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Top 5 or 10 NFL QB's All-Time...
- Thread starter DesertDawg526
- Start date
Of course not.... but the PFM between Indy and Den is something spectacular. He needs another SB ring to cement his place, as I said - but for my EYEBALLS test, PFM is near the top
Bradshaw is hard to figure. You can't argue that he won and you can't argue that he had a lot to do with all those wins. The balance is that he had two HOF WRs, a HOF RB, a number of HOF OL, and one of the great defenses of all time.
He has to be talked about, the only question is where does he fit. If you are going to put Montana up there for winning then Bradshaw has to be in the discussion as well.
He did have #80, #87 and TD for a time...
Something that hurt Marino and Elway is that both played in their primes before free agency was prevalent. Because they were so good, they constantly had their teams performing much better than their talent levels. Because of that, they were always drafting low and not getting the talent infusion they needed. Especially with Marino, you saw the team around him constantly getting worse. That was happening with Elway, but then he was fortunate enough at the end that the Broncos became one of the first teams to effectively use the new free agency rules and put a great team around him.
Good point, also couldn't go out and fill roles in FA like now. Example with this years Broncos able to go out and grab Tamme and Dreesen for Manning. Drew Brees getting Sproles to work with the Saints offense.
i mis stated my sentence there. for most of his career.... until the end... when he won the SB's... like montana had. kinda thought i made that clear in the overall post. :smile2:
other than pro bowl WR's. and part of that was having all pro o-linemen. something that JE didn't have during those years.
yeah, you are right. i think vance johnson made it to the pro bowl (and was the only one) one year out of the time denver had the "three amigos". much better than clayton and duper.
you want to tell me that you would take any one of the three amigos over clayton and duper?
BlackNGold
Club Member
#1. Johnny Unitas...
#2. Pick whoever you want.
I agree with the era thing. Unitas played in the days when the receivers got mugged. The 47 straight games with a touchdown pass is something when you consider the era he played. Tough as nails, called all of his own plays. Loved watching him play.
#2. Pick whoever you want.
I agree with the era thing. Unitas played in the days when the receivers got mugged. The 47 straight games with a touchdown pass is something when you consider the era he played. Tough as nails, called all of his own plays. Loved watching him play.
Don't forget his two seasons with the Chiefs. In his late 30s with mediocre offensive talent around him and after suffering injuries that made him a shadow of what he was, Joe got them into the AFC Championship game his first year and got a playoff win in his 2nd year (before retiring). You can talk all you want about Joe and the talent he had with the 49ers. But the first championship he won there was when he didn't have much talent on the offense. And those final years with the Chiefs, he was marching teams to playoff wins despite little help and a bursa sac the size of a grapefruit on his throwing arm. Couldn't throw the ball more than about 25 yards down field and still moved the offense.
BehindEnemyLines
beware the habu
Another name for your list -- Bart Starr. Exceptional passer, called his own plays, and led his team to several championship wins.
Not old enough to remember actually watching Unitas play and having it mean something. Kind of the same when I mentioned Bart Starr but both deserve serious mention based on results on the field. They also had to be tough as nails just to survive in an era when there were no skirts for the QB.
Another guy who never had a chance to build stats since he sometimes only threw 7-8 passes a game but who was a big time winner was Bob Griese. Not saying he belongs in the elite but he does deserve some recognition as a leader and a winner who could get it done when he was asked to.
Quit disputing my dislike of Montana with possibly relevant information from his time with the Chiefs!
In all seriousness, he was good but I just don't think he's top 3 or whatever I've seen some "experts" call him (not necessarily talking about this thread). Put some other of the top QBs in the 49er system during those years, and I think you see at least similar results if not better.
somebody
Well-Known Member
He should have had Carl Pickens, but Reeves (no friend of his HOF QB in his play-calling, either) drafted Elway's backup (the great Tommy Maddox) instead of creating what would have been one of the best QB/WR tandems in NFL history.
kalbuff
New Member
ESPN the other day had a show highlighting the top ten Montana games. Throughout the show people like Madden and such constantly referred to Montana as the best they ever saw, by far. I don't think it is reasonable to argue he was not at least among the top three of all time given all the information. Unitas is in the conversation because he dominated in an earlier era. The latter day Elway is in the conversation but not the early Elway (I think Bradshaw's career is similar in many ways). But you cannot validly claim Montana is among the best ever.
BlackNGold
Club Member
It is fun talking about QBs but it really brings home how old I have gotten. I know that everyone looks at the QBs that played while they have been watching football and most of those eras started after I started watching... and then I think of when I first started working and the older guys would talk about great QBs and they would talk about guys I had never seen play - Bobby Layne, Otto Graham, Sammy Baugh, Norm Van Brocklin. It brings home to me that there are great QBs in every era.
Unitas and Bart Starr the big standouts when I was young with Y.A. Tittle reaching the end of his career, Len Dawson, John Hadl and John Brodie were also good QBs. Then came Joe Namoth, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts, Kenny Stabler, followed by Montana, Elway, Kelly, Marino, Moon. Then you had Young, Farve, Aikman. Now you are in the modern era with P. Manning, Brady, E. Manning, Brees, and Rivers.
The game evolves so it is tough to compare statistics between eras. I had the most fun watching Unitas (I just loved the way the game was played in that era). Elway and Marino were great to watch. I do not watch as much NFL anymore but when I do there is a lot of talent playing the QB position.
Unitas and Bart Starr the big standouts when I was young with Y.A. Tittle reaching the end of his career, Len Dawson, John Hadl and John Brodie were also good QBs. Then came Joe Namoth, Roger Staubach, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Fouts, Kenny Stabler, followed by Montana, Elway, Kelly, Marino, Moon. Then you had Young, Farve, Aikman. Now you are in the modern era with P. Manning, Brady, E. Manning, Brees, and Rivers.
The game evolves so it is tough to compare statistics between eras. I had the most fun watching Unitas (I just loved the way the game was played in that era). Elway and Marino were great to watch. I do not watch as much NFL anymore but when I do there is a lot of talent playing the QB position.
Sorry but I really don't put much stock into anything John Madden says. And I still stick with the fact that Montana had an offensive innovator as his HC in Bill Walsh and serious offensive talent that surrounded him. Look at what Steve Young did in the same offense with some of the same players as Montana had. A huge number of the highly thought of QBs would have thrived in the environment that Montana got to play in.
kalbuff
New Member
It does not appear you have much of an objective view on this subject.
Because I'm a Dallas Cowboy fan! Plus, his career completion % was about 52% and his career QB rating was about 70. He had a great team with a great, great defense.
I don't think anyone really has an objective view when this argument comes up. I know I don't. I can twist and turn any argument into reasons why my boy Marino was the best ever. It is what it is. There's a select group of QBs that are all in contention for the top spot and that's probably how it should be.
Walter White
Member
1. Tebow
2. Vince Young
3. Eric Crouch
4. Charlie Ward
5. Tommy Frazier
6. Jamelle Holieway
7. Darian Hagan
2. Vince Young
3. Eric Crouch
4. Charlie Ward
5. Tommy Frazier
6. Jamelle Holieway
7. Darian Hagan
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