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The jury is in.

BuffNut99 said:
Ok, I've been thinking about this all weekend, and the comparison still stands. Here are a few reasons why:

-after a 3-9 2000 season, everyone wanted Barnett's head on a pike after the loss to Fresno in 2001. We didn't lose that game because David Carr was a future NFL QB, we lost that game because of coaching, period, Barnett's experience aside.
-I felt horrible after both losses. Not all losses are equal, but losing season openers in such fashion (giving the game away and feeling like the season is over after one game) are in a class by themselves (probably second only to losing games where hardware is on the line).
-the 2001 CU team got markedly better throughout the season. The QB that started Game 1 was not the QB at the end of the season. The OL went from being average (with a ton of upside) to being dominant and the driving force of the team. The defense went from being average to being leader-driven and much improved (still shaky at times by end of season, though). There were some close games versus inferior competition (Kansas, Okie State).

My point being is that 2001 taught us that a team can improve drastically during the course of a season by developing an identity, developing leadership, and by winning some close games. I'm not saying that we're any good right now, but I'm not giving up on this squad. I still think that we'll have some results to be proud of by the end of the season.
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I was one of the first to bring up the parallels between 2001 and 2012 teams before the season began. I was real big and loud on this board about how we could really turn it around this season and win 7+ just like we had a big turn around in 2001 after having a bad 2000 season. I believed it and I guzzled that koolaid in a fashion that would have impressed Joey Chestnut. I was WRONG!!

Based on how the team played on Saturday there is no way we can have a winning season this year. We have some huge problems with the coaching staff, challenging problems with player confidence, and a frustrating problem with player motivation. Our team has no mental toughness, no heart, no fire and no passion which means we won't win any games unless our opponent beats themselves. The first time anything goes wrong during a game we will get snake bit and fall apart. My new prediction for this season: 2 wins, the rest losses. Unlike Joey, I can't keep it down...I puked up all the koolaid on Saturday.
 
BuffNut99 said:
Ok, I've been thinking about this all weekend, and the comparison still stands. Here are a few reasons why:

-after a 3-9 2000 season, everyone wanted Barnett's head on a pike after the loss to Fresno in 2001. We didn't lose that game because David Carr was a future NFL QB, we lost that game because of coaching, period, Barnett's experience aside.
-I felt horrible after both losses. Not all losses are equal, but losing season openers in such fashion (giving the game away and feeling like the season is over after one game) are in a class by themselves (probably second only to losing games where hardware is on the line).
-the 2001 CU team got markedly better throughout the season. The QB that started Game 1 was not the QB at the end of the season. The OL went from being average (with a ton of upside) to being dominant and the driving force of the team. The defense went from being average to being leader-driven and much improved (still shaky at times by end of season, though). There were some close games versus inferior competition (Kansas, Okie State).

My point being is that 2001 taught us that a team can improve drastically during the course of a season by developing an identity, developing leadership, and by winning some close games. I'm not saying that we're any good right now, but I'm not giving up on this squad. I still think that we'll have some results to be proud of by the end of the season.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem and going thru the season with these guys. We can all talk about firing JE today, but seriously who are you going to hire, Bobby Petrino? The university just paid off Hawkins, they are in no position to payoff Embree and EB's contract.

Let's see if these guys can clean up the mess they pooped in their own pants. IF improvement is not made then lets make a change. I don't subscribe to the logic that this staff automatically gets three years to prove us right or wrong. To me that standard has always been based upon continued improvement in the program. The loss to CSU clealy shows we have taken a few steps back from the Utah game. As another poster pointed out, OU fired Schnelenberger after one season but then went out and hired John Blake and then Gary Gibbs prior to hiring Bob Stoops and achieving sucess.

If the rest of the season is a disaster, we will not have to wait until a third year of results to answer the question as to whether these guys are the answer. Right now I like many of you have my doubts. Will JE hold Marshall, EB, Brookhart and Brown accountable? Will he make the necessary changes? The hneymoon is over and JE has to prove that he is the right man for the job. My expectations for this team this year have not changed and Embree and staff need to whatever it takes to get it done. If not then the administration needs to pull the trigger on Bohn and hire a new AD to make the coaching decision.
 
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Let's keep in mind we're not too far removed from the "scandal" years. Part of the reason we went with someone like Embree is because he loved the program, and he'd keep it clean and out of the press. Can't imagine the administration would bring in someone like Petrino, particularly when his scandal involed "women issues". I jsut don't see it happening. Not in Boulder, not on that campus.
 
Not only was the talent better in 2001, but you simply cannot underestimate how much a veteran head coach with experienced coordinators can calm a team after a bad loss. That's the issue that will not go away anytime soon.
 
jury is in and CU will be lucky to win 2 games this year. Then what?? keep a bunch of buff blood line coaches around? or get serious about winning and do something? we as fans, donors and "paying customers" deserve to see more and especially see more improvement, not just talk...
 
My impression of the current coaching staff is that they are far more concerned with running a clean program and being friends of the players and administration than winning games. Embree seems like he wants to be the players buddy rather than put the hammer down on them when he needs to. The chummy approach will not work with such an inexperienced young team. In my opinion this led directly to what we saw on Saturday against CSU, a bunch of kids that when the game got tougher than expected they folded. The true test for me will be this weekend because I want to see how they respond. My hope is that Embree lays into them good and raises the bar for their level of play and they come out fired up. If that does not happen this weekend then Embree has to go.
 
We can't keep excusing terrible coaching and terrible teams just because coach Mac went 1-10 once before winning a title, or because we went 3-8 before our Big 12 championship year in 2001. Not all bad seasons mean a great one is around the corner, sometimes it just means you're a bad team.
 
Hkylw21 said:
My impression of the current coaching staff is that they are far more concerned with running a clean program and being friends of the players and administration than winning games. Embree seems like he wants to be the players buddy rather than put the hammer down on them when he needs to. The chummy approach will not work with such an inexperienced young team. In my opinion this led directly to what we saw on Saturday against CSU, a bunch of kids that when the game got tougher than expected they folded. The true test for me will be this weekend because I want to see how they respond. My hope is that Embree lays into them good and raises the bar for their level of play and they come out fired up. If that does not happen this weekend then Embree has to go.
Click to expand...

You may not like Embo, you may think he is a ****** coach, but this statement is just incorrect.
 
Duff Man said:
Too chummy with the players? Don't buy that one at all.
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You don't think Embree or EB are more player's coaches than hard asses? It seems to me the boys were lacking a bit of fire and discipline on Saturday and a good portion of that falls directly with the HC.
 
Darth Snow said:
Some of the fan criticisms that come out when the chips are down are definitely funny.
Click to expand...

Funny? Not a lot was funny about Saturday's game. Tell me, if a team comes out flat and unprepared in the season opening game against an inferior opponent who do you think should shoulder the blame?
 
Hkylw21 said:
You don't think Embree or EB are more player's coaches than hard asses? It seems to me the boys were lacking a bit of fire and discipline on Saturday and a good portion of that falls directly with the HC.
Click to expand...
You obviously have never been to a practice or scrimmage.
 
Hkylw21 said:
Funny? Not a lot was funny about Saturday's game. Tell me, if a team comes out flat and unprepared in the season opening game against an inferior opponent who do you think should shoulder the blame?
Click to expand...

The coaches. But in no way is Embree to buddy-buddy with the players. Maybe you didn't watch last season, but Embree shouted himself hoarse in a number of games.
 
BuffUp said:
jury is in and CU will be lucky to win 2 games this year. Then what?? keep a bunch of buff blood line coaches around? or get serious about winning and do something? we as fans, donors and "paying customers" deserve to see more and especially see more improvement, not just talk...
Click to expand...

This part I agree with. I think we could win next week although that is not even a given if they come out like they did against CSU. Sac State might be more talented then CSU.
 
Hkylw21 said:
Funny? Not a lot was funny about Saturday's game. Tell me, if a team comes out flat and unprepared in the season opening game against an inferior opponent who do you think should shoulder the blame?
Click to expand...
This argument is strange in that it is completely unrelated to your allegation that JE and his staff are "too chummy" with the players.
 
azbuff said:
I think a lot of posters in this thread will be eating crow two years from now.
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you know what? I really do hope so - that would mean we can call ourselves better than Pamona HS, CSU, U of A, ASU, UW, WAZZU, UCLA, Utah and even, god forbid, UO, Cal, and USC
 
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BuffLuKe said:
I have a hard time believing Powell couldnt have scored from a half yard out, we run a pa roll. He threw the damn ball away, umm its 4th down, force that **** if u have to, backside te was open too. Yes coaches played a big role.
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I was screaming that at my TV. It's 4th ****ing down! Force it in if nobody is open!

EB should have told him that when he called in the play.
 
azbuff said:
I think a lot of posters in this thread will be eating crow two years from now.
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I will be more than happy to eat crow two years from now, if Embree turns this thing around.

At this point, I seriously question whether he will even be head coach in 2 years.
 
What a night and day fan experience between Utah and CSU.

Embree had the team fired up for Utah. That was a team that was hungry for a win.

That momentum, in no shape or form, carried over to CSU.

McElwain coached circles around Embree. Embree's game day brain farts against CSU are there for anyone to see.

The picture I'm getting is that Embree is reliant on seniors and team leaders to light the spark.

Without enough team leaders, Embree is dead in the water.
 
Buffarino said:
I was screaming that at my TV. It's 4th ****ing down! Force it in if nobody is open!

EB should have told him that when he called in the play.
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Lt.Col.FrankSlade said:
Yep. The very last things Webb should have done on that 4th down play were:

1) take a sack

2) throw the ball away
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The only thing I can think is that they told him NOT to throw an INT in the end zone which would have brought it out to the 20 instead of first down on the 1/2 yard line. Thats all I've got.
 
DBT said:
The only thing I can think is that they told him NOT to throw an INT in the end zone which would have brought it out to the 20 instead of first down on the 1/2 yard line. Thats all I've got.
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I sure hope practice includes lots of red zone reps between Webb and McCullough. #87 is tall enough to go up and grab those back of the endzone routes without much risk of a pick.
 
I guess I am just dumbfounded by how quickly many fans have given up on this staff. Maybe the frustration of the past 6 years is resulting in a lot less patience on the part of fans.

This staff has had one recruiting class they can call their own from start to finish and that was for a team that had not been recruiting much talent for several years. I don't want to make excuses for the game on Saturday because it was not good but this team is young and inexperienced and this staff has not had a fair amount of time, IMO, to rebuild this program.

Instant gratification is not going to occur with the CU football program, it is going to take a few more years.
 
BlackNGold said:
I guess I am just dumbfounded by how quickly many fans have given up on this staff. Maybe the frustration of the past 6 years is resulting in a lot less patience on the part of fans.

This staff has had one recruiting class they can call their own from start to finish and that was for a team that had not been recruiting much talent for several years. I don't want to make excuses for the game on Saturday because it was not good but this team is young and inexperienced and this staff has not had a fair amount of time, IMO, to rebuild this program.

Instant gratification is not going to occur with the CU football program, it is going to take a few more years.
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DBT gave HaLk 5 years (well 4 years and 1 game). He has given Embo 1 year and 1 game. I find it strange as well. I've given up on our OC and OL coaches for the most part, but not JE.
 
Skidmark said:
I sure hope practice includes lots of red zone reps between Webb and McCullough. #87 is tall enough to go up and grab those back of the endzone routes without much risk of a pick.
Click to expand...


Unless the QB throws the ball into the 4th row of stands behind the endzone, which is what Webb did Saturday against CSU.
 
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