

[Johnny Juzang]

Can we make UNLV fire their coach for losing to Indiana St, too?

I mean, they won a national title. Right here at McNichols! By 34 points! Fire... whoever!

 

[BuffinCali]

I think Tad is a good coach. He doesn't have up's and down's as a person - he provides a steady mentorship for young men. However, he is not a good recruiter. The only solid true Center he has signed was Josh Scott (and he wanted to stay in Colorado). Tad's vision has been to build a team of wings. The problem is, his teams cannot rebound. Dallas Walton, for example, is a project at Center and injury prone. Once he went down, there is literally no one on the roster to rebound and provide an inside presence, Tad relies on SF's and smaller PF's to play Center. This has been the issue every year under Tad, minus the Scott years. Poor perimeter defense, poor three point shooters and lack of big men has been consistent. Bottomline, he can coach but he cannot recruit and as he showed early on, CU is a place where there can be success. If Tad cleaned house and brought in Assistants who could recruit elite players, it would be interesting to see what he could do with great players. If he cannot show change quickly, I think RG should bring in another hire who has the same outlook as MT (This is a no excuse program)!

 

[Bison]

I didn't watch both games but my gosh...the fire Tad fans need to put down the crack pipe! Go check yourselves into drug rehab right now! You are either stoned beyond reality or just being stupid.

The main thing is to look at how many of our regulars are sophomores and freshmen. We have only four seniors/juniors. Next year will be a bunch of juniors in addition to some seniors and that is the year that Tad is going to have to get the team into a tourney. If that doesn't happen next year including another tourney miss this season, then it's time for a change but we are not there yet!

The Buffs are still a young team...get that through your thick skulls. That may be the problem because your brain isn't enjoying the cramped space in your head.

 

[GoldenSkier]

Let me respond to this condescending nonsense-One, last year's team also lost to a trash Colorado State team, and let's not forget about that San Diego loss at the CEC. Two, he "could" be at a more major program? Like who? I got to know Tad during his first year in Greeley, and I think he's a good coach and an even better person. If I had an 18 year old basketball playing son, I'd want him to play for a guy like Tad Boyle. Two realities here though-he's on the hot seat, and he wouldn't survive at a more "major" program. There should be no reason we're playing for 7th place tomorrow in a tourney field that is this ****ing bad. This OOC schedule was trash. We've lost games to San Diego, Indiana State, and Hawaii. There's not a ****ing thing wrong with expecting more from this team than the crap we saw against USD, for more than a half in ABQ, and the last two days. I don't want to hear about how we should be grateful that Tad hasn't left for greener pastures, or other bull**** excuses like this roster is primarily all sophomores. This is a results business. You don't win, you get pink-slipped. Period.

Yea the team isn't doing so hot and is on a losing streak from the turny, but where were you on the win streak? Why weren't you saying this then? Fact is our facilities aren't up to par and we have a coach that helps compensate for that. Last year the buffs were exciting and missing Battey heavily. We're like 12 games into the season, wait for all these sophomores to put it together. You seem like a knee jerk reaction guy based off all your posts, maybe I'm slower to come to those conclusions but I don't see a better option than Tad out there. You made a pretty solid excuse for us, this roster is very young. As for Tad, if you don't think he could be an assistant at a more major program or even in the NBA then explain to me why he's an olympic coach.

 

[rosstr]

The good: Tad is the best coach we’ve ever had as a bottom feeder. He had excellent early results, recruited at a better clip then ever before, got new facilities, had an AD who could promote the program, and runs a clean program.

The bad: after 8 years, W/L record is down, momentum is down, fan interest is bottoming, and Tad/AD can’t build a tolerable OOC schedule. Recruiting seems to be slowing. Tad has failed to develop an offensive system in 8 years, players don’t develop as well as other programs, and tad is unwilling to play dirty in an punishless era where you must be dirty to compete.

If the downward trajectory continues into the 2019-2020 season, I think you gotta thank Tad and find someone else. Sure it might be change for change sake, but roll the dice. Who knows. 10 years is long enough.

 

[Puddinhead Wilson]

I hate losing to weaker teams. The only reason you lose to a team with a less talented roster is you either get out-coached, out-worked, or both. The two losses in Hawaii were both cases of getting out-worked. This team is more athletic than we've seen here in a long time. They are certainly more athletic than the opposition this weekend. There are multiple people on the team that can score. There is better guard play today than we typically experience. But the defensive intensity comes and goes and the rebounding effort comes and goes and the turnovers - well - that's mostly a matter of focus. And the focus comes and goes.

And the comeback against the Lobos was a good example of the mental toughness we want and perhaps expect.

I'm a Tad fan. The team is young. But somewhere they need to flip the switch. This isn't playground ball where you can walk up and dominate. Everybody is good. You have to win by outworking the other team plus a dash of mental toughness and consistent defensive / board play. And when I see these blessed and gifted athletes taking something for granted - I get frustrated. And I responded poorly with a few posts written in frustration. My apologies.

Can Tad flip that switch? I hope so. I think so. I fear it may be next year before it flips as these guys are still young. Meanwhile, the frustration takes its toll.

 

[FightCu1414]

The good: Tad is the best coach we’ve ever had as a bottom feeder. He had excellent early results, recruited at a better clip then ever before, got new facilities, had an AD who could promote the program, and runs a clean program.

The bad: after 8 years, W/L record is down, momentum is down, fan interest is bottoming, and Tad/AD can’t build a tolerable OOC schedule. Recruiting seems to be slowing. Tad has failed to develop an offensive system in 8 years, players don’t develop as well as other programs, and tad is unwilling to play dirty in an punishless era where you must be dirty to compete.

If the downward trajectory continues into the 2019-2020 season, I think you gotta thank Tad and find someone else. Sure it might be change for change sake, but roll the dice. Who knows. 10 years is long enough.

What other programs are you talking about? Are you telling me that Andre Roberson, Spencer Dinwiddie, and George King did not progress during their time here? How about Siewart progressing? You are also advocating for us to bring in a coach that cheats? Alright then.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Siewart has been a pleasant surprise to me, so far. I haven't seen him play near as much as most here, he's been pretty solid from what I have seen. Agree with this post above ^^^^^^^.

 

[ahoelsken]

Yea the team isn't doing so hot and is on a losing streak from the turny, but where were you on the win streak? Why weren't you saying this then? Fact is our facilities aren't up to par and we have a coach that helps compensate for that. Last year the buffs were exciting and missing Battey heavily. We're like 12 games into the season, wait for all these sophomores to put it together. You seem like a knee jerk reaction guy based off all your posts, maybe I'm slower to come to those conclusions but I don't see a better option than Tad out there. You made a pretty solid excuse for us, this roster is very young. As for Tad, if you don't think he could be an assistant at a more major program or even in the NBA then explain to me why he's an olympic coach.

Win streak? You want me to get on here and post about how great this team is after they beat the likes of South Dakota, Illinois-Chicago, Omaha (nearly blew that one), Drake, Air Force, CSU, and New Mexico (who outplayed them for at least a half)? Lol. Last year this team also lost to a CSU team that couldn't wait to send Larry Eustachy packing, and lost to one of the worst teams in the Big 10 in Iowa. Here's another problem with the youth argument-all of these sophomores saw extended time last year. Tad is on the clock at this point-need to start seeing results, but I wouldn't make a move right now if I was RG. This tournament was a step in the wrong direction. Those first two losses were inexcusable.

 

[seattlebuff]

That's been my standard line to a lot of the haters. There are some who are reasonable and just reach a different conclusion from the same facts than I do. I don't have a problem with them, we simply disagree and either one or both of us are wrong. But we have some folks who seem to think that Tad is horrible in every way as a coach and then write off any success as him apparently being the luckiest guy on the planet.

The only luck I refer to with Tad is in relation to the only 2 guards we’ve had in the last 5 years that have been dynamic playmakers and scorers.

We are damn lucky to have Wright, that fact cannot be denied, and we’d be in a world of hurt without him. And with White, we certainly didn’t go the traditional route in acquiring him either. We were pretty lucky nobody plucked him from CUCS before we did. You could see his playmaking ability earlier in his career.

 

[ahoelsken]

That's been my standard line to a lot of the haters. There are some who are reasonable and just reach a different conclusion from the same facts than I do. I don't have a problem with them, we simply disagree and either one or both of us are wrong. But we have some folks who seem to think that Tad is horrible in every way as a coach and then write off any success as him apparently being the luckiest guy on the planet.

He gets a ton of credit for the success he had early on in his tenure, and he deserves it. Still, here's what he's got to show for the last four years:

2014-15: CBI QF loss
2015-16: NCAA R64 exit
2016-17: NIT 1st round loss
2017-18: No postseason

Most of us (even me) who have written critical posts in this thread don't want to get rid of him yet. He's earned enough credibility with this fanbase to see this core that his staff recruited through-but the results of late have been troubling, and I'd argue the 8-1 start was more the product of the bad competition than how good we were, and we've seen things that back that up. New Mexico is a win, but saying this team went down there and coasted for the better part of the game is valid. The Diamond Head performance in general is disturbing-no excuse for the first two losses. Fire him? Not yet. Do we need to see improvement all the way around from this program? Yes. 9-3 against an out of conference that will make the game at Arizona on Jan. 3 this team's first against P7 competition is unacceptable.

 

[aghcsm]

Tad is not going anywhere. A few places that would love to have him are probably not more attractive than CU. The risk of a step backward with a new coach is significant. What Tad needs to do is get better. Not sure if that means bringing on a “consultant” (perhaps a very successful recently-retired coach), hiring improved support staff, developing a more successful recruiting strategy - but for better or worse I think Tad Boyle will coach Buffalo basketball for as long as he wants, and improvement is our best option.

 

[Da Lama]

Then we have already failed. There is no hope. There is no future for CU football and basketball. Mediocrity is all there is and this forum is irrelevant.

Then go ahead and...

 

[Da Lama]

Don’t you know that ASU is an incredibly good job? Until Hurley got there, they had little tradition, talent or fan support. Somehow, since Hurley arrived, ASU has gained tremendous momentum, beating #1 ranked Kansas last night, recruiting incredibly well (not really from Arizona to eliminate that excuse for Boyle) with a dramatic uptick in fan support.

As Buffnik and others point-out, however, CU fans should be happy with a little better than a 0.500 record and any tournament bid whatsoever.

We could just cheat like ASU and Hurley and win some more games. Easy solution...

 

[Da Lama]

Are you agreeing or disagreeing that 20 wins should be the baseline for success?

THIS. I think this team gets 18 wins this year, but gets a pass due to the loss of Walton. I said it when it happened, that was a BIG loss and one most people kind of blew off. With Walton, this team is probably 11-1 right now.

 

[aghcsm]

THIS. I think this team gets 18 wins this year, but gets a pass due to the loss of Walton. I said it when it happened, that was a BIG loss and one most people kind of blew off. With Walton, this team is probably 11-1 right now.

Certainly Walton is a positive, but to say “if only we had Walton we could have beaten Indiana State and Hawaii” is a pretty sad commentary on this team.

 

[MtnBuff]

Certainly Walton is a positive, but to say “if only we had Walton we could have beaten Indiana State and Hawaii” is a pretty sad commentary on this team.

1) Every program has injuries, some more than others, some more important than others but this team, this roster, is Tad's. If they are unable year after year to overcome injuries then he isn't putting together a good enough team.

2) I love Walton as a player and love his story but when you have a guy who had two major knee injuries before he ever got on campus doesn't it make sense to go recruit at least one other guy who can actually play a traditional center position. We would all have wished and I wish for the future that Dallas is healthy but if him being out means that we lose to schools like Hawaii and Indiana State then Tad has failed in putting together his roster.

 

[BIGEZ321]

Tad has to stay. At least for another year. This team should be better next year with more experience under their belt.

However, somehow, Tad has to start landing a Blue Chip or two. It's great finding some diamonds in the rough (Wright), and finding some good athletes (Bey), but at some point we need some top tier talent to make it to the next level.

This current team needs better, and more consistent wings and shooters. Namon, Schwartz, and Gatlin aren't cutting it. Some of it could be Tad's offense too.

 

[dyemeduke]

Tad has to stay. At least for another year. This team should be better next year with more experience under their belt.

However, somehow, Tad has to start landing a Blue Chip or two. It's great finding some diamonds in the rough (Wright), and finding some good athletes (Bey), but at some point we need some top tier talent to make it to the next level.

This current team needs better, and more consistent wings and shooters. Namon, Schwartz, and Gatlin aren't cutting it.

Wright was/is not a diamond in the rough. Just because he was committed to Dayton doesn't mean he was lowly regarded (Dayton under Archie was a solid program to be going to). The kid was Mr Basketball in Minnesota, which has a lot of talent. He is exactly the kid that we should be landing on a regular basis in terms of recruiting profile. I'm with you that it'd be nice to land some blue chippers, but the NCAA scandal has opened my eyes a bit to how entrenched shoe companies and payments were/are. While I still think Tad needs to recruit better, the blue chippers are going to be tough to land. WIth that said, we are trying after Bryce Thompson and Mandy Sissoko. They're some of the higher rated players we've been in on as far as I know, and I wish we saw some progress with top 100 recruits every year... ...but who knows all the **** coaches have to go through with recruiting.

And your point is fair on consistent shooting, but come on... ...when putting the team together, you wouldn't have taken those three players??? You're crazy if you're thinking Tad should have found and landed better players. They have strokes; I look at the coaches to develop a consistency to it.

 

[Tatanka™]

Maybe that group that did the project for UT ($300M new arena that cost the school nothing) would be interested in the same sort of deal at CU where they get concessions & parking + a bigger chunk of concert revenue for 10 years until their investment is recouped and then it goes to a more balanced revenue share on those things.

It would be great, but is the demand there for a concert venue? The new Texas building will be the premier arena for the Austin metro area. A new CU arena would have to compete with the Pepsi Center, 1stBank Center just down the road and numerous other venues in the metro area. And I'm sure Texas draws more for basketball as well. I just don't see that plan being viable here.

 

[cu3x]

and replace him with? P12 just completed the worst league record for any December, the worst December ever for any P5 conference. So fire them all.

Many of you grew up being told how awesome you are, and you need everything else to be just as awesome. Tad is a good man and good coach, and suffers from the fact that only 5* skiers and Cross Country runners feel Boulder is the place to be.

 

[JMBuffs]

Patton sucked duck and our basketball heritage hasnt been sh** ever...anyone who thinks tad should go is under 25 years old and doesnt understand Tad is the best thing to happen to CU basket ball ever