The Triple Option

[MtnBuff]

20 yard triple option pitches? I don't think so. Pitches were typically 3 to 6 yards. I think you'd have trouble finding any over 10 yards. Hagan to Pritchard in the Pigskin Classic was one of the most memorable long pitches and that was probably only 8 yards.

Certainly the huge majority of pitches were short. The triple option be it a wishbone, veer, or other variation was designed to attack a defense between the DE/OLBs. Running efficiently the majority of plays went inside the offensive tackles.

The great option QBs though had a certain number of longer pitches which took advantage of the defense pinching inside with the idea of getting a speed back on the outside one on one with a defender.

An excellent explanation of the concepts of the offense can be found here.


The RPO based spread offenses of today use very similar concepts designed to force defenders to respond to plays instantly and make a play one on one. Just like most of the plays in the triple option happened in short spaces most of the plays in the spread happen in short spaces. This is why the inside slot receivers in these offenses tend to accumulate big numbers of catches. Their receptions are the equivalent of the short pitches and extended handoffs of the triple options.

Also similar though is that in the spread option offenses the superior QBs can make a play look like it is going inside then pull it out to make the longer play to the open spaces. That used to be to the wide sidelines, now it is the deep pass.

The don't have to be frequent to be game breakers.

 

[Tatanka™]

Certainly the huge majority of pitches were short. The triple option be it a wishbone, veer, or other variation was designed to attack a defense between the DE/OLBs. Running efficiently the majority of plays went inside the offensive tackles.

The great option QBs though had a certain number of longer pitches which took advantage of the defense pinching inside with the idea of getting a speed back on the outside one on one with a defender.

An excellent explanation of the concepts of the offense can be found here.


The RPO based spread offenses of today use very similar concepts designed to force defenders to respond to plays instantly and make a play one on one. Just like most of the plays in the triple option happened in short spaces most of the plays in the spread happen in short spaces. This is why the inside slot receivers in these offenses tend to accumulate big numbers of catches. Their receptions are the equivalent of the short pitches and extended handoffs of the triple options.

Also similar though is that in the spread option offenses the superior QBs can make a play look like it is going inside then pull it out to make the longer play to the open spaces. That used to be to the wide sidelines, now it is the deep pass.

The don't have to be frequent to be game breakers.

I didn't need an explanation of option concepts. I watched hundreds of I-bone and wishbone games back in the day. I don't ever recall seeing a 20 yard pitch. Prove me wrong.

 

[MtnBuff]

I didn't need an explanation of option concepts. I watched hundreds of I-bone and wishbone games back in the day. I don't ever recall seeing a 20 yard pitch. Prove me wrong.

I wish they had more clips of the old OU games on there. No there weren't many but guys like JC Watts, Jamelle Holloway, Major Harris etc. put some pitches in the air for well over 10 yards. I'll give you 20 would have been a stretch but I watched (and loved) a lot of triple option football and the long pitches were highly exciting. They also served the same purpose that the occasional deep ball does in the RPO spread offense.

 

[8Jah]

People knew how to beat the triple option by the mid 90s. I think it's effective now because it is so rare that defenses don't scheme for it, and can't do much with a week to prepare.

 

[Buffnik]

People knew how to beat the triple option by the mid 90s. I think it's effective now because it is so rare that defenses don't scheme for it, and can't do much with a week to prepare.

Even with only a week to prepare, it's not such a big deal when you see it every season. The results at GA Tech seem to be on a downward trajectory.

 

[leftybuff]

The triple is an equalizer. You can get better results with lesser talent than you would with anything else. You aren't going to win it all using the triple unless you are very close to being on par with other top 10 teams.

That being said, GT has a .580 win percentage under Johnson. .600 for the 10 years prior. Hard to say whether it is working for them. On the other hand, they have been bowling 18 out of the last 20 years. Not germane to this conversation necessarily, but I would happily watch a Buff triple option team with those stats. The Buffs are .422 over the last 20 with 8 bowl appearances.

 

[8Jah]

Even with only a week to prepare, it's not such a big deal when you see it every season. The results at GA Tech seem to be on a downward trajectory.

Every team that runs an "unusual" offense gets an advantage in that they are harder to prepare for, but I think you are right in that advantage lessens over time. Advantage also lessens for bowl games when there is more time to prepare. Gtech has made it through their conference slate to go to 9 bowl games under Johnson, but they have only won three of them...and needed some good luck in two of those three.

 

[Buffnik]

Every team that runs an "unusual" offense gets an advantage in that they are harder to prepare for, but I think you are right in that advantage lessens over time. Advantage also lessens for bowl games when there is more time to prepare. Gtech has made it through their conference slate to go to 9 bowl games under Johnson, but they have only won three against pretty bad teams.

And the fact is that this is the same level of program performance that got previous coaches fired. GA Tech is a historical program located in the Atlanta recruiting bonanza. They should be an ACC power and the fact that they're not is almost criminal.

 

[Bison]

Even with only a week to prepare, it's not such a big deal when you see it every season. The results at GA Tech seem to be on a downward trajectory.

GT was so unsatisfied with Paul Johnson that they extended his contract to 2022.

"Aside from Bobby Dodd, no head coach in Georgia Tech football history has won more games in his first 10 seasons than Paul Johnson," athletic director Todd Stansbury said in a statement. "By extending Coach Johnson's contract through 2022, we not only keep one of the most successful coaches in our illustrious history right here on The Flats, but we also ensure continued stability within our coaching staff."

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...jackets-extend-coach-paul-johnson-2022-season

 

[Buffnik]

GT was so unsatisfied with Paul Johnson that they extended his contract to 2022.

"Aside from Bobby Dodd, no head coach in Georgia Tech football history has won more games in his first 10 seasons than Paul Johnson," athletic director Todd Stansbury said in a statement. "By extending Coach Johnson's contract through 2022, we not only keep one of the most successful coaches in our illustrious history right here on The Flats, but we also ensure continued stability within our coaching staff."

http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...jackets-extend-coach-paul-johnson-2022-season

I saw that and was surprised that they extended someone after missing bowls 2 of the past 3 years. What if he misses a bowl in 2018? The fan base will be calling for his head.

 

[Bison]

I wish they had more clips of the old OU games on there. No there weren't many but guys like JC Watts, Jamelle Holloway, Major Harris etc. put some pitches in the air for well over 10 yards. I'll give you 20 would have been a stretch but I watched (and loved) a lot of triple option football and the long pitches were highly exciting. They also served the same purpose that the occasional deep ball does in the RPO spread offense.

There are many OU diehards who have posted old games on YouTube...that might be a good place to check.

 

[Bison]

I saw that and was surprised that they extended someone after missing bowls 2 of the past 3 years. What if he misses a bowl in 2018? The fan base will be calling for his head.

GT is in the ACC which is like the orange to the SEC's apple much like the Pac-12 being the orange to the Big 12/Ten apple. If Clemson and FSU were to ever leave the ACC, the ACC would become a glorified C-USA/AAC much like if USC and UCLA left the Pac-12.

Georgia also has two other schools within the state that run the triple option which would be Kneesaw State and Georgia Southern. Johnson coached at Georgia Southern when they were I-AA before going to Navy and Kneesaw State's HC is part of the Johnson coaching tree. I would think that people from GT are well aware of what could happen at GT if things came together.

 

[MtnBuff]

You could make an argument that the CU teams during the NC years were a part of the end of the triple option. Certainly not the only ones but in their way a part of it.

McCartney and his staff went down to Houston and recruited Alfred Williams and Kanavis McGhee and put them at the OLB positions. They were both big enough to maintain the edge physically and fast enough to crash the end either forcing the play inside each time or forcing the pitch to go significantly backwards thus negating any advantage gained on the edge. By essentially taking away the outside option it allowed the rest of the defense to key on the inside plays and greatly reduce the effectiveness of the offense.

CU was far from the only team that figured this out at the time and attempted to do this. Nebraska, Oklahoma, multiple SEC schools and others were trying to recruit the same type of players for that role but because CU was a regular top 5-10 program at the time they had a lot of influence.

Many fans were not happy when Coach Mac decided to go away from his Buffbone and to a more passing oriented offense. I wonder if his timing was influenced by the fact that his own defense could shut down his offense in practice and he saw it as only a matter of time till other schools did the same thing to him in key games.

 

[Bison]

I know this might not be popular but who would be the best option QBs at Nebraska?

I pretty much would list Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier as the best Nub TO QBs but I believe I might be missing some QBs there. I'm defintely going to be keeping tabs on the Cornheads in the coming years with Scott Frost and the spread option that he is bringing to Lincoln. Those Cornhead fans are definitely excited for sure. I might as well add them to the list with a ? on them.

 

[MtnBuff]

I know this might not be popular but who would be the best option QBs at Nebraska?

I pretty much would list Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier as the best Nub TO QBs but I believe I might be missing some QBs there. I'm defintely going to be keeping tabs on the Cornheads in the coming years with Scott Frost and the spread option that he is bringing to Lincoln. Those Cornhead fans are definitely excited for sure. I might as well add them to the list with a ? on them.

I think Frazier was the best they ever had and had we stayed with the TO he would have been the best CU ever had. He had all the physical skills with speed, quickness, etc. but also was a great decision maker and executed the plays amazingly well.

He was also very effective as a passer as TO QBs go. His ability as a passer allowed him to beat a very good CU team and had a lot to do with them winning the NC.

I also think Frost is a very good coach but I don't see the corn returning to their glory days. They are no longer a prime destination for the great recruits that they regularly got during their glory years. It's hard to see them contending to win B1G titles against schools that will have better talent every year.

 

[8Jah]

You could make an argument that the CU teams during the NC years were a part of the end of the triple option. Certainly not the only ones but in their way a part of it.

McCartney and his staff went down to Houston and recruited Alfred Williams and Kanavis McGhee and put them at the OLB positions. They were both big enough to maintain the edge physically and fast enough to crash the end either forcing the play inside each time or forcing the pitch to go significantly backwards thus negating any advantage gained on the edge. By essentially taking away the outside option it allowed the rest of the defense to key on the inside plays and greatly reduce the effectiveness of the offense.

CU was far from the only team that figured this out at the time and attempted to do this. Nebraska, Oklahoma, multiple SEC schools and others were trying to recruit the same type of players for that role but because CU was a regular top 5-10 program at the time they had a lot of influence.

Many fans were not happy when Coach Mac decided to go away from his Buffbone and to a more passing oriented offense. I wonder if his timing was influenced by the fact that his own defense could shut down his offense in practice and he saw it as only a matter of time till other schools did the same thing to him in key games.

I think the middle LB athlete and mentality also evolved. In the 80s college middle LBs were relatively huge, especially in the Big 8. They were thumpers, but they were also slow. The speed an athleticism at that position really started to take off in the 90s. They could easily go sideline to sideline in the direction of the option.

 

[SeanMSan]

I know this might not be popular but who would be the best option QBs at Nebraska?

I pretty much would list Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier as the best Nub TO QBs but I believe I might be missing some QBs there. I'm defintely going to be keeping tabs on the Cornheads in the coming years with Scott Frost and the spread option that he is bringing to Lincoln. Those Cornhead fans are definitely excited for sure. I might as well add them to the list with a ? on them.

Being a Nebraskan born in the 80’s and coming to age in the 90’s. The names I’m aware of linked to “legendary” Nub QB’s are: Turner Gill, Tommie Frazier, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch. I’ve seen the last three play extensive enough to say that Frazier was top billing in my opinion. I never really saw Gill play. Frost had luck and some pretty good athletes surrounding him. Crouch, while flashing some athletic brilliance, also seemed to be as good as the surrounding teammates (key in on the 62-36 Black Friday massacre). Frazier just seemed to have a little more leadership qualities to him at that age and time.

 

[Bison]

You could make an argument that the CU teams during the NC years were a part of the end of the triple option. Certainly not the only ones but in their way a part of it.

McCartney and his staff went down to Houston and recruited Alfred Williams and Kanavis McGhee and put them at the OLB positions. They were both big enough to maintain the edge physically and fast enough to crash the end either forcing the play inside each time or forcing the pitch to go significantly backwards thus negating any advantage gained on the edge. By essentially taking away the outside option it allowed the rest of the defense to key on the inside plays and greatly reduce the effectiveness of the offense.

CU was far from the only team that figured this out at the time and attempted to do this. Nebraska, Oklahoma, multiple SEC schools and others were trying to recruit the same type of players for that role but because CU was a regular top 5-10 program at the time they had a lot of influence.

Many fans were not happy when Coach Mac decided to go away from his Buffbone and to a more passing oriented offense. I wonder if his timing was influenced by the fact that his own defense could shut down his offense in practice and he saw it as only a matter of time till other schools did the same thing to him in key games.

Bill McCartney had already talked about spread offenses becoming the future of football especially after seeing Miami Fl win some NCs in the 1980s and McCartney was probably aiming to staying ahead of the curve in that case. Let's say McCartney didn't intend to stay with the Buffbone for the long term and McCartney wasn't the only coach to scrap the triple option. Nebraska stuck with the triple option until Bill Callahan was hired and now they are somewhat going back under Frost.

It's true that big OLBs and fast DEs would be able to stop those option games on the outside. Normally those option QBs weren't future NFL QBs but they could be efficient with their throws and CU already had good DBs as well.

Bill Snyder loves to force opposing defensive coordinators into extra prep work by using as many formations as he could but keeping the same base plays and it worked out really good for him over the long run. If coaches like McCartney had more variety in their offenses, moving away from the triple option wouldn't have been quite as necessary. You also have a team like New Mexico which has the triple option out of the shotgun and pistol formations. They might have stunk last year but doing a little research on them would show you that they once lost three QBs in the same game so losing all those QBs probably had an effect on them. I recall one season where Nebraska lost Tommie Frazier for a huge part of the season and Brook Berringer was there to pick up the slack. I think even Brook got hurt in some games and the Cornheads had to go to the third QB but they managed to win the NC that year.

And Nebraska had quite a few good OL players as well to open up those holes. Those would have helped against those strong DE/OLB players. Let's say Nebraska didn't have quite the OL under Solich and he got canned as a result.

 

[Bison]

Being a Nebraskan born in the 80’s and coming to age in the 90’s. The names I’m aware of linked to “legendary” Nub QB’s are: Turner Gill, Tommie Frazier, Scott Frost, and Eric Crouch. I’ve seen the last three play extensive enough to say that Frazier was top billing in my opinion. I never really saw Gill play. Frost had luck and some pretty good athletes surrounding him. Crouch, while flashing some athletic brilliance, also seemed to be as good as the surrounding teammates (key in on the 62-36 Black Friday massacre). Frazier just seemed to have a little more leadership qualities to him at that age and time.

Agree with those characteristics about Frazier plus Frazier seemed to run the option better than Frost and Crouch.

 

[leftybuff]

I would agree Frazier was the best NU TO QB, maybe the best of all.

 

[CitizenKane]

I know this might not be popular but who would be the best option QBs at Nebraska?

I pretty much would list Eric Crouch and Tommie Frazier as the best Nub TO QBs but I believe I might be missing some QBs there. I'm defintely going to be keeping tabs on the Cornheads in the coming years with Scott Frost and the spread option that he is bringing to Lincoln. Those Cornhead fans are definitely excited for sure. I might as well add them to the list with a ? on them.

Nebraska has had two great option QB's. Frazier and Gill. The other guys were nice but not great. What would be a more interesting discussion is who was the better option QB:
1. Frazier (Neb)
2. Gill (Neb)
3. Hagan (CU)
4. Holieway (Oklahoma)

 

[BuffLuke80]

My favorite CU offense was the 94 version. They ran some option, not triple, but Kordell and Rashaan were quite dangerous with it.

 

[leftybuff]

Nebraska has had two great option QB's. Frazier and Gill. The other guys were nice but not great. What would be a more interesting discussion is who was the better option QB:
1. Frazier (Neb)
2. Gill (Neb)
3. Hagan (CU)
4. Holieway (Oklahoma)

For me it comes down to Hagan and Frazier. As much as I hate to say it, if I had to choose one, I would go with Frazier, but just barely.

 

[BuffLuke80]

For me it comes down to Hagan and Frazier. As much as I hate to say it, if I had to choose one, I would go with Frazier, but just barely.

Be hard not to pick Frazier imho. Hagan was up there as well.

 

[Buffnik]

Best option QB I ever saw was OU's Jamelle Hollieway.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Best option QB I ever saw was OU's Jamelle Hollieway.

He was special too man. I was pretty young when he was playing but I did see him play quite a bit. Some games via YouTube.

 

[MtnBuff]

Best option QB I ever saw was OU's Jamelle Hollieway.

I would pick Frazier because of his playmaking and decision making but Hollieway may have been the most exciting to ever play the position. He was an absolute threat to break a huge gain on every snap of the ball, just electric.

 

[Highlander]

Best option QB I ever saw was OU's Jamelle Hollieway.

Him and Charles Thompson were absolute freaks of nature.

IIRC, both got hurt (or worse) and didn't have as good of career numbers as some of the others in the conversation.

 

[BuffLuke80]

Frazier was a bigger guy running the option too. Not somebody easy to bring down if you got ahold of him.

 

[leftybuff]

Frazier was a bigger guy running the option too. Not somebody easy to bring down if you got ahold of him.

To me, that is the small difference that makes Frazier the best of the group of Hagan, Holieway and Frazier. TF broke a lot of arm tackles. Any of the three were phenomenal.