Flatirons?
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This is why you can't build from the outside in
- Thread starter Buffnik
- Start date
This time of year there are a lot games with a huge disparity between the talent on each team. Watching some of those games, I haven’t seen OL’s getting worked as badly as CU’s OL has last year and so far this year. It’s not a talent issue. It is 90% coaching/scheme and 10% just getting more reps playing together as a unit. These guys are being placed in a situation set up for failure, and throwing them under the bus every week will just ensure they move on next year to find success elsewhere. Without some major changes, eventually even CP won’t be able to draw top talent to the program.
I was wondering about this. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
Hiring a first time coach to help your weakest group from the year before was a bold move.
Not saying it on loadholt because there were tons and tons of execution issues. But unless we see miraculous improvement I think our ceiling is bowl eligible.
That would be huge for the program but with all the hype and 2 and 12 the rest of the world won’t view this as a success.
We have to build a pipeline on the lines and develop guys and that is going to take some time.
Not saying it on loadholt because there were tons and tons of execution issues. But unless we see miraculous improvement I think our ceiling is bowl eligible.
That would be huge for the program but with all the hype and 2 and 12 the rest of the world won’t view this as a success.
We have to build a pipeline on the lines and develop guys and that is going to take some time.
CP should totally stop the videos and run hard-nosed practices.
Watching youtube leaves me with the feeling there's too much emphasis on the videos.
I wonder how the kids that no one wants to feature on video, feel about those who are constantly being filmed. I'd guess there's some resentment; and some desire to just get to work..
Talking about how much they believe everything is good, doesn't make it so.
Every other time he played, I thought Staub looked good. Not so much yesterday
Watching youtube leaves me with the feeling there's too much emphasis on the videos.
I wonder how the kids that no one wants to feature on video, feel about those who are constantly being filmed. I'd guess there's some resentment; and some desire to just get to work..
Talking about how much they believe everything is good, doesn't make it so.
Every other time he played, I thought Staub looked good. Not so much yesterday
This is who he is, you will never see that happen
Fogo
Well-Known Member
I've always felt that is one of the downfalls of NIL too. I'm not saying to stop NIL, I'm just saying that is one of the downfalls of it. Have and Have nots does create resentment in kids.
thegoldenstrand
Well-Known Member
Who is making and designing the offensive plays and choosing which players to be used? Shurmer? Maybe game has passed him by. Whoever is in charge of film work for coaches needs to be fired.. almost all of the issues and problems CU faced on both sides of the ball were to be seen on film, yet the game plan and the schemes make it seem they were ignored or no film work with any kind of understanding was undertaken and used. Bad clock managment.. is calling time outs and asking for measurements beneath Prime or whatever assistant he placed in charge of this?
I don’t believe for a second that Benson only allowed 1 pressure. Regardless, the Tyler Brown at RT experiment has to end. He needs to be playing Guard and I believe he has a year of eligibility left so he needs to start getting that experience and continuity with Hank now. If they can return 3/5 OL starters next year, that will go a long way.
thegoldenstrand
Well-Known Member
Benson is doing pretty well playing out of position at guard, when he is better at tackle.. Tyler Johnson is only third team??? He would grade much better at guard than either guard did against Nebraska. But coaching, coaching, coaching.. that is what is needed here and maybe responsible for more of the bad than any of the lineman. Good coaching and preparation would solve virtually all of the problems.. the coaching is almost bad by design like in some Vince McMahon movie. Could the opening plays leading to a sack and quick three and out and first down call from two yard line leading to the pick six have been any worse?
Both the offense and Defense did some of the worst things scheme and play call wise as possible.. Freshmen QB.. and yet run D's easiest for QB to read like simple man.. meanwhile NU makes offensive play calls that work best against man and CU stays in man.. (shrug). Where did play book come from on offense and who designed, created or approved some of these plays that make no sense for CU to run given trouble protecting 2 and given usually zone pass coverage by NU.
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thegoldenstrand
Well-Known Member
Offensive line is not as much a problem as how it is being used ..
My starters would be:
LT Seaton
LG Mayers/Brown
C Hank
RG Tyler Johnson
RT Khahlil
Line looks much worse because of schemes and plays called..
Imagine how the team and line would look with good coaching and good play call design and coaching.
For instance, once Nebraska given, big lead.. with one dimensional play schemes.. pass substantially all of time.. NU could just tee off and this would make most college lines look bad.
Game plan, especially early on on O, looks like it was designed to fail.
My starters would be:
LT Seaton
LG Mayers/Brown
C Hank
RG Tyler Johnson
RT Khahlil
Line looks much worse because of schemes and plays called..
Imagine how the team and line would look with good coaching and good play call design and coaching.
For instance, once Nebraska given, big lead.. with one dimensional play schemes.. pass substantially all of time.. NU could just tee off and this would make most college lines look bad.
Game plan, especially early on on O, looks like it was designed to fail.
Mayers is a legit player. Tyler Brown should have worked at Center all offseason and started over Hank. The rest I agree with
Is there more to the story with Tyler Johnson we don't know about? Or is he just not good enough?
GRM
I'm a ****ty troll
PFF is very interesting. The tackles were not great by any means, but the bull rush by that monster DT was the real menace + his inside partners. That inside pressure forced SS to move one way or another, thus the outside tackles on wide splits took heat. For whatever reason, SS did not look as fleet of foot, as pre-injury last year, but I'm not sure he would have broken a ton of plays early either. @Buffnik--you hit it on the head about the downsides of building outside-in. Offensive lines take time playing together, and I still believe we have more talent than last year for this to jel. I sort of found CU/Shurmer playing Offense 1.5, whereby the staff has not yet really incorporated any fall back scenarios, short yardage packages, or others adjustments. Sometimes O's must adjust playing different ways. The O is definitely NOT as far along as I thought they would be, and it is just not the Oline, but game-planning and layering in more concepts too.
Staying in SG spread seemed to exacerbate things. When the Monster DT and middle is such a problem, on option is the Oline narrows its splits, perhaps using a pistol or something like that, with off ramps for SS to roll out or throw other short options. For rushing yards, it seems counter-intuitive, however for the runners, they get the ball closer to the LOS simply with a stride or two, then hopefully hit the hole, however big or small squeezing whatever yards the gap presents. It is just less time and space the D gets to blow up the play, and the RB is not stuttering around looking for holes. Who knows, Welsh may be that back--run low to the ground. Adjusting to that, you hope to stay in some decent downs and distances. 2&6, 3rd &4, not 3rd and 13. I felt in the 1st half SS could mostly snap off the 8-10 yard routes, for hopes to move chains. The passes have to be there and be caught. Also, using designed rolls if one side of the Oline is having a better time of it.
Although CU lacks TE's, they should have still had a counter to that. Play an Hback, add another lineman, (gag) 2 rb set... I found it real odd that CO was pass blocking early, given DH did a decent job v. NDSU and carries 20 more pounds. He or Augustavive would be the guy to try and shut that NT, block an inside gap, or better pick up a blitz. I don't think kNU needed to blitz much, but if the back is there or drops off to catch pass, SS should recognize and attempt to roll out to buying time or use the back as an outlet. Still puzzled with CO playing over DH, since DH catches the ball better.
Most troubling stat, CU against loses time of possession like 21-9 for the 1st half. 3.5 minutes in the 1st Q. SS pick had some to do with that, but the other drives were not barnburners either. CU is not going to win games on the road with TOP stats like that, unless the O is scoring on every drive. Vlasset's ill timed 30 yard punt hurt too.
Tough loss. Both teams played hard, dirty at times, flags galore. Props to the D for stepping up some, kNU went ball protect but they showed signs even with injuries and ejections. They made 2 key stops in the 1st half. In sum, they kept it from being a complete slaughter. kNU's last TD was a fluke, Bentley will want that play back, but at least he was there trying to make a play.
Thankfully, the sun did come up this morning and we have 10 more games to right this ship. I'm still on the CU bandwagon!
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Nobody seems to know. Guy was a good starter at Houston last year and one of the first OL transfers they targeted. He’s also a grad transfer with one year left, so I can’t imagine riding the bench was the plan.
My gut says he's in the doghouse for something, but he seems like a quiet, nice guy in the well off videos, but who knows? Maybe he's just not good enough.
JonSergeantMajor
Well-Known Member
CP is not good at clock management and contributes nothing to the actual coaching.
Besides highlighting his sons and Travis Hunter, he really doesn’t do much.
CP still hasn’t made a single in-home recruiting visit since he got hired, which is something than even Saban would do on the regular.
“I ain’t hard to find” is a catchy phrase, but he also has to search, which seems to be beneath CP.
Besides highlighting his sons and Travis Hunter, he really doesn’t do much.
CP still hasn’t made a single in-home recruiting visit since he got hired, which is something than even Saban would do on the regular.
“I ain’t hard to find” is a catchy phrase, but he also has to search, which seems to be beneath CP.
thegoldenstrand
Well-Known Member
if he played, maybe favorite of coaches brown would have to ride the bench?
Like with Qs about CP favoring SS and caring about his stats, there may be players who resent the fact that the videos are Deion Jr's livelihood and they are constant video participants, like it or not.
JonSergeantMajor
Well-Known Member
Mike Munchak is literally a HOFer and a beast OL Coach and he’s just chilling in Denver not doing **** because he wants to be close to his grandkids.
Why weren’t we after him?!
Why weren’t we after him?!
soundfisher
fusker troll
When you can't create continuity with a team and you lose 100 players in 2 years this is what happens. This is why Sanders approach is doomed to fail from the start and I said that and was ridiculed by hundreds of people on this board. I hate to say it but the coach in Nebraska is actually doing it the right way.
ahoelsken
Well-Known Member
Slow day in the cornfields?
Are we sure they had a current program? Maybe the jersey numbers got confused....
thegoldenstrand
Well-Known Member
What if the line problems last year are more on Coach Prime and Shedeur?
Maybe scheme, Shedeur not getting rid of ball quickly enough, and as bad as it sounds, what if he is not wanting to share the backfield with a legit running game and this is and has been the problem?
Remember the way Prime threw the offensive line under the bus? Yes they looked like a problem, but what if scheme, play calling and refusing to have passing game share prime time with a run game is real problem?
Well four of those lineman are doing just fine elsewhere. The four offensive lineman told to move on are starting elsewhere
CU's starting LT and C in 2023 are starting for Oregon State
The year before Prime arrived Van Wells had a 80.7 pass blocking grade per PFF his sophomore season and he is now listed at 315 pounds, so he may still be bigger and better than Hank is.
CU's starting OG Jack Bailey in 2023 is starting for Northwestern
CU's starting RT Savion Washington in 2023 that along with a few others was told by Khahlil that he was there to take his spot. He seemed to be on the outside looking in all spring and he was not really given a chance to compete for a spot by Loadholt or Shurmur or Prime. He is now starting at RT for Syracuse and doing pretty well. A needed TE Chamon Metayer was shown the door and is now starting for ASU. And what is this garbage of moving Tyler Brown, arguably the fifth best lineman to tackle, and Benson to guard, and leaving Tyler Johnson, one of the top two offensive guards to ride the pine?
It appears talent may have been upgraded, but it was not that bad to begin with. It is the plays drawn up, called, practiced and played that is the problem. It is the play call and design, the pass first and often as only viable option mentality and some of the worst pass play designs... come on those two pass plays to open game and set up to be thrown toward either sideline and behind or at line of scrimage at best and then the pick six sideline pass play were completely innappropriate and destined to fail most of the time. I would argue it looks like they were intended to throw the game to Nebraska, so why were they drawn up and called.. not sure this helped Shedeur, so whoever drew them up.. is suspect in play design and to kill off CU's chances of victory, who would call a shallow far side of field throw against zone from your own 2 yard line and use inexperienced wr to throw it to, giving DB a gift wrapped pick six opportunity. Is more money to be made by assistants throwing games?
With all the Charlie RB run or pass blocking plays, is this on the line as well.. it seems to be more on Shedeur and the play caller. Head shrug. Is Prime trying to lose? He has a decent roster that should be able to win, yet he thru his lack of oversight or maybe worse the way he is directing his coordinators to call games is showing a real ability to grasp defeat from the jaws of victory on each play so called, each wrong scheme so employed.
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Wells and Washington were the two OL I really wanted CU to keep. They did reasonably well. I watched TT/WSU and OU/UH. The problems at CU are schematic and play calling, almost exclusively. All four of those teams run a shotgun based attack, but bring in HBacks TE and mix in the run. All but OU are far less talented and more productive. Willie Fritz is first year and moving the ball. Prime is not showing he belongs at this level.