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The Pac-12 Is Increasingly A Have-Not

patebuff

Downgraded to half a star
Club Member
I was thinking about this, and I guess I knew that this would happen. We would have a successful coach, and a team from the SEC or the B1G would come in and offer him more money than was in our budget. I was prepared for that.

This didn't feel like that - it didn't feel like we just got outbid.

This, well it just felt brazen.

"You have something we want, and we're going to take it from you because we have more money and we can."

And it wasn't even a blue blood. It wasn't Ohio State, or Alabama, or even Michigan. It was ****ing michigan state who pulled that ****.

That's the wake up call.

Getting outbid and most (maybe even me) just shrug our shoulders and try again, but this, this needs a different level of reaction.
It seems there was more at play than just money. Something went south somewhere
 

skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
It seems there was more at play than just money. Something went south somewhere
I think MSU had some personal connections they could use to get in front of him, but I really think the rest was all money.

In listening to RG talk about the negotiations (such as they were) I definitely was reminded of the scene in Dune when they're talking about negotiating with the guild for something and the character said something like "it was clear that they weren't actually negotiating; they were just letting us know that however much we could pay, it wasn't enough."
 
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InTheBuff

Club Member
Club Member
I hate Texas and OU as much as most of us but they are the last of the poker chips that can still be played.
Having a Pac 16 by adding a SDSU, UNLV or Boise is not going to add a damn thing. Get Texas, OU and whomever else
Texas Tech, OSU, Houston ...whatever then DO IT
 

CarolinaBuff

Club Member
Club Member
I hope this article is eye-opening for anyone who had their head buried in the sand about the "Conference of Champions". As the article laid out, these annual monetary differences compound over the years which adds up to a difference of $139 over the next 5 years. That's stunning. If the Pac12 is going to expand the only options which would add value are Texas and OU, like it or not. Otherwise let's hope the B1G comes calling if they want to go to 16 schools and let the west coast schools go have all the water polo and gymnastics championships they want.

Another eye-opener is that MT is now making more than any coach in the Pac12. And that's at Michigan ****ing State, not Michigan or OSU. (aside from Helton or Shaw whose salaries are unknown):
 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
I hope this article is eye-opening for anyone who had their head buried in the sand about the "Conference of Champions". As the article laid out, these annual monetary differences compound over the years which adds up to a difference of $139 over the next 5 years. That's stunning. If the Pac12 is going to expand the only options which would add value are Texas and OU, like it or not. Otherwise let's hope the B1G comes calling if they want to go to 16 schools and let the west coast schools go have all the water polo and gymnastics championships they want.

Another eye-opener is that MT is now making more than any coach in the Pac12. And that's at Michigan ****ing State, not Michigan or OSU. (aside from Helton or Shaw whose salaries are unknown):
What do you do if Texas says no again?

Consider what they'd be giving up;
  • ESPN and University of Texas Sign $300 Million Deal To Create Longhorn Network. According to several reports this morning, the much rumored broadcast deal between the University of Texas and ESPN has been finalized to the tune of $300 million over 20 years (2011 thru 2031)
  • Texas plays roughly 2/3 of its schedule in the state of Texas dominating TV coverage in the state and providing driving distance easy fan base access.
    • They charter a bus more than they charter a plane playing in the BigXII.
    • They might not even have to stay in a hotel for some games since its a day drive.
I could see maybe getting Oklahoma. But I doubt we get UT because they give up too much. OU has a lot of incentive from a recruiting standpoint to stay in the BigXII.

And Colorado would likely end up grouped in a pod with Utah, and some combination of Texas, OU, OSU, TT, or Baylor. Yuck.
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
What do you do if Texas says no again?

Consider what they'd be giving up;
  • ESPN and University of Texas Sign $300 Million Deal To Create Longhorn Network. According to several reports this morning, the much rumored broadcast deal between the University of Texas and ESPN has been finalized to the tune of $300 million over 20 years (2011 thru 2031)
  • Texas plays roughly 2/3 of its schedule in the state of Texas dominating TV coverage in the state and providing driving distance easy fan base access.
    • They charter a bus more than they charter a plane playing in the BigXII.
    • They might not even have to stay in a hotel for some games since its a day drive.
I could see maybe getting Oklahoma. But I doubt we get UT because they give up too much. OU has a lot of incentive from a recruiting standpoint to stay in the BigXII.

And Colorado would likely end up grouped in a pod with Utah, and some combination of Texas, OU, OSU, TT, or Baylor. Yuck.
Baylor isn't getting into the conference. And two road games a year against UT, OU, OSU and whoever the fourth team is wouldn't be bad at all.
 

married2abuff

Club Member
Club Member
I absolutely hate the idea of moving back to the Big 12 or to the B1G (or some facsimile thereof). The P12 just fits our DNA better and the other P12 schools are much more desirable places to visit and travel to.

With that said, the numbers don't lie. We're getting crushed financially compared to other conferences as has been well stated. If we want to keep up (or even try to catch up), a move may be required if the discrepancies can't get resolved soon...like within the next year soon. I hate the idea...just hate it. But I'd support a move if that was the only reasonable path.

I've got to think CU is quite attractive to the conferences east of us just as we are to the west.
 

MiamiBuffs

YYZ
Club Member
Baylor isn't getting into the conference. And two road games a year against UT, OU, OSU and whoever the fourth team is wouldn't be bad at all.
If you dont get UT is it still worth it?

My answer would be no because the TV gods will want audience. And only UT and OU together give you a near lock on the Texas TV market. This ultimately is why the BigXII canceled its planned expansion because TV wouldnt grant rights to the two new members. The rest of the Pac12 footprint has a similar expansion problem; theyre already on TV in every market in the footprint or the market gained is insignificant. Las Vegas might be the only outlier market. But those schools dont make a national splash like adding UT and OU would.

If this decision is purely about money to keep up with the jones then we should try to get into the Big10.
 

Clean Undies

Exploring the outernet
Club Member
What do you do if Texas says no again?

Consider what they'd be giving up;
  • ESPN and University of Texas Sign $300 Million Deal To Create Longhorn Network. According to several reports this morning, the much rumored broadcast deal between the University of Texas and ESPN has been finalized to the tune of $300 million over 20 years (2011 thru 2031)
  • Texas plays roughly 2/3 of its schedule in the state of Texas dominating TV coverage in the state and providing driving distance easy fan base access.
    • They charter a bus more than they charter a plane playing in the BigXII.
    • They might not even have to stay in a hotel for some games since its a day drive.
I could see maybe getting Oklahoma. But I doubt we get UT because they give up too much. OU has a lot of incentive from a recruiting standpoint to stay in the BigXII.

And Colorado would likely end up grouped in a pod with Utah, and some combination of Texas, OU, OSU, TT, or Baylor. Yuck.
nailed it. just because a faction of P12 fans want UT to join the conference doesn’t mean UT reciprocates.

Sips don’t want to be flying athletes to the Pacific Northwest all the time.

The preference from Texas is probably not to abandon I-35 and depart with OU to join the PAC

Just as likely they explore their own self serving tendencies by countering with a carve-out made up of some combo including USC, UCLA, Cal & Stanford, and maybe the AZ schools to add to the Big 12.

Conference killers kill conferences.
 

BerkeleyBuff

Club Member
Club Member
What do you do if Texas says no again?

Consider what they'd be giving up;
  • ESPN and University of Texas Sign $300 Million Deal To Create Longhorn Network. According to several reports this morning, the much rumored broadcast deal between the University of Texas and ESPN has been finalized to the tune of $300 million over 20 years (2011 thru 2031)
  • Texas plays roughly 2/3 of its schedule in the state of Texas dominating TV coverage in the state and providing driving distance easy fan base access.
    • They charter a bus more than they charter a plane playing in the BigXII.
    • They might not even have to stay in a hotel for some games since its a day drive.
I could see maybe getting Oklahoma. But I doubt we get UT because they give up too much. OU has a lot of incentive from a recruiting standpoint to stay in the BigXII.

And Colorado would likely end up grouped in a pod with Utah, and some combination of Texas, OU, OSU, TT, or Baylor. Yuck.
If the PAC took 4 Big XII teams to go to 16, then we'd likely be in a pod with Utah, ASU, and UA.
 

Kuratz

Well-Known Member
**** it. Try to get to the B1G.

California is a nice place to visit, yes, but the same qualities of warm beaches and tons of amenities leads to an apathetic fan base. Californians largely do not give a **** about college football. The steel grey skies and boring lifestyle of the Midwest create rabid fans that have made the B1G a legitimate rival to the SEC. Have to drive to Lincoln or Iowa City for games? Fine. The atmosphere is lightyears better and if I wanted a true vacation I'd go on my own accord. So what if the academics are sub-par? Michigan, Northwestern etc have no issues and the money would open way more doors than tangentially being associated with Stanford and Cal or whatever.

Go to the B1G for the money. Go to the B1G for a much better college football experience. Go to the B1G to have a real ****ing rival. Go so that we don't have to wait until 8:30pm for kickoff. Go for whatever reason but for the love of everything try to get out of a supercharged Mountain West conference that clearly doesn't give a **** and reeks with ineptitude.

It's not like this is in the cards but if the opportunity to leave to the B1G presents itself then by all means don't hesitate. Sick of having more fun watching SEC and B1G games on Saturdays than anything the PAC has to offer.
 

married2abuff

Club Member
Club Member
**** it. Try to get to the B1G.

California is a nice place to visit, yes, but the same qualities of warm beaches and tons of amenities leads to an apathetic fan base. Californians largely do not give a **** about college football. The steel grey skies and boring lifestyle of the Midwest create rabid fans that have made the B1G a legitimate rival to the SEC. Have to drive to Lincoln or Iowa City for games? Fine. The atmosphere is lightyears better and if I wanted a true vacation I'd go on my own accord. So what if the academics are sub-par? Michigan, Northwestern etc have no issues and the money would open way more doors than tangentially being associated with Stanford and Cal or whatever.

Go to the B1G for the money. Go to the B1G for a much better college football experience. Go to the B1G to have a real ****ing rival. Go so that we don't have to wait until 8:30pm for kickoff. Go for whatever reason but for the love of everything try to get out of a supercharged Mountain West conference that clearly doesn't give a **** and reeks with ineptitude.

It's not like this is in the cards but if the opportunity to leave to the B1G presents itself then by all means don't hesitate. Sick of having more fun watching SEC and B1G games on Saturdays than anything the PAC has to offer.
Valid points.
 

skibum

Did not pee on the Alamo.
Club Member
So what if the academics are sub-par?
Except they're probably not. Granted, they have ****braska, but the rest of the conference, top-to-bottom are AAU members. The Pac-12 has some high fliers, sure, but there are some serious dregs at the bottom. There's exactly one dreg in the B1G.

My only worry is that the conference seems to foster environments that allow child molesters and sexual predators to not only fester, but thrive.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
2019 Bowl Records

SEC Bowl Record: 8-2
Mountain West Bowl Record: 4-3
Pac-12 Bowl Record: 4-3
Big Ten Bowl Record: 4-5
ACC Bowl Record: 4-7
Big 12 Bowl Record: 1-5
Meaningless.
Oregon barely beat Wisconsin in the Rose, a Wisconsin team that was there because the real B1G champ was busy in the playoff. The rest of the games are nice but are reward trips.

The ACC as a conference sucks but they got a team in the championship game.

Big 12 has gotten blown out multiple times but they are in the playoff.

The bottom of the PAC12 is much better than the bottom of most if not all of those conferences. We don't have a Rutgers or a Kansas or etc.

We also don't have a team on the top that demands respect nationally like Clemson does for the ACC or Oklahoma for the B12.
 

WarBuff

Club Member
Meaningless.
Oregon barely beat Wisconsin in the Rose, a Wisconsin team that was there because the real B1G champ was busy in the playoff. The rest of the games are nice but are reward trips.

The ACC as a conference sucks but they got a team in the championship game.

Big 12 has gotten blown out multiple times but they are in the playoff.

The bottom of the PAC12 is much better than the bottom of most if not all of those conferences. We don't have a Rutgers or a Kansas or etc.

We also don't have a team on the top that demands respect nationally like Clemson does for the ACC or Oklahoma for the B12.
There is no way that OU should have been in the playoff. My guess is that the BIG 12 won't sniff it again for some time.
 

MtnBuff

Not allowed in Barzil 2
Club Member
Except they're probably not. Granted, they have ****braska, but the rest of the conference, top-to-bottom are AAU members. The Pac-12 has some high fliers, sure, but there are some serious dregs at the bottom. There's exactly one dreg in the B1G.

My only worry is that the conference seems to foster environments that allow child molesters and sexual predators to not only fester, but thrive.
This is the catch -22

How important do you want football to be at your university? Do you want it to be Baylor important or Penn State/Michigan State important or Miami important.

We know that every school has relaxed admission standards for revenue sport athletes but the question is how relaxed, how much "assistance" do they give to keep them academically eligible (UNC assistance,) how about conduct standards (****braska, Florida State, etc.)

We would all like to believe that our school can win without "crossing the line" but we also know that that line is drawn at a different place by different schools.
 

Boulder

Well-Known Member
Joining the B1G would be the best bet if you wanted a secure future for CU football. Natural rivalry with ****braska and it is a better academic fit than the Big XII.
 

BerkeleyBuff

Club Member
Club Member
I would much rather CU attempt to join the BIG than go through the cluster**** of figuring out how the Pac/Big 12 realignment would work.
Really? I'd rather keep as much of the PAC as is possible. If we add on Texas, Oklahoma, and two more to make a PAC 16 that's got a viable TV contract, that's enough for me. Colorado is a western school, and the majority of our alumni live in western cities, thus I enjoy staying with other western schools as much as possible.
 

onealcd

Club Member
Club Member
The big would suck for fans and alumni but unless those fans and alumni are going to maleness up the 15 million dollar gap each year with donations you can’t really say no.
 

TSchekler

Club Member
Club Member
Really? I'd rather keep as much of the PAC as is possible. If we add on Texas, Oklahoma, and two more to make a PAC 16 that's got a viable TV contract, that's enough for me. Colorado is a western school, and the majority of our alumni live in western cities, thus I enjoy staying with other western schools as much as possible.
If there is a clear plan, massive money like BIG and SEC and equal revenue sharing with Texas then sure. Anything less and I’ll take a piece of the BIG pie
 

Boulder

Well-Known Member
Really? I'd rather keep as much of the PAC as is possible. If we add on Texas, Oklahoma, and two more to make a PAC 16 that's got a viable TV contract, that's enough for me. Colorado is a western school, and the majority of our alumni live in western cities, thus I enjoy staying with other western schools as much as possible.
I do not see Texas playing ball with powers within the Pac and not wanting to have unequal revenue sharing. There is no reason for Texas to leave the Big XII where they pretty much run things.
 

BerkeleyBuff

Club Member
Club Member
I do not see Texas playing ball with powers within the Pac and not wanting to have unequal revenue sharing. There is no reason for Texas to leave the Big XII where they pretty much run things.
I didn't comment on how likely such a scenario was. I said if it happened, that'd be enough for me.
 

hokiehead

Gobbler on the Mountain!
Club Member
one of the main reasons I was opposed to CFB implementing a playoff (or any consensus national championship system) was that I believed it would drive a wedge between the P5 conferences and the rest of D1.

I am shocked, and legitimately did not predict:
  • how quickly that division has happened
  • that the gap would be even more pronounced between the top two conferences and the rest of the P5, never mind the gap between P5 and rest of D1
  • that the division would be even more pronounced between the top six schools and the rest of D1, never mind...
 
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