because he is clearly so young that he has no frame of reference for the differences between football in 1971 and football in 2001.
waste of time, trying to help those who cannot help themselves...
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Top 5 Quarterbacks Ever At C.U.
- Thread starter MattThompson
- Start date
because he is clearly so young that he has no frame of reference for the differences between football in 1971 and football in 2001.
waste of time, trying to help those who cannot help themselves...
dyemeduke
Well-Known Member
?!?!?! NUMBERS?! Come on man...so that's why you put Klatt over AUNESE and others? I know you're never going to have a list that everyone agrees with, but so far, you're hitting 0-3 with your WR and RB lists having egregious omissions. This one...I guess I understand the list, but...whatever...I disagree.
I personally did not know that Anderson played that much at QB. I thought he was primariliy a TB. There's got to be some decent QB from the 70s and 60s, right? We finished #3 in I think '71, so who QB'd that team?
I do like that Moschetti is on the team as well. He is one of my all-time faves, because he just played with a lot of heart.
Junction
Club Member
All of the quarterbacks since 1989 have torn it up in comparison to guys like Anderson and Dowler? I liked Moschetti, I liked Klatt, but to let the numbers lead you to a conclusion that they were such greats that those older QBs just don't measure up is just wrong. That all-century team was based on a poll of well over 1,000 fans - doesn't that give it some validity in your eyes?
Football isn't the same game now that it was when Dowler played. The QB position was different then. And just because it didn't let him rack up the yards Klatt or Moschetti did does not make him a lesser QB.
Maybe this will give you a better perspective... Zac Taylor is the fuskers all-time #1 QB, based on the numbers. Turner Gill is #6. Which one do you suppose belongs on a list of their top 5 all-time QBs? :huh:
he's probably not old enough to know who turner gill is, man.
so, clearly, ZAC TAYLOR is teh gwaytest player evaaaaaaaaaaaaar at fusker u.
Zac Taylor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Tommie Frazier.:lol:
Back up Anderson being on your list of 4. I'd love to hear the reasons why.
A buddy of mine just sent me an email saying "none of these chumps could hold Tommy Frazier's jockstrap" reaction?
is he talking about other fusker qbs or CU qbs?
frazier was, imho, the best fusker qb ever, just ahead of turner gill.
hagan and frazier were the top option qbs ever to play the game, imho... ou's jamelle holloway probably deserves an honorable mention in the option qb category, too...
Junction-
I don't compile my list strictly from the numbers; like I said, I voted for Hagan (he doesn't have the best numbers). They are a huge factor though. As far as the century list, I don't know who they polled, for all I know it could have been 1,000 drunk CU students, so I give it the validity for the timwe it was taken. I would love to see a NEW all century vote taken; that would decide it all. Who is Turner Gil?
I don't compile my list strictly from the numbers; like I said, I voted for Hagan (he doesn't have the best numbers). They are a huge factor though. As far as the century list, I don't know who they polled, for all I know it could have been 1,000 drunk CU students, so I give it the validity for the timwe it was taken. I would love to see a NEW all century vote taken; that would decide it all. Who is Turner Gil?
He is a NU fan, he was talking about my list.
then he is ****ed in the head. if you compiled a legit list of true option qbs, hagan and frazier would both be on it. dual threat guys like kordell aren't quite the same because they weren't running the option.
the top 4 option qbs of all time, regardless of school? that's tough, but i think you could make a case (in no particular order) for:
hagan
frazier
holloway
gill
Why the **** wasn't Craig ****ing Ochs on the list? :smile2:
Junction
Club Member
It seems like the numbers are far too huge a factor. They, along with a lack of familiarity with football history prior to the last 80s, are leading you to some very questionable conclusions. We've already covered the problems with the WR list, and to say that very average QBs like Klatt and Moschetti so clearly outclass quarterbacks from an earlier era, based on the numbers, that there is no need for serious debate, just shows you are relying on them far too much. By that measure a QB in a passing offense is always going to be considered better than a QB in a running program, unless you are familiar enough with them to adjust for the difference (Hagan).
Turner Gill was probably the greatest fusker QB in history until the day Tommie Frazier hit the field. Led them to the verge of a national title until Dr. Tom decided to go for two and the win when trailing Miami by one. But he played in a rushing offense, so the numbers would tell you he was far less of a QB than Zac Taylor.
Oline Oline Oline can make an average guy look good, when they stay on sides anyway :lol:
Darian3Hagan
'89 Player of the Year
JimmyBuff
Well-Known Member
Kordell choked the 93 game in Folsom no doubt, but I have a hard time saying he "choked" the 94 game when the game was basically over in the 1st half.. He played bad(just like the rest of the offense) but that doesn't mean he "choked"..
These polls seem to be too driven by stats. Basically seeing the modern players.
Bobby Anderson twice a 1st team All Big 8 guy and a 1st team All American. He and Hagan are the only players in CU history with over 2,000 both passing and rushing. Finally, he's a member of the all-time Big 8 team. I think it's pretty easy to justify him in the top 5.
Bobby Anderson twice a 1st team All Big 8 guy and a 1st team All American. He and Hagan are the only players in CU history with over 2,000 both passing and rushing. Finally, he's a member of the all-time Big 8 team. I think it's pretty easy to justify him in the top 5.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
Bobby Anderson should be in there.
These polls should be relabled as top 5 (enter position) in the recent era. Basing comparisons on stats would mean in the pros that Bart Starr, Johnny Unitas, Y.A. Tittle, etc. should not be mentioned at QB, running backs who played in the 12 game season era gets skipped over, WRs prior to the pinball era should not even bother to show up in a discussion.
Sack statistics were not kept prior to the 80's by the league and prior to the 70's by most teams. That means that Deacon Jones, Willie Davis, Carl Eller can't be any good because they don't have stats and wouldn't anyways because they played in an era where teams didn't pass near as much.
I don't have a problem with the polls as a discussion starter but to exclude guys from prior eras because they didn't play in an era that is statistic heavy and are out of a lot of peoples memories is simply ridiculous.
Sack statistics were not kept prior to the 80's by the league and prior to the 70's by most teams. That means that Deacon Jones, Willie Davis, Carl Eller can't be any good because they don't have stats and wouldn't anyways because they played in an era where teams didn't pass near as much.
I don't have a problem with the polls as a discussion starter but to exclude guys from prior eras because they didn't play in an era that is statistic heavy and are out of a lot of peoples memories is simply ridiculous.
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I will be doing this for every position, trust me there will be older guys involved in the lists to come. I don't agree that guys like Bobby Anderson deserve to be on the list and I feel like I could debate that conclusion very well. I'm 30 years old for anyone who cares to know, young yes, but educated on Buff history. My Dad, who is 56, has been an avid fan his entire life, he helps lend an older opinion.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
Swap Moschetti for Anderson.
My $0.02 for the list: check out Plati's media guide and start with guys who were All-American or All-Big 7,8 or 12 when judging a position. That way, you'll have all the guys who were considered top guys by the media and/or coaches at the time they played. Plus, if a Buff was put on a conference All-Decade or All-Time team, he should pretty much automatically be considered Top 5 for his position in CU history.
Sexton Hardcastle
Club Member
Boyd Dowler was one hell of a player for us as well. He was apart of the Packer Dynasty in the 60's.
By your reasoning here, which is, because someone was solely voted onto a list, they now deserve to be on mine? That doesn't make any rational sense at all. That's like saying, just because George Bush was voted into office, he was the best choice for president. Wrong would be the answer to that statement. Just FYI, I do use Plati's media guide in making up my lists.
Are you like 70 years old? Who the hell as ever heard of that guy? Call me young, but I've never even heard of him, and I know my football history.
Hey, it's your list. But you're wrong about my opinion being irrational. You may discount other voters, but taking them into consideration isn't irrational especially when we're talking about players from eras that you did not get to see live or on video.
Is it irrational to say that the 1991 team automatically belongs on any top 5 Buffs team because it was voted National Champion? That Rashaan Salaam always belongs on any top 5 CU RBs list by virtue of the fact that he was voted the winner of the Heisman Trophy? Those accolades and others don't necessarily make for an automatic best team or best player, but imo they should at least warrant being part of the conversation.
At quarterback, CU has had 4 All-Americans in its history:
Bobby Anderson
Darian Hagan
Kordell Stewart
Koy Detmer
CU has had the following QBs make All-Conference 1st teams in its history:
Boyd Dowler (1958 All-Big 7)
Gale Weidner (1961 All-Big 8)
Bobby Anderson (1968 & 1969 All-Big 8)
Darian Hagan (1989 & 1990 All-Big 8)
Kordell Stewart (1994 All-Big 8)
Koy Detmer (1996 All-Big 12)
Finally, at QB CU has 1 player in the College Football Hall of Fame:
Bobby Anderson (Inducted in 2006)
If it were my list, I'd take Hagan, Anderson, Stewart, Detmer and Klatt. Dowler and Weidner I discount since they were before the modern era (prior to college football being integrated, among other things). Klatt I add because he is all over the CU record books and he was named team MVP in 2003 and 2005.
Once again, it's your list, so do what you want. But I think you're losing credibility when you can't admit that Bobby Anderson was an oversite (or lay out your rationale for choosing a Moschetti or Klatt over him).
I gave you a good rep just for laying out your case, well done. I could definitely lay out my entire take, but honestly I don't have the time to do it on here. Thanks for the imput though, I appreciate it.